Range in app?

[pghstochaj]

I collected my refresh model 3 performance on Friday. It had 12 miles on it and now has 200 miles with one charge cycle from around 100 to 30%. I’ve charged it to 90% since and it is reporting 275 miles range in the app. I read that this should be the rated range, so this should be more like 317 miles.

I fully understand that range varies with use and weather, but does this suggest an issue as I thought this should be rated range, not estimated range based on use? I web chat Tesla (it went through to the US) and they said it doesn’t look right but couldn’t remotely see a fault.

I have an appointment to fix a badly aligned boot and two minor paint issues in January so I have chance to investigate before then, but would appreciate what experience people have on this.

otherwise the car is fantastic. Having come from a bmw 6 series, I am definitely not let down.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Mine has never, ever, shown the EPA rated range, not even in midsummer. The figure varies a lot, with temperature, driving history, etc. I rarely ever charge to 100%, and anyway the actual SoC varies. I've set mine to charge to 90% and found that's indicating 92% a day or so later, just because the temperature has changed.

I just don't get all this paranoia about an estimated range display. Conventional cars have a range that varies by maybe 30% or more, because of temperature, variations in fuel tank full cut-off point, etc, yet no one seems at all concerned by it. The range display has been colloquially referred to as a GoM (Guess-ometer) since EVs first came out, specifically because it's always a guess.

 

[KaiM]

I’m sure someone will give you a better answer but the short answer is that the WLTP range advertised on website is not the real range of the car.

 

[pghstochaj]

Thanks both, but my reading was that the range displayed there should be the rated range, not the adjusted range taking into consideration other factors. This is what the Tesla site says. Is this not true?

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Many just change that display to %, pretty soon after getting the car, and ignore the mythical range figure. This makes the display mimic the fuel gauge on a conventional car, and is overall a lot more useful. If you want to see the estimated range remaining on any trip, then switching to the energy screen gives a pretty good estimate.

 

[ACarneiro]

It’s actually quite interesting that seeing 30% on the display stresses me out a lot more than seeing an analogue gauge a third of the way up.

I also strongly recommend changing the indicator to %.

 

[pghstochaj]

I think my point has been misunderstood. It’s not about whether the car achieves its rated range or whether I should believe the estimated range.

Should the range in the app when charged be the rated range or not? The Tesla website suggests it should be. If it should be and it’s not, it makes me thing something isn’t right.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I just don't get this paranoia over the guessometer indication at all, I'm afraid. I've admittedly been driving EVs for a few years, and that may colour my judgement, but the only flaw in the Tesla data presentation is that the predicted range shown in the energy display is calculated differently to the rather pointless mythical range figure shown in the driving part of the screen, if that option is selected. I've never understood why Tesla choose to use different algorithms for these two displays, but I've never been bothered by it, as I just leave the driving display set to %, which is far more meaningful, IMHO.

I've owned conventional cars with estimated range displays, and they were every bit as useless as the guessometer on EVs. It's really just a function of it being very difficult to measure the SoC, that SoC varies with temperature, and that, just like official mpg, official range is equally unobtainable in the real world. In the case of Tesla, there's the added problem that they have to advertise cars in the UK using WLTP, yet the car uses the EPA data, and the EPA data gives a fair bit lower mythical range than WLTP.

 

[pghstochaj]

I just don't get this paranoia over the guessometer indication at all, I'm afraid. I've admittedly been driving EVs for a few years, and that may colour my judgement, but the only flaw in the Tesla data presentation is that the predicted range shown in the energy display is calculated differently to the rather pointless mythical range figure shown in the driving part of the screen, if that option is selected. I've never understood why Tesla choose to use different algorithms for these two displays, but I've never been bothered by it, as I just leave the driving display set to %, which is far more meaningful, IMHO.

I've owned conventional cars with estimated range displays, and they were every bit as useless as the guessometer on EVs. It's really just a function of it being very difficult to measure the SoC, that SoC varies with temperature, and that, just like official mpg, official range is equally unobtainable in the real world. In the case of Tesla, there's the added problem that they have to advertise cars in the UK using WLTP, yet the car uses the EPA data, and the EPA data gives a fair bit lower mythical range than WLTP.

Thanks, but I don’t think I can phrase my question in any more ways to make it any clearer that what I’m asking is not answered in the above.

Should the app display the rated range or the estimated range based on driving habits, weather etc.

My understanding is the rated range is what is supposed to be displayed. Hence on a brand new performance model, at 90% charge, I would expect to see 0.9 x 352 = 317. I currently get 275.

