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Range Anxiety....Just saying

elptxjc

Member
Dec 15, 2019
752
143
El Paso, TX
I don't think many have range anxiety here. This will be our first EV, and we don't. However, it's still not as convenient as a gas car yet. I was checking the route to see one of my daughters in Amarillo, TX, which takes us 415 miles via Ruidoso, Roswell, and many little crappy towns, and of course no superchargers anywhere. And no way even our M3 LR would make it without charging even under ideal conditions. So we'd have no choice but to take the 575 route, which takes 2+ hours more... plus the extra charging time. Oh well. At least from El Paso to Austin, where the other daughter lives, no issues with charging. We'll just have to determine the most convenient stops both ways. And maybe give us 10% more range than what the nav says, just in case, since I travel faster than the speed limit, to learn how accurate the car's nav is when exceeding the speed limit. It'll be a nice adventure. At least for me. Ha ha.
 

pjensen

Member
Jul 24, 2020
155
91
Highland Village, Texas
At least from El Paso to Austin, where the other daughter lives, no issues with charging. We'll just have to determine the most convenient stops both ways. And maybe give us 10% more range than what the nav says, just in case, since I travel faster than the speed limit, to learn how accurate the car's nav is when exceeding the speed limit. It'll be a nice adventure. At least for me. Ha ha.

Ok, I will say it...

Why not just take a southwest flight? You are looking at 8.5 hours on the road each way (not including the supercharger stops). You will be beat after driving that amount of time. Total time would be in the 10 hour range. My prediction is you would just do this drive once....

Flying would be 3:15 hours. Get off the plane and take an uber. Much quicker and easier.
 

Saturday

Member
Jul 3, 2020
201
191
Maine
Ok, I will say it...

Why not just take a southwest flight? You are looking at 8.5 hours on the road each way (not including the supercharger stops). You will be beat after driving that amount of time. Total time would be in the 10 hour range. My prediction is you would just do this drive once....

Flying would be 3:15 hours. Get off the plane and take an uber. Much quicker and easier.
The point is we wouldn’t be telling someone to do this on the BMW forum if they, in fact, like driving their car.

I’ve said this before but I think there is too much focus on breakthrough battery technology and range instead of focus on simply increasing the number of charging points. There are plenty of ICE cars even with small gas tanks but their owners don’t worry about gas range. They don’t then tell automakers to make their gas tanks bigger. They just focus on how far away the next gas station is.

all Tesla or other companies have to do is simply make charging points as common as gas stations. We don’t even need massive 30 stall super chargers either. If we had like two stall stations but more of them, everywhere, I think that would eliminate this problem. People can be a bit annoyed at waiting for a charge on a road trip or even waiting in a queue but what people are most anxious about is being outright stranded. We don’t need a battery revolution to get to that anxiety free future. We just need more superchargers
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,393
3,093
Maine
Comparing flying to driving is like people comparing gas refueling time to supercharging. It's not a complete comparison.

When someone says flying takes 3:15hrs, they don't mention that's the fastest connection. Most of the connections are slower. Also, the comparison should be door-to-door. You have to go to the airport early to check-in, pre-board, etc., pass thru security. Then when you land, you have to wait for your luggage. And none of that mentions that the risk of getting Covid is far higher flying and using Uber than it is driving your own vehicle. Lastly, flying has little flexibility. You're on the airlines' schedule, not on your own. When you drive, you can leave anytime.
 

pjensen

Member
Jul 24, 2020
155
91
Highland Village, Texas
The point is we wouldn’t be telling someone to do this on the BMW forum if they, in fact, like driving their car.

Absolutely true. In this case, the OP has not yet bought the car. That drive from El Paso to Austin must be one of the most boring, non-scenic ever. It is flat desolate land that stretches on for hundreds of miles. To sit in a car for 8+ hours looking at that landscape is brutal (to me at least). Then you are faced with a return trip of similar duration. If the car developed a problem out there on that long drive, they would be screwed - as there is nothing out there.

When someone says flying takes 3:15hrs, they don't mention that's the fastest connection. Most of the connections are slower. Also, the comparison should be door-to-door. You have to go to the airport early to check-in, pre-board, etc., pass thru security. Then when you land, you have to wait for your luggage.

I just took a quick look at the airline's schedule. Yes that was the fastest connection. Yes you would need to show up 1 hour before the flight. El Paso has a small airport, probably easy in and out, no long lines, and a low volume of travelers. I do a carry on back pack so that makes traveling easier and quicker.

