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Random Thoughts on SuperCharging an S85 after a 1300-mile roadtrip

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I was there last Friday 9/6. Yes, it's under construction. Looks to me that they are adding a sixth station.
Construction guys were cool. They opened stalls when a line formed. Only two stalls open when I got there.

Thanks for the info and the pics. Glad to hear they are improving things there. Although it would be nice if they also figured out how to keep the bathrooms open 24/7 and installed a vending machine or two nearby.
 
Great writeup and funny insights. My experience going from Bay area to Legoland was similar. It does take longer, but we rolled with it and enjoyed it.

Obsessive checking of charge status is a good thing. At Tejon Ranch it was charging up nicely but at some point stopped. It showed 300 some volts but zero amps and zero mph. Had to switch to a different stall and gave Tesla a heads up. That wasted about 15-30 minutes.

We stayed at a hotel with charging, but it was taken by a plug in prius. All Night. So we had to go to Hawthorne and waste an hour.

On the way back we visited a friend in Santa Barbara. I didn't think we would make it to Buellton so went to the Goleta Rabobank which was near my friend's work. There was a Leaf plugged in to the charger, but luckily 1) he was done and 2) the parking spot next to him in front of the charger was open. So I left a nice note explaining that I unplugged him because he was done and I pulled 70 amps. One of the few times I really needed the twin chargers, but it was worth it because after dinner we didn't have to stop at another supercharger and instead went straight to Paso Robles and plugged in at the Oaks Hotel (owner saved a spot for me).

My conclusion - roadtrips are very dependent on planning and luck. We will have charger-availability-anxiety for a long time, and it will get worse as more EVs get on the road. It's still worth it in my mind to drive in the comfort of a Model S.
 
I've done the north-south SC route several times. While I didn't experience anything close to your issues or your time-lag relative to ICE driving, I think your post is very illustrative. My take-aways:

• We found that driving a Model S on I-5 in the State of California takes nearly twice as long to get from your starting point to your destination. What is normally a ~7-hour journey in an ICE takes over 12 hours.
I'm so glad you have a disclaimer on the bottom of your post since this has the making of a Jalopnik hit-piece headline.


• The Superchargers vary WILDLY in terms of rate of charge. Seems to have nothing to do with whether cars are there or not. At Fremont, I was getting something like 90-140mph. At Tejon Pass on the northbound leg, we got ~313mph (awesome!). But on Tejon on the way home, we got ~100 and I think it inched up to 140 finally, after the car next to us left. Harris was okay on the north journey, but so-so on the south, even though we were the only car there.
I've experienced the Harris Ranch "slow-charge with no one there but me". I switched to another station and got full speed. Perhaps it's heat related. Tesla needs to fix this. But really, the issue I have is the guessing game we play when there's more than one car charging. In Buellton, I was swapping spots trying to figure out the "good" pairing. C'mon Tesla, just put a big green LED on a station that's got full power and yellow if it's paired with one in use.


• Travel is essentially a completely different experience in a Model S versus an ICE because of these long long waits at SuperCharger locations.
Indeed. Tesla needs to communicate current SC status to all the SC capable cars. That's why the 3G connectivity is there! Or, least make it part of the smartphone app. You never should have been blindsided by the Hawthorne charger wait. In fact, my trips on the 5 and 101 would be shorter if I know SC status. I might charge longer at Tejon and skip Harris or more at Harris and skip Gilroy. But, because I don't know for sure what the situation is down the road I stop unnecessarily and I spend more time charging and waiting.


• When you get to a geographical area beyond reach of a SuperCharger, I find that one's entire existence focuses on your car and how and where you are going to keep it charged. It is stressful. You discover that people and places you intended to visit are located on roads that are HILLY, and HILLS are enemies, and take you into Orange Zones (you drain the battery) and never enough Green Zones (regen the battery). I am convinced the earth is more uphill than downhill, when it should, in theory, be exactly 50-50 if you think about it. Every waking moment during our trip out beyond SuperChargers was spent thinking about charge.
It gets better with practice. I've learned to aim my energy use at around 290 Wh/mi and I get pretty close to rated miles. Then I can relax.


• Chargepoint was a nightmare. 19mph. I don't own a card, so I had to call their 800-number, in noisy city garages in strange cities, lung-choking exhaust from ICEs filling the garage while I waited for a Chargepoint person to come on the line and explain how to set me up to use the charger.
Hence, the awesomeness of the Superchargers. Try, 14mph at a 208V Blink.


