Range Issue: Model Y Performance 2022

[Autonerds]

I took my first trip recently out of state. 90% freeway at 74 MPH with ambient temp rising from 70 to 95 deg F for 227 miles. Car prediction of energy at arrivals was dead on within 1% Started at 100% and returned with 11%. 66 kWh used at 291 Wh/mi. Made no attempt to hypermile it and just drove and let climate control do its thing. I expected to visit my first supercharger but there was no need.

Did the math on charging back up and calculated 4kWH charging loss for a total use of 70 kWh. The cost of this with at home charging... $7. Slightly more than the cost of one gallon of premium fuel.

I'm good with that. I never expected to get EPA numbers any more than I would on an ICE car.

 

[Corndart]

The EPA range test is done at 55mph, physics...

With 1 occupant, NO A/C, on flat ground, etc.

No

Detailed Test Information

EPA tests vehicles by running them through a series of driving routines, or schedules, that specify vehicle speed for each point in time during the laboratory tests.

www.fueleconomy.gov

 

[norazi]

The 300 mile estimate is absolutely best case scenario. Going over 60 mph, using AC/Heat, not using regen, towing, going uphill all can severely impact range

 

[deepbluejh]

You might be 240-250mi of range going 70. I don't know how slow you have to drive to get the full 300 miles on a charge, but it's way slower than most people are willing to drive on a long trip.

 

[ED_SFO]

On the way back from La to Sf did a nice 270 wh/mi stint until traffic hit...tires were at 55 psi but it was 104 F. But I say just drive and enjoy. Tesla's in LA is a must because it was 100F everyday over the weekend and pre-setting climate before getting back in was a live saver. Car reached 144F sitting in the sun with roof shades on MYP yikes!!!

 

[hw13]

Hey guys. I have had my model Y for a few months now. The range is supposed to be around 300 miles, but I can barely get 200-220 miles range on mine even in chill mood and keeping my speed around 75-80. Is this normal?

Try 55-60.

 

[MY-Y]

OK, I've pondered thus some more, and yes, my previous explanation was wrong. I'm sorry about that. I love physics and cannot believe I made that error.

Wind force increases with speed squared. This makes intuitive sense. As speed doubles, you are hitting each air molecule twice as hard and you are hitting twice as many per unit of time.

With the wind force growing as a square with speed, the power needed to overcome this force is cubed. This is also intuitive. If you double the speed you are pushing against four times the force at twice the rate, so you need 8x the power.

So why does the measured data show the energy consumes per mile going up nearly linearly with speed at highway speeds?

Wind resistance isn't as dominant at highway speeds as I would have thought. From https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/the-slipperiest-car-on-the-road.pdf, a 2012 Model S at 70 MPH needs only 14 HP to overcome the air resistance at 70 MPH and 42 HP at 100 MPH. This follows the speed cubed (100/70)^3*14=41 as expected.

At 70 MPH, the MS consumes roughly 300 Wh/mi of energy. This means it is using ~300 Wh/mi * 70 mi / hr = 21000 watts to drive. I don't know the efficiency of the drive system, but let's suppose it's 90%. The HP used to move the car at 70 MPH = 21000 watts / (746 watts/HP) * 90% = 25 HP. The air resistance took 14 HP, so the rest (mostly rolling resistance) takes 11 HP.

Now you go 80 MPH, and the expected energy needed will be ~80/70*300= 342 Wh/mi. This equates to 342*80=27360 watts --> 33 HP. The power to overcome the air resistance = (80/70)^3*14=21, so the rest of the system takes 33-21=12 HP. The rolling resistance remains about constant, and the power needed to overcome it scales linearly with speed (80/70*11=12.6).

Bottom line:
1. Air resistance grows with speed^2.
2. Power needed to overcome this grows with speed^3.
3. At highway speeds (50-80), the needed power grows roughly with speed^2, so the consumption grows roughly linearly with speed. This is because the cubed term is only part of the equation.

Naturally, the system is much more complex, but this captures some of the key factors.

 

[SpicyPaneer]

51 psi is rock hard man... so that is one aspect. But two, 265 wh/mi... that's not MYP territory. Were you driving a MYP?

Driving at that rate, he’s was driving on a lower tire resistance and least traction, so it’s possible to have that range, but not recommended unless you want uneven tire wear.

