Range anxiety.......I don't want the stress

[Canuck]

People can do what they want, I am just saying that for me I do not see the need to worry about it, I charge to 100% and let the car do its thing - and do not see any range or battery capacity loss. (small sample size - just my car).

Well that's odd because even if you don't charge to 100% you will see range and battery capacity loss. That't just the nature of a lithium ion battery. None will retain full capacity over time and use. This is aside from the scientifically proven fact that lower charge voltages prolong battery life (see the link below).

As for charging to 100%. That's totally fine in an EV. The factor that makes a battery age quicker is letting it sit at 100% for a long time.

That's not true according to the science. Sitting at 100% is, of course, worse than charging to 100% and driving right away (and I wouldn't worry about doing that whenever full range is needed), but if you understand how the cathode works and the ion movement between the positive and negative electrodes, you will understand that there's no issue that a lithium ion battery degrades less, and thus lasts longer, when kept cycling around the mid-range state of charge. That's why we have a "Daily Driving" range on our slider in first place. In the old days, just trying to charge to 100% gave a battery health warning but Tesla dumped that when the Nissan Leaf and others got hit with a lower EPA range for doing a similar warning.

If you want understand the science (and not unsubstantiated claims) you can read about it here:

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

"What can the User Do?
Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of lithium-ion batteries. The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. Battery packs do not die suddenly, but the runtime gradually shortens as the capacity fades. Lower charge voltages prolong battery life and electric vehicles and satellites take advantage of this. Similar provisions could also be made for consumer devices, but these are seldom offered; planned obsolescence takes care of this."

 

[Darryl]

Well I mentioned this in a similar thread, but as someone who's never owned an EV I was surprised to hear recently that you're not supposed to charge your batteries to 100%, rather no more than 90% for day to day stuff and that there's a slider bar in current Tesla's to set the max percent. They say 100% is fine for occasional use but that means the normal recommended max on 200 miles would be 180. Has me rethinking whether to stay with the "base" battery when the configuration pages open up. We'lll see what the price difference is.

I will add some more anxiety it is best not to charge on-a-day basis no more than 80% as it decreases the life of the battery. It takes just as long to charge the first 80% as it does to charge the last 20%. If you need to charge it to 90-95% for the occasional long trip it is ok but just not every day.

As there are more and more chargers put into place both superchargers as well destination chargers and as people get use to charging, the level of anxiety will decrease. I think the majority of Model 3 purchasers will opt to purchase larger batteries. As they make more efficient batteries which are cheaper and which charge faster it will also reduce anxiety. To get a Model 3 to the 200 mile range it would probably take less than a 45kWh battery pack but it looks like based on the call today the probably be putting in a 50kWh for the base and a 65 kWh for the longer range and performance models. This will give more than the promised 200' probably around 225 and probably close to 300 for the larger battery. You could always on your way up take a 15-20 minute break and stop at a supercharger and get it back to the 80% level. That's all it takes to get to the 80% level if you are at at supercharger. If you are charging at a home or at a Tesla Destination charger with a 100 amp circuit and have a the 72 Amp charger option in your car you get about 45 miles per hour of charge. A little more than half that if you are on a 50amp charger.

 

[Chopr147]

"I believe that calculator assumes you are making a round-trip so a 147 miles one way would be 294 miles and would require a recharge mid-trip ".

It might be. Though it gives an A to B trip and START and END. Does not say round trip but.......

 

[mikes_fsd]

My entire point here was to say: "I didn't buy an EV to dick around with how much to charge the battery"
and so far after 20k miles, I do not think I need to start. Time will tell.
I've read the science, and have no qualms with it. But I also believe (maybe naively) that battery management has improved considerably in EV's.

 

[Jeff N]

"I believe that calculator assumes you are making a round-trip so a 147 miles one way would be 294 miles and would require a recharge mid-trip ".

It might be. Though it gives an A to B trip and START and END. Does not say round trip but.......

I verified that it assumes a round-trip.

I entered my start location as Fresno, CA and the destination as Stockton, CA. It told me I needed a charge during the trip. The only reasonable way to make that trip is a direct line on CA-99 through the flat Central Valley and the distance is 127 miles according to Google Maps. Going one-way would clearly not require a charge.

 

[gregincal]

I will add some more anxiety it is best not to charge on-a-day basis no more than 80% as it decreases the life of the battery. It takes just as long to charge the first 80% as it does to charge the last 20%. If you need to charge it to 90-95% for the occasional long trip it is ok but just not every day.

Why do you say 90-95%? If you need to charge to 100%, then charge to 100%! It's not like charging to 100% is some death knell that's way worse than charging to 95%. If you're going on a longer trip once in a while, just charge it to 100% to be safe. Also, the charging stats you talk about are at superchargers. At superchargers it's definitely faster to just charge to 80% and stop at another supercharger then try and charge higher. But if you're going on a road trip, charge to 100% before leaving home.

 

[Chopr147]

Not too long ago draining a battery to just about 0% was a good thing. Re-charge and the battery lasted longer. Now, I shouldn't charge to 100%? I will have to play with it when I get the car but assumed I would be fully charging it overnight. I'm now hearing that may not be a good thing?

