Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Blacktes24]

Also see my post before this.

If you reduce the time from charging to driving by charging *late* and drive the SOC down to low values you will not have any measurable increased calendar aging.

This chart is only refering to *time at high SOC* You can go to 100% and down to below (for example) 50% during the drive and then having below 50% during the night and still have degradation according to this chart at the low SOC value.

If you need 80% you can carge to 80% just before the drive without cost in this graph.
View attachment 804094

Charging to higher SOC most often means bigger cycles (otherwise most people do not need to charge to higher SOC). Bigger cycles means more cyclic aging. But this still is only a fraction of calendar aging.

For you ( @Blacktes24 ) if you “need” the power and drive only a little daily ( i.e do not drive the SOC down) you need to choose between more power or lower calendar aging. A active choice knowing the facts behind is a good thing.
There is nothing wrong with choosing power

The warmer the battery is, the more power until the max output of the engines. A just finished charging session means hotter battery and more power, so the SOC where the power starts reducing is lower.
At the same batt temperature the maximum battery power is around 85% SOC.

Thanks for the reply and the knowledge! Just got the car so I a learning a lot still!

 

[Apprunner]

Ah ok. Thats disappointing as performance starts dropping quite a bit from 85-60%. I need to research more I guess on how I should charge. Is 90% all the time ok?

You'll get to 60mph at ~3.2s when you are around 80%. At 50%, its more like 3.4s and then goes to 3.6s around 30%. In the quarter mile, you'll lose about the same amount of seconds. People have done this test numerous times. The performance doesn't fall off a cliff like people think.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You'll get to 60mph at ~3.2s when you are around 80%. At 50%, its more like 3.4s and then goes to 3.6s around 30%. In the quarter mile, you'll lose about the same amount of seconds. People have done this test numerous times. The performance doesn't fall off a cliff like people think.

In their defense, that is a noticeable difference. The driver could definitely tell. I run at relatively low SOC most of the time now and I still manage to keep up with traffic. It’s tough, but I manage.

Upside is it saves your tires a bit.

Makes those 100% charges more special.

 

[AAKEE]

The driver could definitely tell. I run at relatively low SOC most of the time now and I still manage to keep up with traffic. It’s tough, but I manage.

Barely keeping up

Upside is it saves your tires a bit.

Makes those 100% charges more special.

This is how I do it as well. I also charge full some times for the power and the power actually feels more this way.
Having the same power any day call for the ”get used to it effect”.

Even in my 500hp 1000kg hobby car this set in a bit in in the season. My first reaction is always ”it doesnt run as it should, something is wrong”.

 

[Steve446]

In their defense, that is a noticeable difference. The driver could definitely tell. I run at relatively low SOC most of the time now and I still manage to keep up with traffic. It’s tough, but I manage.

Upside is it saves your tires a bit.

Makes those 100% charges more special.

Indeed, it's still more than fast enough to give me a ticket right down to about 10%

 

[Randy-12]

Received my Model 3 RWD yesterday
Charge was at 76% at pick up yard.

When I got home it was at 69%
I only have level 1 charging at my rental at this point.

So I plugged in 112v @ 12 amps
Car said 17 hr 40 min to charge to 100%

This morning I unplugged at 100% with 25 mins remaining.

Charging stats said that I consumed 18 kwh

Am I on the curve ok?

Still working with everyone here to get level 2 but might be a while.

 

[Blacktes24]

You'll get to 60mph at ~3.2s when you are around 80%. At 50%, its more like 3.4s and then goes to 3.6s around 30%. In the quarter mile, you'll lose about the same amount of seconds. People have done this test numerous times. The performance doesn't fall off a cliff like people think.

ah ok. i've seen dyno numbers and based on that i'd have expected a much bigger drop in acceleration. Dyno shows close to 100 hp drop from 90% to 45%. This makes me happy if the acceleration really isn't that much diff and still 3.6 0-60 at 30%.

I've only got to drive the car once and that was on the way home from picking it up and gave one ride that day and it did still very fast at 35% so you're probably right! But like I said the numbers don't add up strictly going on dyno numbers.