 

[SpicyPaneer]

I see about 240 miles on my 21 my long range with Gemini wheels. I think the newer ones would be closer to 260.

This is at closer to 75, though. At 80 on uberturbines, I'd expect 220 to be pretty close.

Also, I doubt you will see a difference with chill mode. I wouldn't do that.

My MYP I picked up today showed 79% charge and 230 mile range. After a 13 miles ride home with a/c going , it showed 74% or 213 miles of range. I was driving up to 65!mph in that short trip. This is my 1st EV so learning as I go. But would have like to see at least 250 on a 80% charge. I plan to charge at 80% just to keep the battery from degrading.

 

[FMAW]

I'm looking to get some perspective on the practicality of owning a MYP from Canadian owners who have gone through a winter with their MYLR or MYP, and to decide if I'm better off keeping my Tesla reservation, or canceling it and purchasing another ICE car (BMW/Mercedes). To preface, my building does not support EV charging and is planning to build them in the next year. I live two minutes away from a supercharger, and ten minutes from a Tesla store which pushed me towards purchasing a Model Y. For context, my 14-year-old Civic is on its last legs and I don't think it will hold up for another two months as it's been in and out for repairs.

I'm currently awaiting delivery on a MYP, which is slated to arrive in two weeks. Like a lot of new owners, I'm excited for the vehicle but I'm now beginning to suffer from range anxiety as I'm reading mixed reviews when it comes to owning an EV during Canadian winter (I live in Toronto).

The majority of my long commutes come in the summer, where I'm required to drive at least 250+km in a day on weekends, and sometimes 450. I'm a wedding photographer, so waiting at a charger doesn't bother me as I would work in my car while the vehicle is charging, as opposed to sitting at home, organizing files and whatnot at the end of the night. During the winter, my work as a wedding photographer dies down significantly, and my commute for my other jobs range from 50-150km a day, going from Toronto to the West end as far as Burlington, with the odd job requiring me to travel a total of 250km to St. Catherines. To those who aren't familiar with the area, there are superchargers within 30-75KM from each other.

I'd love to hear the experiences of Canadian owners who have gone through our winter, or maybe other owners who have similar weather conditions (especially those of you relying on superchargers) and have a very objective opinion on whether or now I should keep the reservation or go with another ICE vehicle.

 

[Brolan]

It certainly sounds doable. You just have to realize in very cold weather you will have only half of your range and need to charge every 200 or so km.

I would also like to add you should have a garage with a 32 amp minimum 240v outlet for charging to make your life easier.

 

[boulder.dude]

You won’t want to rely on Supercharging for your “home” charging needs — because it’s expensive, makes to wait, is much slower when cold or charging to a high %, etc.

Unless you can find EV charging walkable (nearby mall, community center, library, etc.) to your home, you might be disappointed with an EV.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

You won’t want to rely on Supercharging for your “home” charging needs — because it’s expensive, makes to wait, is much slower when cold or charging to a high %, etc.

Unless you can find EV charging walkable (nearby mall, community center, library, etc.) to your home, you might be disappointed with an EV.

It can be a viable option in at least some locations and use cases.

For example, I use my MYLR about 150-200 miles per week around town. So once a week I drive to the Supercharger that's about a mile from where I live, I plug in, walk to the grocery that's a hundred feet away, grab some fruits, veggies, pasta, and dairy. I get a DragonFruit lemonade from Starbucks on the way back to the car, which has by then taken itself from 20% to maybe 75% full. I do this run at 9 PM and get a 50% off-peak price at the supercharger, so my weekly bill is about $12.

I could save a few more dollars charging at home, but it's already very cheap and easy.

 

[TezlaTO]

I'm looking to get some perspective on the practicality of owning a MYP from Canadian owners who have gone through a winter with their MYLR or MYP, and to decide if I'm better off keeping my Tesla reservation, or canceling it and purchasing another ICE car (BMW/Mercedes). To preface, my building does not support EV charging and is planning to build them in the next year. I live two minutes away from a supercharger, and ten minutes from a Tesla store which pushed me towards purchasing a Model Y. For context, my 14-year-old Civic is on its last legs and I don't think it will hold up for another two months as it's been in and out for repairs.

