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Range in app?
- Thread starter pghstochaj
- Start date
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
My understanding is that all Fremont-built cars are using Tesla 2170 cells (that use Panasonic/Tesla chemistry) manufactured at the Tesla Nevada Gigafactory. I can find no reference to any other cells being used outside of the cars produced in China. Chinese-manufactured Model 3s have been supplied into Europe, but all have been LHD.
I think this is relevant:
Bjorn is comparing charge speeds of a 2019 (Panasonic) vs 2021 (LG). I don't think the 2021 is MIC as he says the battery is roughly the same size as his M3P 'MC Hammer' so wouldn't be an SR+
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I'll repeat, I do not believe that any of the Chinese-manufactured Model 3s, with the LFP battery pack, have ever been sold in the UK. They've only every been made in LHD, and some have been sold within the EU over the past month or so. I cannot find any evidence to suggest that RHD UK Model 3s have been manufactured anywhere other than Fremont, using Tesla's NCA cells made in the Nevada plant.
There seems to be a lot of confusion and guesswork being promulgated as if it were known fact, perhaps because Tesla are often pretty reticent about what they are actually doing (hence the regular changes in spec that are only spotted when customers collect cars).
There seems to be a lot of confusion and guesswork being promulgated as if it were known fact, perhaps because Tesla are often pretty reticent about what they are actually doing (hence the regular changes in spec that are only spotted when customers collect cars).
Bottom of page 7 starts to summarise the situation a little, screen grab below. The E5D is the LG, and the one I think I have due to the current lack of range. It’s only the LR that’s affected I believe. The performance actually has a 82 kWh performance battery.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
That seems to miss out the LFP cells fitted to Chinese-made Model 3s. I strongly suspect that there is an element of well-meaning guesswork going on, as I cannot find anything definitive about cell types (other than the Tesla/Panasonic NCA cells and the CATL LFP and LG cells in Chinese-made Model 3s)
So you think you have an LG battery ... that's fair enough but I thought from your statement that you knew for a fact that there were UK cars with LG batteries. It's certainly going to be an interesting time to watch how the pros and cons of battery packs work though in real life usage.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
It doesn't look as if any UK RHD cars have Chinese made cells. Both LG Chem and CATL produce cells (in China) for Chinese-manufactured Model 3s. No Chinese manufactured Model 3s have been made in RHD yet, and so none have been imported into the UK yet. Chinese-made Model 3s have been sold in Scandinavian countries since Novermber 26th this year.
That means all UK Model 3s, whether pre or post the 2021 model year change, will be fitted with Tesla/Panasonic NCA cells made in the Tesla Nevada Gigafactory. I can find nothing to suggest that either Chinese-made LG Chem or CATL cells have been imported into the USA to be used in the Fremont factory (where all UK Model 3s are built). I also suspect that the current US issues with Chinese imports might cause problems if they tried to do this. LG Chem in Korea are at full capacity supplying Hyundai, Kia and their grid support battery packs, and the Korean LG Chem cells don't seem to have Tesla qualification, AFAICS.
That means all UK Model 3s, whether pre or post the 2021 model year change, will be fitted with Tesla/Panasonic NCA cells made in the Tesla Nevada Gigafactory. I can find nothing to suggest that either Chinese-made LG Chem or CATL cells have been imported into the USA to be used in the Fremont factory (where all UK Model 3s are built). I also suspect that the current US issues with Chinese imports might cause problems if they tried to do this. LG Chem in Korea are at full capacity supplying Hyundai, Kia and their grid support battery packs, and the Korean LG Chem cells don't seem to have Tesla qualification, AFAICS.
Probably more data in that thread than Tesla ever likely to tell us
. It is just data points at with moment though, correct. Looking at the ‘out of the box’ ranges that I’m getting displayed it does seem something is consistently different. Standard 330-336 pre software update for me (and a few others who have posted in the UK) then 340-342. It’s 348 then 353 for North American cars. It is what it is, just curious really. I think, again I’m always dangerous when I think and make myself look even more of a fool than I already am, that Tesla are doing some user testing in the real world and are adapting what the battery can do, both in potential untapped capacity/efficiency and charge speeds.Probably more data in that thread than Tesla ever likely to tell us
True. In the guessing game I'll speculate that quite aside from the LG battery differences there are differences in the Panasonic/Tesla packs as they introduce their own developments ... you therefore could still have a Panasonic pack but with some design changes. Alternatively (and possibly more likely) the range readings are just the result of software bugs.