I’m fully aware that my mileage will literally vary, and the rated range is just the rated range. But why, if it is supposed to be the rated range, is my car saying 275 and not 317?

it is material if the rated range is what should be displayed and it is (for a currently unknown reason) displaying a much lower rated range than it should. It could, for example, indicate a fault. I’m fully aware that I will not get the rated range and that the range estimator in the car is flawed.

 

[Alistairuk]

Thanks, but I don’t think I can phrase my question in any more ways to make it any clearer that what I’m asking is not answered in the above.

Should the app display the rated range or the estimated range based on driving habits, weather etc.

My understanding is the rated range is what is supposed to be displayed. Hence on a brand new performance model, at 90% charge, I would expect to see 0.9 x 352 = 317. I currently get 275.

I’m fully aware that my mileage will literally vary, and the rated range is just the rated range. But why, if it is supposed to be the rated range, is my car saying 275 and not 317?

it is material if the rated range is what should be displayed and it is (for a currently unknown reason) displaying a much lower rated range than it should. It could, for example, indicate a fault. I’m fully aware that I will not get the rated range and that the range estimator in the car is flawed.

In simple terms: The app and the car displays an approximation of your actual range if you were to set off in current conditions (battery temperature) driving to some ridiculously impossible to make standard based on the current charge level of the battery. As the battery percentage goes down, the range may drop by far more than your distance travelled due to using heaters / accelerating / driving at non-optimum speed / regen settings and changes in temperature.

It does not display estimated range based on driving habits - you can get that from the Energy screen in the cars screen.

Most people seem to prefer % display for this reason, I prefer the miles display however.

 

[-monky-]

Thanks, but I don’t think I can phrase my question in any more ways to make it any clearer that what I’m asking is not answered in the above.

Should the app display the rated range or the estimated range based on driving habits, weather etc.

My understanding is the rated range is what is supposed to be displayed. Hence on a brand new performance model, at 90% charge, I would expect to see 0.9 x 352 = 317. I currently get 275.

I’m fully aware that my mileage will literally vary, and the rated range is just the rated range. But why, if it is supposed to be the rated range, is my car saying 275 and not 317?

it is material if the rated range is what should be displayed and it is (for a currently unknown reason) displaying a much lower rated range than it should. It could, for example, indicate a fault. I’m fully aware that I will not get the rated range and that the range estimator in the car is flawed.

I get what you are asking. My pre-refresh 3mth old M3LR has always shown ~310 in the app at 100%. I have never charged it to 100%, but you can still drag the charge indicator up there and see what it says. Sometimes it will vary by a few miles because it’s just an estimate, but if it has recently charged, more often than not it’ll show the full range as 310.

I think the refresh added about 5%. You also need to factor in the M3P range is a bit lower - about 95% - of the LR.

so really rough maths based on my numbers:
- pre-refresh M3P should have 100% indicated at about 95% of 310 = 294.5
- you’re looking at the range indicated at 90% charge so 90% of 294.5 = 265
- add on 5% for the refresh model = 278.

I would say your numbers look fine.

 

[pghstochaj]

In simple terms: The app and the car displays an approximation of your actual range if you were to set off in current conditions (battery temperature) driving to some ridiculously impossible to make standard based on the current charge level of the battery. As the battery percentage goes down, the range may drop by far more than your distance travelled due to using heaters / accelerating / driving at non-optimum speed / regen settings and changes in temperature.

It does not display estimated range based on driving habits - you can get that from the Energy screen in the cars screen.

Most people seem to prefer % display for this reason, I prefer the miles display however.

Ok, so despite what this page indicates:

Range Tips

after charging, the app is not supposed to state rated range, it states an adjusted range?

 

[pghstochaj]

I get what you are asking. My pre-refresh 3mth old M3LR has always shown ~310 in the app at 100%. I have never charged it to 100%, but you can still drag the charge indicator up there and see what it says. Sometimes it will vary by a few miles because it’s just an estimate, but if it has recently charged, more often than not it’ll show the full range as 310.

I think the refresh added about 5%. You also need to factor in the M3P range is a bit lower - about 95% - of the LR.

so really rough maths based on my numbers:
- pre-refresh M3P should have 100% indicated at about 95% of 310 = 294.5
- you’re looking at the range indicated at 90% charge so 90% of 294.5 = 265
- add on 5% for the refresh model = 278.

I would say your numbers look fine.

Thanks. That helps, but the performance is now 352 miles WLTP and if I slide the bar to 100% I am getting just 304 miles (275 at 90%). So it sounds like you get the rated mileage in the app which is what I read on the Tesla website. So why am I getting roughly 50 miles less than the rated range? Hmm.

 

[-monky-]

Ok, so despite what this page indicates:

Range Tips

after charging, the app is not supposed to state rated range, it states an adjusted range?