I'm currently awaiting delivery on a MYP, which is slated to arrive in two weeks. Like a lot of new owners, I'm excited for the vehicle but I'm now beginning to suffer from range anxiety as I'm reading mixed reviews when it comes to owning an EV during Canadian winter (I live in Toronto).

The majority of my long commutes come in the summer, where I'm required to drive at least 250+km in a day on weekends, and sometimes 450. I'm a wedding photographer, so waiting at a charger doesn't bother me as I would work in my car while the vehicle is charging, as opposed to sitting at home, organizing files and whatnot at the end of the night. During the winter, my work as a wedding photographer dies down significantly, and my commute for my other jobs range from 50-150km a day, going from Toronto to the West end as far as Burlington, with the odd job requiring me to travel a total of 250km to St. Catherines. To those who aren't familiar with the area, there are superchargers within 30-75KM from each other.

I'd love to hear the experiences of Canadian owners who have gone through our winter, or maybe other owners who have similar weather conditions (especially those of you relying on superchargers) and have a very objective opinion on whether or now I should keep the reservation or go with another ICE vehicle.

Hey there, I live in Toronto and last winter, at very cold, I lost mayyybe 5%, give or take when it say all day while at work. But sure as hell not 1/2 of my range as someone wrote lol. You won't really notice a huge drop. And again, I'm talking -25 etc.
These cars are amazing in the winter imo.

 

[Rocky_H]

Hey there, I live in Toronto and last winter, at very cold, I lost mayyybe 5%, give or take when it say all day while at work. But sure as hell not 1/2 of my range as someone wrote lol. You won't really notice a huge drop. And again, I'm talking -25 etc.

You're talking about two entirely different and separate things:

You said:
"I lost mayyybe 5%, give or take when it sat all day while at work"
You are describing right there energy just disappearing while the car sits and does nothing.

And then you compared to:
"But sure as hell not 1/2 of my range as someone wrote lol."

That person was NOT talking about energy lost while parked. This is referring to the very reduced efficiency WHILE DRIVING from the energy consumption being very high because of having to run a lot of energy for heating. Gas cars have a hot engine, so heat is always free, while EVs don't have that and have to consume extra. I've seen around 30-40% loss in some very cold conditions. I consider someone saying "half" as just a little bit exaggerated, but not too far off.

 

[PEDSDO]

Hey guys. I have had my model Y for a few months now. The range is supposed to be around 300 miles, but I can barely get 200-220 miles range on mine even in chill mood and keeping my speed around 75-80. Is this normal?

I drive in my 2022 MYP in chill mode with running AC all the time. I mostly drive in stop and go traffic but also use the highway in Los Angeles. I don’t use Sentry mode.

Since purchasing the car, I have driven 850 miles and used 371kW to charge. I charge to 85%. If do the math (850 miles divided by 371 kW) is 2.3 miles/kW. If there are 75kW for a model Y performance that means I am hitting 170miles per 85% e-charge. So if I charge to 100%, I would hit 200miles per full e-charge.

This math may be TOTALLY wrong but seems to make sense to me.

 

[rickybobbee]

I'm looking to get some perspective on the practicality of owning a MYP from Canadian owners who have gone through a winter with their MYLR or MYP, and to decide if I'm better off keeping my Tesla reservation, or canceling it and purchasing another ICE car (BMW/Mercedes). To preface, my building does not support EV charging and is planning to build them in the next year. I live two minutes away from a supercharger, and ten minutes from a Tesla store which pushed me towards purchasing a Model Y. For context, my 14-year-old Civic is on its last legs and I don't think it will hold up for another two months as it's been in and out for repairs.

I'm currently awaiting delivery on a MYP, which is slated to arrive in two weeks. Like a lot of new owners, I'm excited for the vehicle but I'm now beginning to suffer from range anxiety as I'm reading mixed reviews when it comes to owning an EV during Canadian winter (I live in Toronto).

The majority of my long commutes come in the summer, where I'm required to drive at least 250+km in a day on weekends, and sometimes 450. I'm a wedding photographer, so waiting at a charger doesn't bother me as I would work in my car while the vehicle is charging, as opposed to sitting at home, organizing files and whatnot at the end of the night. During the winter, my work as a wedding photographer dies down significantly, and my commute for my other jobs range from 50-150km a day, going from Toronto to the West end as far as Burlington, with the odd job requiring me to travel a total of 250km to St. Catherines. To those who aren't familiar with the area, there are superchargers within 30-75KM from each other.