And none of that mentions that the risk of getting Covid is far higher flying and using Uber than it is driving your own vehicle. Lastly, flying has little flexibility. You're on the airlines' schedule, not on your own. When you drive, you can leave anytime.

With the lower volume of travelers, the plane might be near empty. Airports have been empty of travelers. Wear a mask...

Agree with avoiding uber. Perhaps the OP's daughter could pick them up at the airport.

If this trip was driving through the mountains, along the coast, through a forrest or scenic area - sure take a car. Unfortunately west texas has none of those views.
 
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Noodles

Member
Jul 22, 2020
287
177
Torrance, California
I don't think many have range anxiety here. This will be our first EV, and we don't. However, it's still not as convenient as a gas car yet. I was checking the route to see one of my daughters in Amarillo, TX, which takes us 415 miles via Ruidoso, Roswell, and many little crappy towns, and of course no superchargers anywhere. And no way even our M3 LR would make it without charging even under ideal conditions. So we'd have no choice but to take the 575 route, which takes 2+ hours more... plus the extra charging time. Oh well. At least from El Paso to Austin, where the other daughter lives, no issues with charging. We'll just have to determine the most convenient stops both ways. And maybe give us 10% more range than what the nav says, just in case, since I travel faster than the speed limit, to learn how accurate the car's nav is when exceeding the speed limit. It'll be a nice adventure. At least for me. Ha ha.
I said something similar like this in reddit

OH BOY, did I get downvoted by all the users who wish to be adopted by papa musk
 

elptxjc

Member
Dec 15, 2019
752
143
El Paso, TX
Why not just take a southwest flight?
We've done that trip dozens of times. It's probably quicker than flight, since there're no direct flights from ELP to AUS. Plus you need to get to the airport (1 hr), at least get there 1.5 hrs before, then wait for luggage in AUS. Depending on connection time, it'd take me the 8 hours it takes me to drive, or maybe more. Plus the cost of a car rental for a week. And with the COVID issue now, no freaking way even if it was just 1 hour. And yes, I like to drive :).
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,085
Vernon, BC, Canada
Articles like this are really only helpful for those that will have charging at home or their common destination.

The following people could not do with a 100km-range EV, for example:
- Apartment dwellers without good charging options at home
- Many trade/work vehicles (remote locations, dubious charging availability)
- Those who experience cold winters (heat eats up most of the "range" at this point)

Never been a fan of the "but everyone basically only drives 60km anyway" speech. It sort of works for denser cities, but then... apartments without charging are more common in that case?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,772
8,585
Riverside Co. CA
The point is we wouldn’t be telling someone to do this on the BMW forum if they, in fact, like driving their car.

I’ve said this before but I think there is too much focus on breakthrough battery technology and range instead of focus on simply increasing the number of charging points. There are plenty of ICE cars even with small gas tanks but their owners don’t worry about gas range. They don’t then tell automakers to make their gas tanks bigger. They just focus on how far away the next gas station is.

all Tesla or other companies have to do is simply make charging points as common as gas stations. We don’t even need massive 30 stall super chargers either. If we had like two stall stations but more of them, everywhere, I think that would eliminate this problem. People can be a bit annoyed at waiting for a charge on a road trip or even waiting in a queue but what people are most anxious about is being outright stranded. We don’t need a battery revolution to get to that anxiety free future. We just need more superchargers

(this post does not represent the views of TMC, nor is it posted as a TMC moderator. these are my opinions only as a regular user)

You would think thats the case, but until the charging speed is the same as filling with gas, people will stress. They just will. Even if they never ever get closed to using their cars range, they will obsess about the range number on the screen.

These forums are absolutely littered with posts that say, basically " My car displays a max range thats 20 miles less than when i bought it. It says 220 / 240 / 290 miles now, instead of what it used to say. WTF is wrong with my car???? My normal commute is 20 miles each way. I spent (insert amount of time) trying to balance my battery, its broken and tesla wont listen to meeeeeeeee!!!!!:"

Key point is, they drive 20 miles each way per day, for a total of 40 miles, yet are singularly focused on "that number on the screen". In fact, I would put to you that this OP is making this post partially to try to convince himself, since he falls into the above category based on previous posts on "range loss".

Anyway, its not going to change, regardless of how many charging stations there are. In california where I am, there is enough supercharging density that this is a non issue, for just about anywhere you would want to go, except for like deep in the mountains. People here still complain about range, and will continue to do so. Having a 400 mile rated EV or even a 500 mile rated EV will not stop people from complaining about range.