I think that page is ambiguous. I think what it means is that your displayed range is purely an estimate of what you might get if you drive in WLTP conditions (even on top of the fact that it’s not showing the WLTP numbers). E.g. At this time of year, I reckon my real world consumption is about 40% higher than what the car tells me at any time.

so in my example above, my WLTP range is 348; displayed range at 100% is 310; real range with driving style / weather / heaters / heavy right foot / etc = ~220.

 

[-monky-]

Thanks. That helps, but the performance is now 352 miles WLTP and if I slide the bar to 100% I am getting just 304 miles (275 at 90%). So it sounds like you get the rated mileage in the app which is what I read on the Tesla website. So why am I getting roughly 50 miles less than the rated range? Hmm.

not quite. My WLTP is 348. It’s always shown 310.

 

[Irata]

I understand the question.

Even page 77 of the manual states a full charge will show the EPA figure. Maybe the manual is wrong, it clearly does not say it will vary based upon temperature or usage.

"When fully charged, the driving
range displayed in Tesla vehicles is based on EPA
certification and does not account for your personal
driving patterns or external conditions. "

 

[MacPaul]

Teslabjorn briefly mentions this in his recent video about the Xpeng G3.

https://youtu.be/EW9S3LbDWxw (Skip to 4:30)

He says this car (G3) and Tesla are the only cars he’s aware of that state the fixed range at 100%. All others are GOM based on recent usage.

 

[Drew57]

I collected my refresh model 3 performance on Friday. It had 12 miles on it and now has 200 miles with one charge cycle from around 100 to 30%. I’ve charged it to 90% since and it is reporting 275 miles range in the app. I read that this should be the rated range, so this should be more like 317 miles.

I fully understand that range varies with use and weather, but does this suggest an issue as I thought this should be rated range, not estimated range based on use? I web chat Tesla (it went through to the US) and they said it doesn’t look right but couldn’t remotely see a fault.

I have an appointment to fix a badly aligned boot and two minor paint issues in January so I have chance to investigate before then, but would appreciate what experience people have on this.

I think you will see from the consensus here that your car is displaying in line with what we all have and expect.

It looks like your real issue is that you believe Tesla is giving misleading information. However that is the situation with all vehicles using comparative EPA & WLTP tests which are made for that very reason...so all manufacturers/vehicles are tested under the same conditions and we can compare. These are 'laboratory condition tests' & Tesla are subject to the same as everybody else.

However, if you really do want to achieve EPA or even WLTP, the good news is I had a few instances in the summer where it's possible. Please drive your Performance model only on warm, dry, calm days in chill mode with very gentle acceleration to around 50mph max on a flat or preferably downhill road, make sure you are alone in the car without any other added weight and try to keep moving without stopping. If you can manage the throughout ownership you may be pleasantly surprised what's possible. Whatever you do...please don't use Sport mode or accelerate!

So please accept our recommendation to change to % as if a fuel gauge and enjoy your car (...& please accept my apology for that last bit, it's frustrating to see needless anxiety when people buy a high performance Electric car and then expect it to achieve a theoretical average)

 

[pghstochaj]

I think you will see from the consensus here that your car is displaying in line with what we all have and expect.

It looks like your real issue is that you believe Tesla is giving misleading information. However that is the situation with all vehicles using comparative EPA & WLTP tests which are made for that very reason...so all manufacturers/vehicles are tested under the same conditions and we can compare. These are 'laboratory condition tests' & Tesla are subject to the same as everybody else.

However, if you really do want to achieve EPA or even WLTP, the good news is I had a few instances in the summer where it's possible. Please drive your Performance model only on warm, dry, calm days in chill mode with very gentle acceleration to around 50mph max on a flat or preferably downhill road, make sure you are alone in the car without any other added weight and try to keep moving without stopping. If you can manage the throughout ownership you may be pleasantly surprised what's possible. Whatever you do...please don't use Sport mode or accelerate!

Please accept our recommendation to change to % as if a fuel gauge and enjoy your car (...& please accept my apology for that last bit, it's just that I see so much anxiety when many people buy a high performance car and ask similar questions)

No, as written several times in here, I fully understand the difference between a rated range and a real world range. It is absolutely not a question of this.

I’m concerned that Tesla states that the rated range should be delayed in the app and I’m not close to the rated range. That makes me think that either something is wrong with my car (and perhaps others in this thread that have the same behaviour but have just changed to percentage to ignore it) or Tesla is wrong in saying the rated range should be displayed.

It’s quite a straightforward question, I’m not sure why people are so intent on changing my question or answering a different question.

 

[M3noob]

FFS forget the well documented falsehood of range miles, whether foisted on the gullible by the marketing suits or the misguided attempts at precision by official bodies.

Set the damn thing on percentage charge and worry more about things of greater import.