 

[Apprunner]

ah ok. i've seen dyno numbers and based on that i'd have expected a much bigger drop in acceleration. Dyno shows close to 100 hp drop from 90% to 45%. This makes me happy if the acceleration really isn't that much diff and still 3.6 0-60 at 30%.

I've only got to drive the car once and that was on the way home from picking it up and gave one ride that day and it did still very fast at 35% so you're probably right! But like I said the numbers don't add up strictly going on dyno numbers.

The caveat is that 0.5s is actually a big drop in a drag race. On the street, 0-60 in mid/high 3s is pretty quick but you its a noticeable drop from low 3s. I hear the Plaid motors are even better at keeping the acceleration consistent at low SoC.

 

[Blacktes24]

The caveat is that 0.5s is actually a big drop in a drag race. On the street, 0-60 in mid/high 3s is pretty quick but you its a noticeable drop from low 3s. I hear the Plaid motors are even better at keeping the acceleration consistent at low SoC.

oh yes i know it's a big diff. i've been into cars my whole life. i just was thinking dropping from 400-300 hp would drop prob a second in 0-60. I can live with .2 to .4 slower in 0-60 at lower SOC.

And I've heard that as well. The Plaid keeps nearly the same acceleration at all SOC.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Dyno shows close to 100 hp drop from 90% to 45%. This makes me happy if the acceleration really isn't that much diff and still 3.6 0-60 at 30%.

HP peak is not reached until 45mph or so (been a while since I looked at the numbers). It takes very little power (nearly zero!) to accelerate fast at low speed (torque * RPM). You just need the torque to not drop off much with SOC and initial kick will be unaffected. If you look at those torque curves (or for HP curves, look for constant initial slope and where the HP starts to roll off from that straight line) I think you’ll see it is relatively well maintained at lower SOC at low speeds. Might be a little lower but nothing like the HP impact %. So that’s why the 0-60 numbers aren’t impacted quite proportional to HP change - the 0-45 run doesn’t require max power! At lower SOC you’ll start to have that peak power occur at (say) 40mph - still, 0-40mph is relatively unchanged. You lose ground from ~40-60mph.

More practical impact of low SOC to preserve your battery capacity is loss of acceleration at highway speeds, where the HP reduction is directly noticeable. Basically anything above 45mph, a loss of kick is noticeable - but practically speaking it is still fine.

Anyway that is why preserving your battery (reducing calendar aging) by using lower SOC still results in a very driveable car.

 

[Apprunner]

HP peak is not reached until 45mph or so (been a while since I looked at the numbers). It takes very little power (nearly zero!) to accelerate fast at low speed (torque * RPM). You just need the torque to not drop off much with SOC and initial kick will be unaffected. If you look at those torque curves (or for HP curves, look for constant initial slope and where the HP starts to roll off from that straight line) I think you’ll see it is relatively well maintained at lower SOC at low speeds. Might be a little lower but nothing like the HP impact %. So that’s why the 0-60 numbers aren’t impacted quite proportional to HP change - the 0-45 run doesn’t require max power! At lower SOC you’ll start to have that peak power occur at (say) 40mph - still, 0-40mph is relatively unchanged. You lose ground from ~40-60mph.

More practical impact of low SOC to preserve your battery capacity is loss of acceleration at highway speeds, where the HP reduction is directly noticeable. Basically anything above 45mph, a loss of kick is noticeable - but practically speaking it is still fine.

Anyway that is why preserving your battery (reducing calendar aging) by using lower SOC still results in a very driveable car.

Great explanation. It’s weird that the 0.5s difference seems to hold at the quarter mile too per the video I linked. I rarely find a need for that extra power to smoke most things. Tesla power trains are something else.

 

[STS-134]

oh yes i know it's a big diff. i've been into cars my whole life. i just was thinking dropping from 400-300 hp would drop prob a second in 0-60. I can live with .2 to .4 slower in 0-60 at lower SOC.

And I've heard that as well. The Plaid keeps nearly the same acceleration at all SOC.