 

[gregincal]

Not too long ago draining a battery to just about 0% was a good thing. Re-charge and the battery lasted longer. Now, I shouldn't charge to 100%? I will have to play with it when I get the car but assumed I would be fully charging it overnight. I'm now hearing that may not be a good thing?

Again, how far do you need to drive on a daily basis? For most people there is no need to charge it to 100% except occasionally.

 

[garsh]

Not too long ago draining a battery to just about 0% was a good thing. Re-charge and the battery lasted longer.

Yes, that was when NiCd was the rechargeable battery of choice. If you didn't discharge them regularly, they developed "memory" and would hold less capacity.

Your standard lead-acid battery prefers to be fully charged as much as possible. It doesn't like being drained. This is why you keep your car battery charged all the time, otherwise that Die-Hard will die.

Lithium-ion batteries however, prefer to live in the middle. You can charge them to 100%, but don't leave them 100% charged for very long. Likewise, don't leave them completely drained for very long.

I will have to play with it when I get the car but assumed I would be fully charging it overnight. I'm now hearing that may not be a good thing?

Just charge to 80% or 90% overnight. Unless you need the full 100% range, then make sure it finishes charging right before you leave.

 

[Big-T]

Yes, that was when NiCd was the rechargeable battery of choice. If you didn't discharge them regularly, they developed "memory" and would hold less capacity.

Your standard lead-acid battery prefers to be fully charged as much as possible. It doesn't like being drained. This is why you keep your car battery charged all the time, otherwise that Die-Hard will die.

Lithium-ion batteries however, prefer to live in the middle. You can charge them to 100%, but don't leave them 100% charged for very long. Likewise, don't leave them completely drained for very long.
Just charge to 80% or 90% overnight. Unless you need the full 100% range, then make sure it finishes charging right before you leave.

I think this is going to be a big surprise to the majority of the folks who signed up as I/we have never used an EV before. When I fill up the gas tank I fill it to 100% and I get it down to pretty low before I fill it.

Sure, I'll deal with this new way of doing things, I understand it's not "necessary" to charge to 100% for daily use but with that logic it's not "necessary" to fill my gas tank either I can just fill it to 80% and top it off on my way home each day that only takes a couple minutes, there's about 5 I pass on the way to-and from work every day.

We'll all deal with it, it's just one of the numerous "oh that was unexpected" things I'm finding out....but thats exactly why Im on the forums in the first place, the majority of reservation holders though are not. They'll figure this out only after they get the car.

 

[deonb]

Well I mentioned this in a similar thread, but as someone who's never owned an EV I was surprised to hear recently that you're not supposed to charge your batteries to 100%, rather no more than 90% for day to day stuff and that there's a slider bar in current Tesla's to set the max percent. They say 100% is fine for occasional use but that means the normal recommended max on 200 miles would be 180. Has me rethinking whether to stay with the "base" battery when the configuration pages open up. We'lll see what the price difference is.

You frequently drive 200 miles per day? Or you just want to have that reserve "in case"?

I live just across the lake from you, and I've stopped bothering even to charge to 90%. I now only charge to 60% (about 150 miles). Anything more than that is fairly pointless. We have Superchargers and Chademo in all outbound directions within 100 miles of us.

I do have lots of "at whim" daytrips to Vancouver, Portland, Leavenworth, Sequim, Mt Rainier etc. You have to stop to charge for all of those anyway, and whether your outbound stop is 20 vs. 30 minutes make very little difference.

Don't get me wrong - once I'm on the road at a Supercharger / Chademo I will charge to 90% or even 100%, but I don't think there is a need to do daily charging to nearly that high for "in case" conditions.

This is pretty specific to Seattle area due to our geography - I would imagine it doesn't apply elsewhere.

 

[gregincal]

I think this is going to be a big surprise to the majority of the folks who signed up as I/we have never used an EV before. When I fill up the gas tank I fill it to 100% and I get it down to pretty low before I fill it.

Sure, I'll deal with this new way of doing things, I understand it's not "necessary" to charge to 100% for daily use but with that logic it's not "necessary" to fill my gas tank either I can just fill it to 80% and top it off on my way home each day that only takes a couple minutes, there's about 5 I pass on the way to-and from work every day.

We'll all deal with it, it's just one of the numerous "oh that was unexpected" things I'm finding out....but thats exactly why Im on the forums in the first place, the majority of reservation holders though are not. They'll figure this out only after they get the car.

But the reason you do that with the gas tank is that it's a huge hassle to refill it. You fill it up and let it go down over the course of days. You say it only takes a couple minutes, but the fact that you want to put it off as long as possible shows that it's a drag. The EV is magically topped up every morning ready for the day's driving, and you never have to visit a gas station again. It's a far superior experience, and you never need to check the gas gauge in the morning to see if you need more fuel, it's always ready (I always found I needed to get gas on the day I was already late for a meeting). I could do my commute 3 days in a row with a 90% charge, and I never ever think about range with my Tesla.

