Range at 80 mph?

[Rocky_H]

I know they're different, but gas powered engines have proved to be more efficient with a transmission vs direct power to the wheels. Applying the same mechanics, the tesla battery is just a different power source.

But it's not the same mechanics, and it's not just about the fuel source.

The huge, drastic difference is in the motor types. A combustion engine has a very peaky power curve, with a narrow band of where it operates efficiently. It really needs a lot of those gears to keep moving the RPMs into that sweet spot for a combustion engine. Electric motors are very very flat for that through most of their RPM range, so moving gear ratios does do very much through a rational range of speeds that people would use.

But at very high speeds and high RPMs, they do have some power drop off, from effects like electric field saturation, where they can't get the magnetization of the parts of the motor to have time to drop off before they get activated again. So you can do up to levels like 90 or 100 mph without much need for a transmission. But to try to make very high speed cars to get close to 200 mph, a transmission does start to become helpful to achieve that. So it's more about enabling speed than helping efficiency.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Of course I did hit the 90+ mph passing cars and slowed down when necessary but my avg wh/mi was 327. 80mph would most likely give 250 miles with 100% battery if the car was new.

For a new 2021/2022 Performance Model 3 with ~80.6kWh including the buffer, this would give you:

(0.99*0.955*80.6kWh)/327Wh/mi = 233 miles to 0%. (~0.99 corrects for trip meter heat loss, 0.955 removes the buffer)

At that point, you'd have another 4.5%, 3.6kWh to use, below 0%, which you wouldn't want to use.

Since most people want to stop around 3-5% at an absolute minimum, realistically this would yield 225 miles of range.

If you ran until your last electron, shutting the car down, and babied it at 20mph to ensure no premature shutdown, and the BMS estimate was correct, you could do 244 miles. Just like the EPA test! YOLO!

 

[Apprunner]

For a new 2021/2022 Performance Model 3 with ~80.6kWh including the buffer, this would give you:

(0.99*0.955*80.6kWh)/327Wh/mi = 233 miles to 0%. (~0.99 corrects for trip meter heat loss, 0.955 removes the buffer)

At that point, you'd have another 4.5%, 3.6kWh to use, below 0%, which you wouldn't want to use.

Since most people want to stop around 3-5% at an absolute minimum, realistically this would yield 225 miles of range.

If you ran until your last electron, shutting the car down, and babied it at 20mph to ensure no premature shutdown, and the BMS estimate was correct, you could do 244 miles. Just like the EPA test! YOLO!

So you are saying I was about right . I did caveat that if the car was new. My car with about 7% degradation and smaller battery probably couldn't hit it..more around 200 miles but really, I only charge to 80% for roadtrips and tend to want to fill at the 100-150 mile mark. I make sure the Supercharger has access to a Starbucks

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So you are saying I was about right

I was just giving the numbers! 250 miles is optimistic, but 327Wh/mi is also quite high - at a good clip getting 300-310Wh/mi is quite reasonable when properly equipped.

My car with about 7% degradation and smaller battery probably couldn't hit it..more around 200 miles but really,

Just multiply all the numbers by 0.93!

The great thing is this is all very deterministic and easy to calculate range for a given Wh/mi. On the other hand, you don't know what Wh/mi you're going to get until after your trip. Use that Trip Planner! (I know you know this.)

Worth mentioning to the OP that the actual road trip range per charge is about 60-70% of these numbers, since you often won't want to wait around past 60-70% to minimize trip time.

 

[Apprunner]

I was just giving the numbers! 250 miles is optimistic, but 327Wh/mi is also quite high - at a good clip getting 300-310Wh/mi is quite reasonable when properly equipped.


Just multiply all the numbers by 0.93!

The great thing is this is all very deterministic and easy to calculate range for a given Wh/mi. On the other hand, you don't know what Wh/mi you're going to get until after your trip. Use that Trip Planner! (I know you know this.)

Worth mentioning to the OP that the actual road trip range per charge is about 60-70% of these numbers, since you often won't want to wait around past 60-70% to minimize trip time.