If "density of superchargers" was the end all answer, then no one would complain about range in california, but they do. More charging is part of the solution, but the other parts are:

1. Having some sort of charging available in multi family dwellings
2. Increasing charging SPEED, increases. Its pretty fast now, but there will always be someone who says "My 5 hour trip takes 2 hours of additional charging" as an exaggeration, and trot out "but my gas car fills in 5 minutes".

Speed of charging only really matters for road trips but it appears to me that every ICE driver road trips constantly, because thats what most of them point to when they talk about EV charging (because you normally have a full charge when you leave home, neither charging speed nor total range matter nearly as much as people think they do, but they lead to

3. A change in people's perception. Most people are used to "filling up, driving till the car is almost empty, and going to go fill up again", no matter where they are going. Read all the posts from new EV owners talking about "can I make this trip in one stop???"

People are going to have to realize that this isnt really necessary. I have yet to EVER spend more than 2 hours straight driving with my wife in the car. We have been married since we were 18, and I am in my 50s, and never once have we been in the car more than 2 hours before we need to stop. I dont even ask, I just pull off an exit at about 2 hours.

Everyone wants to talk about the 1500 mile trip they take, and how inconvenient it is when using an EV, because it takes an hour longer, because they stop 3 more times than they used to, but perceptions need to change, and one way to do that, is ....... more range.There will come a point when the range number + number of charging stations will get most people over this hump, but those numbers are likely twice as many superchargers as well as like 600 miles range.
 

Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
2,737
2,663
Austin
I used have significant range anxiety - in my LEAF. But then I was relying on notoriously unreliable, single plug chademo or J1772.
Since getting my Model 3 and completed several road trips, now have zero range anxiety.
Setting battery to percent instead of miles also helped.
Best of all is realizing that the 20% warning still leaves me with more range than my LEAF had to start with.

Most importantly, all of my EV road trips have been super relaxing. Anyone who sits and waiting for a charge is kidding themselves. Get out of the gas car mentality, plug the car in and walk away, take a break. The car tells you when it's time to go, usually before you're ready.
The gas car routine is, stop, fill with gas, maybe go potty, then off again.
EV routine is, stop and plug in, walk away from the car, check out the restaurant, talk to a few folks (usually other owners), bathroom break, coffee, food, chillax. The car alerts that its time to go and you wander back the car and leave.
Two to three hours later, repeat.
Arrive at destination after 9-10 hours driving feeling relaxed.
Especially important when it takes two days of that just to get out of Texas :D
 

dmurphy

Woof.
Dec 7, 2018
3,401
4,603
New Jersey - Morris County
Comparing flying to driving is like people comparing gas refueling time to supercharging. It's not a complete comparison.

When someone says flying takes 3:15hrs, they don't mention that's the fastest connection. Most of the connections are slower. Also, the comparison should be door-to-door. You have to go to the airport early to check-in, pre-board, etc., pass thru security. Then when you land, you have to wait for your luggage. And none of that mentions that the risk of getting Covid is far higher flying and using Uber than it is driving your own vehicle. Lastly, flying has little flexibility. You're on the airlines' schedule, not on your own. When you drive, you can leave anytime.

In a non-Covid year, I fly almost every week. 2019 was 130 flights, all domestic.

That said - for most of my east coast visits, I'm STRONGLY considering driving instead. It takes me about 8 hours to get to Columbus OH.

That's only an hour and a half flight. But by the time I leave my house, get to the airport 1.5 hours ahead of the flight, board, wait on the inevitable delay (it's Newark after all), land, pickup the rental car and drive to my customer site ... it's at least 6 hours. Any more than a 2 hour delay, and it'd be faster driving. And I'd have my own car with me instead of some crapbox rental. In comfort. No dealing with TSA, no nonsense. No risk of cancellation; can set my own schedule, etc. Someone coughs here at Newark, and flights are delayed. And those little regional jets are at the very back of the priority list.

So - I'm really, really reconsidering how I conduct business once we're off house arrest. Not to mention I can expense all those delicious miles at 57.5 cents per mile. :) Let them pay me instead of United! We'd all win. Cheaper for the company, better for me. And with the low cost of operation of my Model 3 ... win win win! (537 miles each way = 1074 miles = $617.55. If I take the wife's X, I get free Supercharging along the way too.... hmmmmmm....)
 

hcdavis3

HCD3
Mar 3, 2019
1,831
1,067
02571
Absolutely true. In this case, the OP has not yet bought the car. That drive from El Paso to Austin must be one of the most boring, non-scenic ever. It is flat desolate land that stretches on for hundreds of miles. To sit in a car for 8+ hours looking at that landscape is brutal (to me at least). Then you are faced with a return trip of similar duration. If the car developed a problem out there on that long drive, they would be screwed - as there is nothing out there.