 

[Canuck]

I think this is going to be a big surprise to the majority of the folks who signed up as I/we have never used an EV before. When I fill up the gas tank I fill it to 100% and I get it down to pretty low before I fill it.

You're going to learn how much better is it to plug in at home than having to visit a gas station. Plus, you always leave home with the same amount of "fuel". So there's no hassle of having to stop for gas on a dreary, rainy day in Seattle on your way to work. You've got plenty of juice to make to the office and home, plus a heck of more, should you need it. Don't fret the not filling your battery full unless needed part. This is completely different than using gas and once you start doing it you'll more than understand. In fact, you'll never want to have to go to a gas station again. It will seem so last century.

 

[David99]

We'll all deal with it, it's just one of the numerous "oh that was unexpected" things I'm finding out....but thats exactly why Im on the forums in the first place, the majority of reservation holders though are not. They'll figure this out only after they get the car.

I know what you mean. Some thing that I thought would be annoying turned out to be an advantage. For example the number one question I get when asking me about my car is about charging. Where do I charge and where are stations and how long it takes. All these questions seem a concern if you have the old gasoline logic in your head. People think you have to find a (rare) charging station and then wait for the car to charge. That would be annoying indeed. In reality you have your plug at home. With the range of a Model S or Model 3 you never have to worry about range in daily driving. You don't even have to look at the battery gauge. You just come home at the end of the day and plug in which takes 5 seconds. In the morning you are full. You never have to worry how long charging takes, it's just full the next morning.
This is such a convenient feature of an EV! In a normal car you always have to fill up when you have no time. Lots of time wasted at gas stations. Only on long trips you have to stop a little longer and more often.

 

[Big-T]

I know what you mean. Some thing that I thought would be annoying turned out to be an advantage. For example the number one question I get when asking me about my car is about charging. Where do I charge and where are stations and how long it takes. All these questions seem a concern if you have the old gasoline logic in your head. People think you have to find a (rare) charging station and then wait for the car to charge. That would be annoying indeed. In reality you have your plug at home. With the range of a Model S or Model 3 you never have to worry about range in daily driving. You don't even have to look at the battery gauge. You just come home at the end of the day and plug in which takes 5 seconds. In the morning you are full. You never have to worry how long charging takes, it's just full the next morning.
This is such a convenient feature of an EV! In a normal car you always have to fill up when you have no time. Lots of time wasted at gas stations. Only on long trips you have to stop a little longer and more often.

You're probably right. I hope

 

[MSEV]

You're probably right. I hope

Wow. I keep saying that. This 100% is much ado about nothing.
You can charge to 100% every night that you need it the next day. It is that simple.
It is a bit different driving an EV--easier around home (never go to the gas station, plug in at night when you want to) and you have to plan differently for a long trip. If there are SuperChargers on the way, you need to stop at them for longer than a fast gas stop. If there are not SCs, you have to plan carefully and it will take more time.
REMEMBER: CHARGING TO 100% IS NOT A PROBLEM, JUST DO IT ONLY WHEN YOU NEED A FULL CHARGE THE NEXT DAY. This is not hard...

 

[ElectricTundra]

Any range anxiety will disappear once you've had the car for a bit. As mentioned above, you simply plug in when you get home and you're good to go whenever.

Our house in Florida has a 120v/15a outlet in the garage so only delivers 11a or about 4 mph of charge (or about 50 miles in 12 hrs). I'd planned to install a 240v/50a outlet for the car but found it un-necessary. We got enough charge while home to cover our driving. We ride bicycles for everything less than about 3 miles each way so that might have made some difference.

At our primary house we have a 240v/80a HPWC. We've really only needed it 2 or 3 times the past couple of years such as a lot of driving during the day, home briefly to change clothes, and then off to some evening event. The faster charging came in handy. Otherwise we'd be fine with even just a 120v/20a.

Trips w/ superchargers are wonderful. Instead of standing by a pump while it fills you plug in and go grab a cappuccino in whatever coffee café is by the charger. Even doing 600-800 miles per day most stops only need 20-30 minutes of charge and often the car is ready before we are. As a mileage hog who focuses on getting in the miles and stopping as little as necessary I was extremely surprised how much more enjoyable each leg is when it's limited to 2 - 3 hrs instead of 4 - 5 hrs.

 

[Sharkbait]

I am used to driving my Prius for 450 miles on a tank of fuel. When I'm asked to configure my M3, I'll be ordering the largest battery pack available. This option is first on my list.

 

[JeffK]

I am used to driving my Prius for 450 miles on a tank of fuel.

Mine's a 2007 Prius and I rarely get over 350 before filling up. I guess LA is much warmer than Indiana.

Although the longest distance I ever travel in a single day is 150 miles during holidays and I plan to plug in a Tesla at night so it looks like I won't be having any issues at all.

I'll probably still go for the largest battery pack too in order to give more of a buffer in the winter and for future capacity loss over time.

 

[McHoffa]

Try mapping your route here
EV Trip Planner

Choose a Model S 60 to give you as similar to a base M3 range as you can.