Exactly. But going off other replies, it’s completely normal (because it’s cold - my car is garaged) that the range stated when charged will not be close to the rated range and I don’t have any strange behaviour that at four days old, the car reports 274 miles at 90% charge out of 352 miles rated. It seems to be completely normal and it’s weird to question it (although not to you, as your range is for some reason much closer).
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Range in app?
- Thread starter pghstochaj
- Start date
Exactly. But going off other replies, it’s completely normal (because it’s cold - my car is garaged) that the range stated when charged will not be close to the rated range and I don’t have any strange behaviour that at four days old, the car reports 274 miles at 90% charge out of 352 miles rated. It seems to be completely normal and it’s weird to question it (although not to you, as your range is for some reason much closer).
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
This seems to be a perennial topic that comes up time and time again, hence the reason for some of the replies. Part of the problem, as already explained, is that an indicated 90% almost certainly isn't a true 90%, simply because SoC cannot be directly measured, it can only be estimated most of the time.
BTW, the EPA range for the 2021 model year Model 3 Performance is not 352 miles, it's 315 miles, and the car uses the EPA range data. The 352 miles figure is from the WLTP range data, but the car does not use this at all, it only displays data based on the EPA test, as it clearly states in the manual.
BTW, the EPA range for the 2021 model year Model 3 Performance is not 352 miles, it's 315 miles, and the car uses the EPA range data. The 352 miles figure is from the WLTP range data, but the car does not use this at all, it only displays data based on the EPA test, as it clearly states in the manual.
So if true, and this is just a matter of a cold battery, rather than an under performing battery,
well that’s make a bit more sense.
wltp long range is 360 and performance is 352.
epa long range is 353 and performance is 315.
So I’m actually just 11 miles off the epa which is fine. Of course the above doesn’t make any sense because there is no way that the performance and long range have such differing rated ranges under the EPA test scheme (particularly when compared with the minor difference in the WLTP testing).
Of course to find out the EPA figures I have to log into Tesla US which makes even more sense given that the car has been delivered to the U.K.
nevertheless, it does help to explain why the range stated by the car is what it is. Not sure why it took multiple pages talking about range anxiety or other nonsense when really it’s the fact that Tesla U.K. reports WLTP, the car reports EPA and for some reason, the performance EPA is a lot lower than the long range EPA.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
There are several posts quoting the manual in this thread, all saying that it was based on the EPA range, plus the EPA range for the Performance, of 315 miles, has been mentioned several times, twice by me.
The two tests are completely different in structure, although both give results that are way off reality. The EPA test uses a range of cycles on a rolling road that are a bit more representative of real world driving than the WLTP test profile, but both have to use defined battery state conditions and are run at defined temperatures, with an allowance in the test process to allow the battery pack temperature to stabilise before the test starts.
It says in the manual that the car will report your range based on EPA ... as others have said earlier in this thread. This is a USA vehicle and it reports range as per USA requirements. It is indeed unhelpful that the UK insists on WLTP to be quoted in advertisements and on websites but we can't blame Tesla for that. Tesla presumably don't want to make a separate software version to report based on WLTP because this would be a recipe for disappointment! Even EPA range will only be met in ideal circumstances.
My 2021 M3LR just updated to 2020.48.12.1 with release notes suggesting something about better range estimates to reflect better battery capacity. So I switched back to showing range as miles, and 100% range in app is now showing 341 (sure it was about 330 before). Just out of academic interest...
Attachments
Jason71
Well-Known Member
The car reporting your range based on WLTP would be like getting in an ice with a full tank and it giving you an estimated range based on the fuel consumption at a constant 56 mph. Just because the EU says that 356 is theoretically pretty much the furthest this car could possibly go in ideal conditions does not mean that number is useful in the real world. I want my car to tell me how far it might actually go. not lie to me. I know Tesla report the WLTP figure on their Web site. They are literally legally mandated to do so ( though given how high it is they would do it anyway TBA). No one gets upset that they don't get close to the idealised fuel consumption figures on the ICE websites we probably should not expect anything different from an EV even though we would like it to be so because EV range is more of a big deal to most than ICE MPG.
HenryT
Active Member
Interesting, but not at all surprising, that whilst the car uses EPA numbers as a basis, Tesla quote the WLTP figures on the sales website.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
They must quote WLTP in advertising and promotion within the UK and EU, it's the law. The car uses the more realistic EPA data though.
HenryT
Active Member
Thanks, noted - made the mistake of responding before I had read to the end of the thread.
One other observation - Tesla qualify both the LR and P ranges as (WLTP) with a link to a definition of what WLTP is, but the SR+ just gets (est.) without any qualification. Seems a bit odd?
MrBadger
Badger out
The same WLTP applies to vehicles having similar options - the LR and P is for all intents of purpose as far as WLTP is concerned, the same car, just with different options - the significant one being the 20" wheels from performance upgrade pack (PUP). I don't think WLTP has caught up with software options yet but, tbh, when the performance came without the PUP as standard, so 18" wheels, I cannot ever recall hearing that apart from right foot use, any real world range difference between LR/AWD and base Performance.
No different to any another vehicle not needing a different WLTP assessment for each wheel option.
Still not at the 353 yet though Davey
There’s an epic thread, linked below, which seems to point toward an LG battery being used rather than Panasonic in Europe. The strap line is that its capacity isn’t as high as the Panasonic and it charges slower. As was noticed in the most recent software update though, it may improve with time. Personally I don’t think it, the LG battery, will reach the EPA figure. The only way this seems to be possible is if a very small buffer is locked into the battery. Time will tell I guess. A step in the right direction with the software update though 2021 Model 3 - Charge data
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
No idea why that is. The official (as in required by legislation) figures are:
Model 3 Long Range AWD, 2021, WLTP = 360 miles, EPA = 353 miles
Model 3 Performance AWD, 2021, WLTP = 352 miles, EPA = 315 miles
MrBadger
Badger out
Isn't the battery supplier dependent on what factory the car was manufactured in? If Fremont, its Panasonic, if Shanghai, I believe its entirely LG. As far as I am aware, all UK cars have come from Fremont, although I believe a small quantity of LHD SR's headed to mainland Europe from Shanghai.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
That's as I understand it, although the "Panasonic" 2170 cells are actually labelled "Tesla", and made by Tesla, in partnership with Panasonic, in the Nevada Gigafactory.
MrBadger
Badger out
The cells are manufactured by Panasonic, but in the Tesla facility. Panasonic and Tesla Sign Agreement for the Gigafactory | Tesla UK This remains the case now with the 2170 and I believe the same with 4680 cells having recently signed a 3 year deal.
Tesla do manufacture the battery pack modules though using the Panasonic manufactured cells.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The manufacturing plant is owned by Tesla, and the cells are clearly labelled as such:
Certainly Tesla have continued the relationship with Panasonic from the 18650 cells days, when the cells were manufactured by Panasonic, and purchased by Tesla, but that's been steadily changing as Tesla have brought cell manufacture in house at Nevada, starting with the 2170 cells, that use Panasonic technology under a shared licence arrangement, and now switching to cells that are wholly Tesla technology with the new 4680 cells.
All UK cars have come from Fremont, but it seems some have been fitted with LG batteries as well as Panasonic.
Similar threads