Sometimes its hard to tell what Wh/mi i'll get. Depends on if I meet a pesky Mustang or two during my trip

 

[KuramaKitsune]

I know, use percentage...but..just wondering, after watching the year old range test by Tom Moloughney who says 300 miles at 70.
I know he kept the speed at exactly 70 but in real world driving, with have to pass a truck, etc,etc, it is almost impossible to keep an exact speed. On the interstate highways out West ( I am in Oregon ) 70 puts you in the slow "truck" lane. So, just wondering..real world miles on a 2021 Model 3 AWD LR at, say 80..might be..240? Experience?

my 2020 model 3 lr+boost
work drive is about 45 miles each way,
ave 75-80 MPH each way consumes nearly Exactly 20%
100Miles roughly 42%

so i can say all freeway driving at that speed mostly in Autopilot my car could get like 220Miles
but i dont usually charge over 95% (my regen braking likes to reduce past 94%)

 

[Jeremy3292]

Posting again for visibility - input any parameter you want!

EV Efficiency and Range Calculator

Electric vehicle efficiency and range calculator supporting many cars including Tesla, Lucid, Aptera, and more.

www.motormatchup.com

 

[STS-134]

For a new 2021/2022 Performance Model 3 with ~80.6kWh including the buffer, this would give you:

(0.99*0.955*80.6kWh)/327Wh/mi = 233 miles to 0%. (~0.99 corrects for trip meter heat loss, 0.955 removes the buffer)

At that point, you'd have another 4.5%, 3.6kWh to use, below 0%, which you wouldn't want to use.

Since most people want to stop around 3-5% at an absolute minimum, realistically this would yield 225 miles of range.

If you ran until your last electron, shutting the car down, and babied it at 20mph to ensure no premature shutdown, and the BMS estimate was correct, you could do 244 miles. Just like the EPA test! YOLO!

Posting again for visibility - input any parameter you want!

EV Efficiency and Range Calculator

Electric vehicle efficiency and range calculator supporting many cars including Tesla, Lucid, Aptera, and more.

www.motormatchup.com

If Tesla could figure out how to put a 130 kWh battery in the Model 3 it would be perfect. That would give me the range I want at the speeds I could drive in the weather conditions that are very common along I-5 in California's San Joaquin Valley. Everyone goes at least 80, and sometimes, the flow of traffic is at 85+ mph. It's also commonly above 100°F during the day in the summer time.

 

[Darmie]

If Tesla could figure out how to put a 130 kWh battery in the Model 3 it would be perfect. That would give me the range I want at the speeds I could drive in the weather conditions that are very common along I-5 in California's San Joaquin Valley. Everyone goes at least 80, and sometimes, the flow of traffic is at 85+ mph. It's also commonly above 100°F during the day in the summer time.

I would agree but without any extra weight. I've often thought that range is King. Not sure why Tesla did not make available the plaid + and offer the 500 mile range.

 

[TigerNinety]

The risk of being in an accident is minimized by driving whatever speed everyone else is going. If you are doing 65 and everyone else is doing 80, your chance of being involved in a collision is much higher than if you were driving with everyone else. Every time you pass a vehicle or a vehicle passes you, there is a chance of a collision. You should minimize these events to minimize the chances of being involved in a collision. The higher the differential speed, the more likely there is to be a collision. It's the slow pokes that go 55 mph on the freeway when everyone is doing 70+ that not only are in a high chance of being involved in a collision themselves but also cause a very dangerous situation for everyone else especially if they're not in the slow lane. Of course, if everyone else is doing 65 and you're the one doing 80, that's not so good either.

Note that the risk is lowest at slightly greater than the average speed; this is probably because you have better visibility of what's around you if you are the one doing the passing, but not at too great a speed. The deviation on the top graph is in mph and on the bottom it is in km/h. You don't want to exceed the average speed by more than about 5-7 mph but if everyone else is doing 10 over the speed limit, you may need to do 15 over to get there. And it's the slow pokes doing -20 to -30 mph compared with everyone else that are at the greatest risk of a collision. Also, note that these are log plots so if everyone else is averaging 75 and you're doing 65, you'd still be at a roughly 4x chance of being involved in a collision than if you were going the average speed.

I thought this was fascinating and it seems to confirm what I’d intuited after a few decades of driving. One thing I have to wonder about, though, is that—while this approach of driving at or slightly above the predominant speed of traffic reduces differences in velocity—it doesn’t explicitly take into account (for example) the reduction in a driver’s available reaction time to deal with things that might occur. There might be an object on the road. Or, a nearby driver might do something stupid (your time to deal with him/her is high, but there’s still the fact of moving rapidly on a surface, etc). Or, a car might cross the median. Etc.

Anyway, still useful, thanks!

 

[Candleflame]

nextmove did an autobahn test on that. its 450km with AC off on a LR RWD model 3.