I just took a quick look at the airline's schedule. Yes that was the fastest connection. Yes you would need to show up 1 hour before the flight. El Paso has a small airport, probably easy in and out, no long lines, and a low volume of travelers. I do a carry on back pack so that makes traveling easier and quicker.
I’m the OP look at my signature.


With the lower volume of travelers, the plane might be near empty. Airports have been empty of travelers. Wear a mask...

Agree with avoiding uber. Perhaps the OP's daughter could pick them up at the airport.

If this trip was driving through the mountains, along the coast, through a forrest or scenic area - sure take a car. Unfortunately west texas has none of those views.
 

NickFie

Member
Sep 28, 2017
518
546
Near Philadelphia, PA
Getting back to OP...you are in a section of the country with sparse Supercharger coverage. For background, read some of the threads regarding Superchargers East of El Paso. People from many states would organize Tesla parades to celebrate an opening.

Two areas where preparation will improve your trip - range-extending techniques and scouting out alternative charging sites.

Range Extension

I suggest exploring aerodynamic drag and road speed relationships when you are close to a Supercharger. It’s no fun running out of charge with no good power source in sight. Nobody can drive out with 5 gallons of electrons to pour into the battery so you can get to a fill-up point.

Some steps to stretch out miles per charge stop:
  • Ensure cold tire pressure is somewhere between the pressure recommended on the driver’s door label and 2 pounds below the Max shown on tire sidewall.
  • Drive in Chill mode as much as possible. This subtracts fun but adds range.
  • Use ACC (cruise control) as much as possible.
  • Use the Energy graph - accessed through the “more icons” icon on the bottom of the screen - to compare your energy consumption with the amount the car predicted. I’ve used this feedback to learn which tactics have meaningful payback. Also how much frisky behavior drains the battery.
  • When desperate, consider drafting a bus or semi. Don’t ride the bumper, set ACC to follow at 3 car lengths and 5 mph above the truck’s speed. This can give noticeably lower consumption at respectable cruise speed. Stay alert and be courteous since tailgaters make truckers nervous.
  • Adjust air conditioning to higher temperature or heat to lower setting. This is probably the biggest non-propulsion energy drain.
Chargers

Consider getting the NEMA Mobile Connector Adapter Bundle. That should allow you to charge from nearly any outlet. NEMA Adapter Bundle.

I remember stopping at a friend’s house for lunch on the last lap of a road trip. There was a NEMA 6-20 outlet in their garage (240 volts / 20 amps). I didn’t have an adapter. Else I could have added enough power during our leisurely meal to complete my trip without another Supercharger stop.

Use PlugShare to learn where L2 chargers are located along your route. This can give more options. Figure on a very slow meal and stroll around town.
 
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camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,085
Vernon, BC, Canada
I used have significant range anxiety - in my LEAF. But then I was relying on notoriously unreliable, single plug chademo or J1772.
Since getting my Model 3 and completed several road trips, now have zero range anxiety.
Setting battery to percent instead of miles also helped.
Best of all is realizing that the 20% warning still leaves me with more range than my LEAF had to start with.

Most importantly, all of my EV road trips have been super relaxing. Anyone who sits and waiting for a charge is kidding themselves. Get out of the gas car mentality, plug the car in and walk away, take a break. The car tells you when it's time to go, usually before you're ready.
The gas car routine is, stop, fill with gas, maybe go potty, then off again.
EV routine is, stop and plug in, walk away from the car, check out the restaurant, talk to a few folks (usually other owners), bathroom break, coffee, food, chillax. The car alerts that its time to go and you wander back the car and leave.
Two to three hours later, repeat.
Arrive at destination after 9-10 hours driving feeling relaxed.
Especially important when it takes two days of that just to get out of Texas :D

Your view is very popular, I just want to show a very different experience that I've had which is potentially common depending on location/habits:
  • Arrive at EV charger. Maybe it's a CHAdeMO station because the Supercharger network isn't everywhere. Pull out the chonky adapter, hook all up, start charging.
  • Don't go anywhere, just sit in the car.
    • You have no cellular signal and won't know when your car is done (app can't connect), and/or
    • There is no nearby washroom, garbage can, nor interesting shops, and/or
    • Even if there is a coffee shop, I'm not stopping at 5 coffee shops for the day because that's a bit much, and/or
    • Talk to people? Heck no. I don't like strangers :p
  • Arrive 2h later than otherwise, feeling exhausted because multiple 30 minute breaks don't make up for the fact I just want to get to my destination and be done with it.
We sit and wait for chargers because there often isn't much else to do. When there is, it becomes a question of "why"? I don't have a strong desire to go to the knickknacks shop. There's no reason for me to pop in the nearby hotel. I do however find myself going to gas stations still though for things like washing the windshield, which is a bit awkward.