Anyways. SuperCharging is thrilling, exciting, living in the future. But also living right out on the bleeding edge when it comes to long-distance travel.

I have revised my thinking about long trips from, say, San Diego to, say, Vancouver. Now I think, oh, it'll happen, and we'll prolly do it, but we will expect more hotel stays, and longer delays than if it were an ICE journey. Driving a Model S long-distance is ideal for folks who believe the journey to and from the destination is the reward, and long journeys in a Model S are adventures. if you're adventurous, what are you waiting for? Go for it. Just leave a lot of time, and keep your calendar wide open.
People are amazed when I tell them I just drove 360 mi in my electric car. But, yeah it is a bit pioneering still. Much more fun than a 6 hour 360 mi trip in my Volvo. Glad you made it and retained some humor about the whole thing. I think you make several good points and I hope Tesla is listening.
 
Seeing into our future as we look westward...

We east coasters can not yet imagine a two our SC backup. For us, we are still thrilled to see another Model S aside us as we charge, and the conversation is boisterous and amicable. I feel, at once, the potential for future road trip frustration, and moreso the thrill - THRILL - that in 12 months we have gone from a promise of Superchargers, to an active reality amiss with suggestions and quirks and incredibly frequent usage. How cool.

I love the story as you tell it, and can relate (See East Coast Supercharger Road Trip thread from April), but honestly was it that difficult? Nothing like driving on sunshine...
 
There is a secret San Diego SuperCharger going in -- to someone's home. It's kind of the talk of the town to those who've heard about it. I found that even the folks at the San Rafael Tesla Service Center, 500+ miles north, knew about it.

I think it's going into Carlsbad or somewhere else in North County (I would've thought Rancho Santa Fe). Rumored price for this personal SC: $500,000.

Seems kind of silly to me, but I guess for the gazillionaire who has everything except a personal SuperCharger, what's $500,000?

I can tell you that there is currently no residential Supercharging project going on in or near San Diego. I did have a discussion with the local Service folks about it because someone had asked. But when I went and gathered information and came back the request was withdrawn. Not sure where the $500K answer came from since no quotations or estimates were ever made from the utility side. It's just not practical. Imagine what it would take to install an additional 120kW of three-phase capability in a residential setting where there is no native three-phase power. So we can stop the rumor and mystery about it...
 
OT and all, but how does that work Randy? Are there separate distribution lines for residential and commercial power typically? ie. in a suburban neighborhood, would all the distribution lines be single phase only? No way to get three phase commercial from a 12 kV residential distribution line? (Sorry if my terminology isn't correct, I know very little about this).
 
I'm planning a Las Vegas to Albuquerque trip in my MS in Nov and will have to do it without any SC's.

Starting the RV park charging plan now. Anyone with any ADVICE would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I notice you're planning your trip for November; be aware that many RV parks close for the winter season, so if you're planning on using them to charge you may be out of luck. If you know where you're planning to stop, I would inquire ahead of time as to whether their services are seasonal or not. Happy trails!

Thanks for the info and the pics. Glad to hear they are improving things there. Although it would be nice if they also figured out how to keep the bathrooms open 24/7 and installed a vending machine or two nearby.

The bathrooms at a rest stop (and the rest stop itself) are not open 24/7?! Is there at least a decent-sized bush nearby? :wink:

Here's a Blink on the Blink. Found it in a grocery store parking lot in San Rafael. This was the CHADEMO machine. It was not confidence building to discover that they had a Microsoft Windows software error on their big screen.

Gods! That looks like a Windows 98 error screen! No wonder they're so low power; they've got to bring it in from the stone age!

The San Rafael parking garage free ChargePoint was not 19mph but 16mph. I misremembered. 16 was the very best I got out of it. We walked to a restaurant in San Rafael. Nearly 2 hours later, it had added, oh, 30 miles of charge. Stress.
This is why I go out of my way to scoff at any business/organization that puts in a ChargePoint charger. :rolleyes: Just put up a 110V plug, guys, and save yourselves a LOT of money.
 
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OT and all, but how does that work Randy? Are there separate distribution lines for residential and commercial power typically? ie. in a suburban neighborhood, would all the distribution lines be single phase only? No way to get three phase commercial from a 12 kV residential distribution line? (Sorry if my terminology isn't correct, I know very little about this).

There is nothing magical about 3 phase power. In a residential setting, typically only 1 phase is extended down the street, then either underground or utility pole mounted transformers are fed from it, which generates 240V that is center tapped (the center tap is the neutral/ground).