The big advantage of the Plaid isn't the 0-60 time, it's the 60-130 time. And to be honest, the Model 3 sucks big time in that category, no matter which variant you're talking about.

 

[julio181184]

Hi TMC,
First off I drive a August 2019 build. I know there is battery degradation and I have never checked how many miles I get on a full charge so I decided to check on my app today and it seems I only get 222 miles to a full charge. Are other SR+ owners getting the same mileage?

My Tesla m3SR+ 2019 charge to 100% Only made 207 miles.

 

[Steve446]

The big advantage of the Plaid isn't the 0-60 time, it's the 60-130 time. And to be honest, the Model 3 sucks big time in that category, no matter which variant you're talking about.

I understand your comments and of course, different countries can have different situations, speed limits and driving habits. But, I will say that my M3 AWD absolutely smokes anything else on the road here in France between 80-120 KM/h

 

[AAKEE]

I understand your comments and of course, different countries can have different situations, speed limits and driving habits. But, I will say that my M3 AWD absolutely smokes anything else on the road here in France between 80-120 KM/h

If you are used to high performance ICE cars you feel a distinct difference above about 50mph/80km/h where the M3P starts loosing power quite quick with increasing speed.

My hobby car does 0-100kph/0-60mph on about the same time but 80-120kph on about half the time.
Its a huge decrease in power above 100kph in the M3P.

 

[Mod3Benny]

I’ll be picking up a M3P in the coming months and would like some help with charging and battery longevity. My apartment complex does not have any outlets or charging stations built into the complex. There is a Electrify America charging station across the street from my complex that offers CCS and CHAdeMO charging. Is CCS considered DC charging? I tried to look for a CCS adapter and it’s super expensive… I 100% WFH so I don’t have a place to charge during the day. Any advice? TIA!

 

[Apprunner]

I’ll be picking up a M3P in the coming months and would like some help with charging and battery longevity. My apartment complex does not have any outlets or charging stations built into the complex. There is a Electrify America charging station across the street from my complex that offers CCS and CHAdeMO charging. Is CCS considered DC charging? I tried to look for a CCS adapter and it’s super expensive… I 100% WFH so I don’t have a place to charge during the day. Any advice? TIA!

Teslas need an adapter for CCS and Chademo DC fast charging. Very expensive to go that route. Superchargers are Tesla's proprietary DC fast charging network and most users only use Superchargers for DC fast charging but also pretty expensive. EVs don't save you that much money if you have to use DC fast chargers as the primary way to charge the car.

 

[STS-134]

I’ll be picking up a M3P in the coming months and would like some help with charging and battery longevity. My apartment complex does not have any outlets or charging stations built into the complex. There is a Electrify America charging station across the street from my complex that offers CCS and CHAdeMO charging. Is CCS considered DC charging? I tried to look for a CCS adapter and it’s super expensive… I 100% WFH so I don’t have a place to charge during the day. Any advice? TIA!

CCS is DC charging and is detrimental to battery longevity. Find an AC charger, either a Tesla Destination Charger or something that uses the J1772 adapter.

 

[Steve446]

If you are used to high performance ICE cars you feel a distinct difference above about 50mph/80km/h where the M3P starts loosing power quite quick with increasing speed.

My hobby car does 0-100kph/0-60mph on about the same time but 80-120kph on about half the time.
Its a huge decrease in power above 100kph in the M3P.

Fair comment. Is that because you are close(r) to the optimum torque in those speed ranges? On a related topic, I've found a GSheets table showing the acceleration for the M3 SR3+, AWD and P 2019 versions - interesting to see the differences with the P3 clearly first to100 kph. I guess that the power drop off might be the same for all three above 100 kph but when superposing the curves by eye, the P and AWD seem closer at that point?

 

[gabrielschulho]

How come when I charge my car at home using the basic 110V charger it chooses to lower the draw from the max 12 A to 9 A? I was only getting 3 mi/h of charge and it was drawing 9 A. I cranked it back to 12 A. Still, I don't get why it went down to 9 A on it's own.