 

[Lindenwood]

If Tesla could figure out how to put a 130 kWh battery in the Model 3 it would be perfect. That would give me the range I want at the speeds I could drive in the weather conditions that are very common along I-5 in California's San Joaquin Valley. Everyone goes at least 80, and sometimes, the flow of traffic is at 85+ mph. It's also commonly above 100°F during the day in the summer time.

Sounds like your 2036 Model 3 will make you very happy!

(Or, more likely, having to stop for a charge every couple of hours, especially as charge times continue to drop, won’t bother you as much anymore )

 

[kgvickers]

Watching.

 

[DetectWhen]

Note that the risk is lowest at slightly greater than the average speed; this is probably because you have better visibility of what's around you if you are the one doing the passing, but not at too great a speed.

This doesn't make sense as general advice - everyone can't go faster than average, but a faster average speed will increase overall risk.

Even for a particular driver, that's not what Solomon's study showed. Causation versus correlation. His study showed risk versus speed, but did not attempt to find the risk for a given driver, in a given vehicle, in given road conditions, versus speed. I.e., if a given driver is going slower than average, then maybe (surprisingly) that causes their risk to go up, or maybe (less surprisingly) that driver is aware that they start off at higher risk and are trying to mitigate it. Horses, not zebras.

Solomon curve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DuncanM]

2023 Model 3 RWD 10% challenge:

Test starts at 10% SOC - car is then charged at max charging rate for 15min. Car is then driven at a steady 80mph, until SOC reacheds 10% again. Range driven is then noted.

The M3 RWD achieved 106 miles, 60% SOC to 10% @ 80mph.

 

[fholbert]

I know, use percentage...but..just wondering, after watching the year old range test by Tom Moloughney who says 300 miles at 70.
I know he kept the speed at exactly 70 but in real world driving, with have to pass a truck, etc,etc, it is almost impossible to keep an exact speed. On the interstate highways out West ( I am in Oregon ) 70 puts you in the slow "truck" lane. So, just wondering..real world miles on a 2021 Model 3 AWD LR at, say 80..might be..240? Experience?

79 MPH is my normal cruise control speed in a standard dual motor Y. Figure 2 miles per 1% of charge.

 

[fholbert]

If you're driving 80 mph in Oregon, where the highest speed limit is 65 (excepting I-84 near Idaho), you are driving too fast. That's 23% faster than the speed limit, which some people do drive, and which some trucks aren't even able to drive, in which case, you may be driving 20mph over their speed. If you're driving from Portland to Eugene, that only saves you 18.9 minutes. Is that worth the increased risk of an accident or severity of injury? You have a comfortable car, take it easy and enjoy the ride and lack of headaches having to deal with an accident or life-changing injury.

FWIW, I basically drive the speed limit everywhere I go, as a habit of driving small, low-visibility sports cars for the decade or so prior to getting my Model 3. I'm not sure I can think of any situation where my life would be appreciably better having arrived a few minutes earlier.

If in front of you looks like early Sunday morning, and behind you looks like Friday afternoon coming out of downtown Los Angeles... You may be the problem.

 

[RSpanner]

If you're driving 80 mph in Oregon, where the highest speed limit is 65 (excepting I-84 near Idaho), you are driving too fast. That's 23% faster than the speed limit, which some people do drive, and which some trucks aren't even able to drive, in which case, you may be driving 20mph over their speed. If you're driving from Portland to Eugene, that only saves you 18.9 minutes. Is that worth the increased risk of an accident or severity of injury? You have a comfortable car, take it easy and enjoy the ride and lack of headaches having to deal with an accident or life-changing injury.

FWIW, I basically drive the speed limit everywhere I go, as a habit of driving small, low-visibility sports cars for the decade or so prior to getting my Model 3. I'm not sure I can think of any situation where my life would be appreciably better having arrived a few minutes earlier.

Well, I agree..it is too fast. Last time we were on I-84 if was either stay behind a Semi going 65 or so, or step into the fast lane, where 80 was not fast enough for the traffic. I usually stay behind the Semi trucks and when they slow down, I pass, then back into the slow lane. The "80" speed I mentioned was more of a maximum but not an average...

 

[Msicario]

Great website. I recently did a roadtrip where my average speed on highway was between 80-85mph. Of course I did hit the 90+ mph passing cars and slowed down when necessary but my avg wh/mi was 327. 80mph would most likely give 250 miles with 100% battery if the car was new.

That’s very realistic