I'd love to hear the experiences of Canadian owners who have gone through our winter, or maybe other owners who have similar weather conditions (especially those of you relying on superchargers) and have a very objective opinion on whether or now I should keep the reservation or go with another ICE vehicle.

I have a MYP and I find an easy rule of thumb is basically with at least 80% charge don't plan on driving more than 2hrs without a place to charge or you might run into stress

 

[jcanoe]

I drive in my 2022 MYP in chill mode with running AC all the time. I mostly drive in stop and go traffic but also use the highway in Los Angeles. I don’t use Sentry mode.

Since purchasing the car, I have driven 850 miles and used 371kW to charge. I charge to 85%. If do the math (850 miles divided by 371 kW) is 2.3 miles/kW. If there are 75kW for a model Y performance that means I am hitting 170miles per 85% e-charge. So if I charge to 100%, I would hit 200miles per full e-charge.

This math may be TOTALLY wrong but seems to make sense to me.

Consumption seems high. Do you have Cabin Overheat Protection set to run the AC?

What have you set as the cold tire pressure?

Have you considered tinting the glass of the Model Y?

Short distance trips are worse for efficiency as the Tesla Model Y must either cool down or heat up the passenger cabin to the desired temperature when you will only be driving a short distance. Preconditioning while plugged in will shift this power usage to the grid. (You might not want to do this depending on your utility rates and if you have a TOU plan.)

 

[TheLex]

Speed and temperature greatly affect EVs. A few weeks ago, when it was well over 110° every day, we were at 390 Wh/mi. Now that it's cooled back down, our average has dropped to 280 Wh/mi.

Still, that's far below what the EPA estimated range is. At 280 Wh/mi, our estimated range would be 268 miles for our MY LR7. But if I've got my pedal in it, and zooming down the freeway at 75 mph with the AC on, I doubt the range will be anywhere near that good.

As for the value proposition, here in California, superchargers are expensive. I've been paying $0.46 kWh during the off-peak times. It's a lot more during peak hours.

Let's say we started at 100% charge and ran it down to 10%. Based on an average of 280 Wh/mi, that would give us range of 241 miles. Charging off-peak (not really practical when traveling), would cost $31.05. The car has a 75 kWh battery. 90% of that charge would be 67.5 kWh. 67.5 kWh @ $0.46 = $31.05 to charge the battery back up to 75 kWh.

If I were to drive my Subaru, getting 22 mpg on regular fuel, that same 241 miles would cost me $58.

So it would cost 47% to take the Subaru. Big savings right?

Not so fast. In my Subaru, I can drive all day long at 75-80 mph with my AC blasting, a full load of people, dog, and a rooftop box. And I will still get that 22 mpg. How do I know? I did a 1800 mi trip this summer under those exact circumstances. In the Tesla however, I rather I doubt my efficiency would be as low as 280 Wh/mi under those circumstances. If my efficiency were say 330 Wh/mi (not unreasonable under those circumstances), with 10% charge remaining, my range would be only 204 miles. I would need an extra 12.21 kWh to go that extra 37 miles, costing an extra $5.62. So now the total electricity costs would be $36.67. It's still about a bit over 1/3 less than gas.

But this model is based on electricity at the lower off-peak supercharging rates in California. If one were to pay a peak supercharger rate of $0.56 kWh, now the same 241 miles would cost $45.64. Now the differential closes and it's only 23% cheaper. Further complicating things, California gas is near all times highs right now because of refinery closures for maintenance. When we go to our winter blend, which has less stringent EPA requirements, the price of gas is expected to drop well below $5/gal again.

Bottom line - there are a lot of factors at play. If you're in an area with a high cost of electricity, then an EV may not save you all that much in terms of daily running costs. You'll save some on less maintenance of course, but if you're in ultra cold or ultra hot weather, and you tend to drive fairly fast, the savings become very small.

 

[MY-Y]

I agree that there are a lot if factors. Here in MD, charging at night with BGE's EV rate is $0.08 / kWh. I drove 1513 miles last month for $37.

If I drove my dually, I'd burn about $500 of diesel. If I drove my minivan, I'd use $170 in gasoline.