If you live on a Main Street, you might have 3 phase power running right by your house, I do, as I live on a Main Street in my town. Even with the lines running by your property, they might not be able to deliver to you a 500KVA service [because the high voltage feeders might not have the availble capacity] (you would need to have an electrician run dual 4" conduit from the pole to your pad you pour on your property for the utility to install the high voltage to 277/480V transformer, dual conduits is in case the first set of cables burns up in a fire). This is an expensive proposition, the materials and connectors are expensive, a ground grid has to be installed around the transformer, heavy wiring runs from the low voltage side (277/480V) to the SuperCharger. It's not really practical in a residential setting.

On topic, I find it amusing that you Californians are complaining about lines at SuperChargers.. We hardly have any yet here, on the right coast. 2 sites in Connecticut, 1 in Delaware, 3 or so in Florida. We can't even travel up and down I95 yet via SuperChargers. The furthest I've taken my Model S is Mt Washington in NH, 180 miles away. Had to stay at an RV camp overnight to recharge on a 14-50... There is one 70A EVSE at the Mt Washington Auto Road, doesn't help when we had 15 Model S's all wanting to charge. CA is way ahead of the rest of the country, is my point, so try to have less attitude and enjoy what you have, we have far less as does most of the country. BTW, I have never used a SuperCharger yet, owned my Model S since mid January, over 8,000 miles on it... I do have dual chargers though, and built my own 75A EVSE I use at home.
 
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Good read, Brian. Still waiting to take that long roadtrip south (it has been a busy summer in and around home) and experience SCs beyond Fremont and Gilroy.

The only regret that I do have with my entire Model S purchase is not getting the twin chargers back when they were a relatively affordable (didn't seem so at the time :)) $1,500.

The $3,600 post-delivery install now seems stiff and according to folks at Tesla Burlingame, quite a labor-intensive and intrusive task - they literally would have to take the back seat assembly apart to get to the charger bay etc.
 
• The San Rafael parking garage free ChargePoint was not 19mph but 16mph. I misremembered. 16 was the very best I got out of it. We walked to a restaurant in San Rafael. Nearly 2 hours later, it had added, oh, 30 miles of charge. Stress.

• In Novato near what must be one of the world's largest Whole Foods Markets we found a church that had a free Chargepoint station out front. I think this one I got 19mph at... we charged for a few minutes but it was ruining our stay so we bailed out....View attachment 30335

Ok, next time, just ask before you make another road trip up to the Bay Area! You could have charged at the Tesla San Rafael service center (probably within a stone's throw of where you were charging) and used the HPWC that is free and available 24/7. Assuming you have twin chargers, you'd be looking at 50+mph of charge. You could also avail yourselves of the HPWCs at the Burlingame Tesla service center just next to SFO. There are 4 HPWCs on the outside, 24/7 and free.

Of course all of this assumes that you have twin chargers. BTW, what version firmware were you using to get 330 mph? I didn't think that was possible with 4.5 so are you on 5.0?
 
While more high-current J1772 can add 50-70 miles on a road trip during lunch stops, 30A J1772 is plenty to get a full charge overnight at a motel. I suggest that we should advocate for more J1772 motel deployment every time we stay in a motel.

This is a link to an independent Google map of motels with charging. You can submit more locations as you discover them.

http://dcubed.com/evmap/

Great Map. I'm nearing the end of my 2800 mile road trip and the challenge has been to determine if a charge station is in or near a hotel. Only thing to consider is that, if your not total empty, 30 amps ( 14 mph - 18 mph )may not get you a full charge by morning depending on when you get in and want to leave. I've tended to drive faster ( & enjoy ) just before my destination knowing I'll have full range in the morning.
 
I'm planning a Las Vegas to Albuquerque trip in my MS in Nov and will have to do it without any SC's.

Starting the RV park charging plan now. Anyone with any ADVICE would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Take a look at my thread "Model S Western US Tour". There are some great stops between LV and Albq! Don't skip Grand Canyon Trailer Village! They don't charge for the charge.
 
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This is why I go out of my way to scoff at any business/organization that puts in a ChargePoint charger. :rolleyes: Just put up a 110V plug, guys, and save yourselves a LOT of money.

I strongly disagree with this. It's not about getting a 2 hour charge at 30A. In my case, it's about driving 170 miles to Boston, going to the office for the day (10 hours) and being able to drive home. Superchargers for continuing the road trip, Level 2 chargers for overnight/all day charging.
 
I strongly disagree with this. It's not about getting a 2 hour charge at 30A. In my case, it's about driving 170 miles to Boston, going to the office for the day (10 hours) and being able to drive home. Superchargers for continuing the road trip, Level 2 chargers for overnight/all day charging.