I don't know. EV trip planning has honestly been really annoying. I find most of the romanticizations about charging breaks to be just that, and I'd rather not. If it's just one stop I'll happily take it. It's the multiple Supercharger and/or CHAdeMO stops in one day that starts to suck. And arranging for destination charging (so you can hopefully knock off one Supercharger stop that's otherwise needed) I've found to be a nightmare in reality - I'm not paying an extra $50/night just to go to the fancier hotel that has chargers and/or plugs we can use.

Some of these points will improve with time.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,475
985
Syracuse, NY
The point is we wouldn’t be telling someone to do this on the BMW forum if they, in fact, like driving their car.

I’ve said this before but I think there is too much focus on breakthrough battery technology and range instead of focus on simply increasing the number of charging points. There are plenty of ICE cars even with small gas tanks but their owners don’t worry about gas range. They don’t then tell automakers to make their gas tanks bigger. They just focus on how far away the next gas station is.

all Tesla or other companies have to do is simply make charging points as common as gas stations. We don’t even need massive 30 stall super chargers either. If we had like two stall stations but more of them, everywhere, I think that would eliminate this problem. People can be a bit annoyed at waiting for a charge on a road trip or even waiting in a queue but what people are most anxious about is being outright stranded. We don’t need a battery revolution to get to that anxiety free future. We just need more superchargers

Agreed. There are just not enough supercharger stations. Elon is selling tens of thousands of cars every quarter but i'm not seeing superchargers and super charging stations going up at the same rate.
 
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Jan 26, 2020
185
307
Andrews TX
I have range anxiety, but only in a northern direction from my house. East, west and south, I am covered by superchargers, but north it’s 233 miles to the closest SC.

However, my anxiety is not about being stranded, it’s about being bored. I don’t want to be stuck at a L1 or L2 for hours to get enough range to get to the nearest DCFC. Is my Tesla going to make it up to Alaska in the dead of winter? Maybe not. Will I make it from my house the 233miles to the next charger? With a little time, you bet.

The point is there’s electricity everywhere, in more places then there are gas stations.

I find it ironic that out here, the O&G industry has gone electric. For example, rod pumps used to use an engine that ran on natural gas, or propane. Guess what? The cost to run them was prohibitive. Nat gas was from the well and it wasn’t clean enough to keep the plugs from fouling, and propane was expensive. Can you imagine a few hundred propane tanks to fill all the time? Plus oil changes, etc. Sound familiar? Go electric! Well they all spent big money to bring significant electric capacity to what is essentially the middle of nowhere, and now most of it is being under utilized. Maybe I’ll try to get a couple j1772 stations setup at a lease location and put it on plug share....
 

TheRFMan

Member
Dec 15, 2019
322
250
Ottawa, Canada
We sit and wait for chargers because there often isn't much else to do.

I do a lot of photography (and did it semi-professionally for a while). I always have a camera around, and I find there is always a good photograph to be taken if you just roam around and see what most people miss. Heck, sometime on road trips, I take stops randomly even when I don't need to :)

I'm not paying an extra $50/night just to go to the fancier hotel that has chargers and/or plugs we can use.

LOL, I usually use chargers as rationalization for staying at the fancier hotel :). There's a spot in Montreal we used to go to before COVID that will valet park your car and bring it back in the morning with a full battery. That's pretty nice.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,315
7,397
Maine
These forums are absolutely littered with posts that say, basically " My car displays a max range thats 20 miles less than when i bought it. It says 220 / 240 / 290 miles now, instead of what it used to say. WTF is wrong with my car???? My normal commute is 20 miles each way. I spent (insert amount of time) trying to balance my battery, its broken and tesla wont listen to meeeeeeeee!!!!!:"

That's not range anxiety. That's battery anxiety, noobs concerned that they have a problem with their battery.

Everyone wants to talk about the 1500 mile trip they take, and how inconvenient it is when using an EV, because it takes an hour longer, because they stop 3 more times than they used to, but perceptions need to change, and one way to do that, is ....... more range.There will come a point when the range number + number of charging stations will get most people over this hump, but those numbers are likely twice as many superchargers as well as like 600 miles range.

More range is helpful for edge cases, but I think charging infrastructure is the big deal. Replace all gas stations with charging stations and it wouldn't be such a big deal. Dense infrastructure make travel more natural.
 

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