Agreed, it’s unclear what is happening at the moment. I think there is something a foot it seems though, what with the different reported ranges for the North American vehicles vs mine (UK/Europe). There’s some indication that the LG packs may indeed provide better degradation properties and eventually superior (if not equal) performance to the existing Panasonic though at some point. Watch this space I guess...well the clever people who can deconstruct the data anyway.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Agreed, it’s unclear what is happening at the moment. I think there is something a foot it seems though, what with the different reported ranges for the North American vehicles vs mine (UK/Europe). There’s some indication that the LG packs may indeed provide better degradation properties and eventually superior (if not equal) performance to the existing Panasonic though at some point. Watch this space I guess...well the clever people who can deconstruct the data anyway.
If I had to guess, based on about 15 years of playing around with lots of different lithium ion cell chemistries, I'd say that the cells with the longest calendar and cycle life will almost certainly be the CATL LFP cells, the next best are likely to be the Tesla/Panasonic NCA cells and the unknown being the LG Chem NCMA cells. This latter point is based mainly on there being very little evidence as to how the LG Chem NCMA cells behave, they are very new, and little is known about them, whereas there are mountains of data on both NCA and LFP cell chemistry.
LFP has long been the chemistry of choice for long-life requirements, because of its high cycle life. The big downside with LFP is it's relatively poor energy density, which makes battery packs bigger and heavier for a given capacity. NCA has been proven by Tesla in both their 18650 cells and the 2170 cells used in the Model 3. AFAIK, the CATL LFP cells are only fitted to Chinese-manufactured SR+ LHD cars.
Hi, others get carried away with their opinions around the range! But in answer to your actual question, whilst it is based on rated, you will see less than that figure. I can tell you my 2020 M3P was rated at 329 miles, but the highest figure I have got either at 100% charge or based on calculations from 90% is 310 miles. I believe this is pretty normal. That said I would have expected it to be higher than 275 miles at 90% for a refresh model. I used to get 279 miles at 90%.
Assuming you have 19 or 20 inch wheels then a displayed range of 310 is great. The EPA, which the car uses as the display reference, is 304 for 19s and 299 for 20s
There definitely seems to be a bit of balancing going on with the range of the 2021 LR AWD versions due to the two battery types that they, very likely, have been provided with. Possibly throttling one whilst liberating the other.The most recent software update bumped the North American cars up to the 353 EPA whereas mine went to 339-342. Same model, different battery that appears to have been installed. Tesla seem to be playing/testing what can be achieved with the LG Chem battery, voltage changes, unlocking capacity etc.
I'm less interested in what the car displays and much more interested in actual miles driven v battery consumption.
I charged mine (LR 19" wheels) to 80%. I then drove it to 29%. 60 motorway miles...never went above 80. The rest were pottering about. Actual miles covered when 50% of the battery used 80 down to 30%)? 89 miles.
Does range really drop that low when it's a bit cooler? Or do I need a lighter right foot?
I charged mine (LR 19" wheels) to 80%. I then drove it to 29%. 60 motorway miles...never went above 80. The rest were pottering about. Actual miles covered when 50% of the battery used 80 down to 30%)? 89 miles.
Does range really drop that low when it's a bit cooler? Or do I need a lighter right foot?
MrBadger
Badger out
both, plus hvac use, wind and rain which you may or may not have had affecting it too.
A couple of indicative graphs in here Tesla Model 3 = Most Efficient Electric Car On Highways (cleantechnica.com)
A couple of indicative graphs in here Tesla Model 3 = Most Efficient Electric Car On Highways (cleantechnica.com)
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Yes it does, and possibly.I'm less interested in what the car displays and much more interested in actual miles driven v battery consumption.
I charged mine (LR 19" wheels) to 80%. I then drove it to 29%. 60 motorway miles...never went above 80. The rest were pottering about. Actual miles covered when 50% of the battery used 80 down to 30%)? 89 miles.
Does range really drop that low when it's a bit cooler? Or do I need a lighter right foot?
The difference between 70 and 80 mph is quite surprising, something to do with the maths of air resistance increasing non-linearly with speed. In short, you will squeeze a lot more out at 70 than 80, even more at 60. I can only presume that this is why I often notice EVs on the inside lane being driven by owners sporting imaginary halos or the look of fear on their face as they dice with it to make it to their next charger.
Proper preheating (30-45 mins) does help if you do a long trip (watch Nyland videos to understand how that works). In my experience, you would have noticed the car starting to increase in efficiency after about 40 miles.
You can play with all this for various trips using ABRP. It is quite accurate in my experience.
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