I agree, also with a Chargepoint setup, a company can limit the charging to just employees, monitor usage/cost etc. They can even charge a nominal fee to offset any "hey why are they getting free electricity and I'm not" sentiment from fellow employees
 
Yes 5.0 firmware.

Perhaps you didn't read my original post. I don't have twin chargers, and I eventually discovered there was a San Rafael Tesla Service Center, and as soon as I learned that, I never went anywhere else for charging -- even though I was only getting half of what the HPWC was capable of delivering. It was still double what anywhere else in town was delivering.

Sorry, I obviously missed that part of your original post about not having dual chargers. And I also had a very positive experience with the staff at the San Rafael service center and posted about it. At the time I met them, they hadn't yet installed the HPWC for the MS on the exterior of the building but had the charger for the Roadster. They hooked up the adapter and then showed me around the building and all of the cars that were awaiting delivery. It was a very enjoyable 50 minute pitstop.

There was another thread a few months ago railing against anyone who installed dual chargers and saying it was a total waste of money and you'd never use them in the wild. I don't recall the poster, but he seems to stay quiet on threads like this.
 
There was another thread a few months ago railing against anyone who installed dual chargers and saying it was a total waste of money and you'd never use them in the wild. I don't recall the poster, but he seems to stay quiet on threads like this.
I don't think that poster was me (I try not to "rail" against people with different opinions), but I have at times mentioned that I opted against dual chargers as at the time I did my "research" it seemed that there were very few >40A charging opportunities in the wild.
And by now I am not even saying that anymore as it seems more and more are becoming available (and therefore, I have been wrong)...
 
There was another thread a few months ago railing against anyone who installed dual chargers and saying it was a total waste of money and you'd never use them in the wild. I don't recall the poster, but he seems to stay quiet on threads like this.
I've consistently said dual chargers is a waste of money and I still think that's true. Whether I'm the person you were thinking of, I don't know. "Railing" would be a bit strong of a term. As for being quiet, all that was said before is still true. I don't see anything as having changed.

Fundamentally, I still think folks will be using superchargers or taking an extended stay in a location where a single charger is sufficient. For some portion of people, that won't be true, but I think it's a very small percentage. For anyone else, I think paying for that extra charger is paying an exorbitant cost for the time saved. As Superchargers become even more prevalent, I've said before and still believe dual chargers will become even less useful than they are now.

If you're in that niche of folks that aren't going where SC's will service, and want to make road trips, and your time is rather valuable, but not so incredibly valuable that it'd make more sense to fly. Well, then by all means, dual chargers are a good investment :)
 
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Indeed, electric car driving means slowing down. My planned trip to Michigan has a maximum of 6 hours of driving a day -- more of a 1:2 driving to charging ratio, maybe even 1:3. Of course there are no Superchargers along the route.

Canada is covered with 70A chargers... Washington State is beginning to get blanketed with high amp J1772's by Sun Country Highway. I think that these will only continue to spread. Ordering a Model S without dual chargers is crazy (unless you never plan on going on any sort of roadtrip).

The 72 amp CS-90s from Sun Country Highway are spreading through upstate NY as well as Washington State. Can Michigan be far behind? :wink:

Anyway, my entire road trip from upstate NY to West Michigan is premised on these 72-amp chargers. They are being deployed a lot faster than Tesla's Superchargers. You want twin chargers. As others have said before, Tesla should not bundle the HPWC with the twin chargers; you need the twin chargers, but the HPWC is useless for most people. I kind of expect a large aftermarket of cheap HPWCs due to the bundling.

- - - Updated - - -

A 30A j1772, would take >17 hours to fully charge an 85kWh battery FWIW. Not really adequate even for hotels IMO.
No, not really adequate even for hotels. For "sleeping on the road" for one night on a trip, nothing less than 70 amps will do. But better than nothing. I figured out that if I was planning to stay in a town for several days, then it works out better to have a 20 amp at a hotel, than it does to have a 72 amp which is *not* at a hotel. Charging overnight alleviates the delays involved.

It boggles my mind how many low-amperage chargers there are in places other than hotels -- they're not very useful. Having no Superchargers on the route, I have planned my trip around (1) Sun Country Highway's map of CS-90 chargers (it's the only charging map which consistently lists model and thus amperage), and (2) hotels with on-side charging which I can reserve. All other public chargers are good for nothing more than minor top-ups, though I'm planning to route past them in case I'm getting terrible mileage.