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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

Yes. The lower the SOC is, the lower the degradation. If you charge daily, you could set the schedule to have the charge finished shortly before your first drive for the day, this will lower the average SOC and keep the degradation low.

No problem using the power for short bursts. Below 20% SOC, perhaps it is a good idea to not use too much power too often( its slower anyway so).

I like power and to hard acceleration and have still not almost any range after 41.000km.

If yo start testing the top speed often and do a lot of acceleration to 200kph or more it could cause some more degradation but shorts bursts probably do not wear much at all.

Interesting… what are your thoughts on this?

Do Electric Car (EV) Batteries Degrade Over Time? - Midtronics


Sadly, I don't have a charger at home. So I can only charge at work or use superchargers. But when using Supercharger. I only charge 10-20% not a full charge. I'm trying to keep the battery mostly at 50-55% and sometimes charge it when it's at 20%.

When do you think i should do a full 100% charge? I haven't done that yet. The car is like 3 weeks old almost. I'm thinking soon I may. Maybe start tomorrow? Since I'll be away from work and charger? Also what is the best way to track the degradation any free tools?

Thanks soo much for all your input! @AAKEE
 
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Curious what you guys make of this... Just signed up for TeslaFi, charged to 100%. My car has been massively above average degradation since new, its a 2019 dual motor. Looks like its showing ~266 at 100% with 34,500 miles. It was around 288 with a few thousand, steadily dropped since. Maybe two dozen supercharger sessions, moderate climate, 98% 12kW home charging, heavy on the throttle. Usually would charge between 65-45 for most of the first 10K or so, bumped it up to 75, and been at 82% for a while. Usually arrive back home around 50%, below 40% is very rare aside from trips. Almost never charge to 90% or above.

DED.png
 
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  • Informative
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Interesting… what are your thoughts on this?

Do Electric Car (EV) Batteries Degrade Over Time? - Midtronics


Sadly, I don't have a charger at home. So I can only charge at work or use superchargers. But when using Supercharger. I only charge 10-20% not a full charge. I'm trying to keep the battery mostly at 50-55% and sometimes charge it when it's at 20%.

When do you think i should do a full 100% charge? I haven't done that yet. The car is like 3 weeks old almost. I'm thinking soon I may. Maybe start tomorrow? Since I'll be away from work and charger? Also what is the best way to track the degradation any free tools?

Thanks soo much for all your input! @AAKEE

That website seems out of date. Have you ever read the temp on your car or even used track mode. It takes so much abuse before the battery starts heating up. That occasional launch will do nothing in terms of heat as the battery is actively cooled. You gotta go full throttle for a lap or two on a track to get the battery heated. Superchargers are different but the BMS actively throttles down charge at different states to protect its longevity.

Also, batteries don't cost $200/kwh. The 75kwh pack probably costs more like $10k. You probably don't need to do a full 100% charge for recalibration on such a new car. I've probably charged to 100% maybe 3 times in my 3 years of ownership. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
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That website seems out of date. Have you ever read the temp on your car or even used track mode. It takes so much abuse before the battery starts heating up. That occasional launch will do nothing in terms of heat as the battery is actively cooled. You gotta go full throttle for a lap or two on a track to get the battery heated. Superchargers are different but the BMS actively throttles down charge at different states to protect its longevity.

Also, batteries don't cost $200/kwh. The 75kwh pack probably costs more like $10k. You probably don't need to do a full 100% charge for recalibration on such a new car. I've probably charged to 100% maybe 3 times in my 3 years of ownership. I wouldn't worry about it.
Thanks! How do you charge your car? Do you follow @AAKEE strategy or..?
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,395
17,039
San Diego
An update on my march 2021 Model 3 Perf with E3LD 82.1 FPWN.
probably in my last update of 7/10 days ago it was near 77,8-78 kWh with BMS that recalculted capacity from a low value of 73.9.
Here the today score: 78,7 kWh and Range at about 497-498 km. 227-228 CAC
View attachment 806300

Bizarre behavior, unusual, but lucky for you! And presumably related to software update?

You’d think given the age of the vehicle you’d be pretty much done gaining energy at this point.

Need to do one of those carefully instrumented trips to see whether energy is actually there, haha (must use trip meter).

Wonder if a software update change resulting in estimation correction is going to show up in TeslaFi averages (depends on how many vehicles are affected - this could be very unusual)?

What SOC are you typically sitting at these days and have you done an actual 100% charge?
 
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Yes bizarre behavior...
I hope is a true better BMS calibration.
I plan to see when it stops to climb to perform a 100% charge and see the nominal remaining.
I'm a bit ashamed to say the way I'm charging since last 5 or 6 weeks . My routine of the use of car never changed.
I do 5 or 6 little trips every day (retutning home everytime) . I mean 5 or 6 km to 15-20 km max every trip. the trips are spaced by 2 to 3 hours where the car sits without sentry mode. I do from 25 to 80 km/day, it depends ...
I always charged from around 15%-20-25% to 55%-60%. so the car slips 2 to 3 hours at 55%-50% 45%.... until i recharge.
What changed in the last 6 weeks is that i have no more a safe way to charge in AC at home during night.
So, I charge from a free AC Tesla destination charger at 11kW placed in a Supercharger place. I have not so much time so usually Im able to charge only few kWh so I move the car 30 meters aside to the V3 Supercharger , I allow the battery to warm to 38-40°C and I charge to 62-63% (actually to 300-310 km range, but now I have to charge only to 60%-61% to achieve 300-305km). Usually I need no more than 10-12 mins.
I drive where i need to go and i return to home at 59% or 58%.
SO the difference is the AC vs. DC . Probably a not smart move in the long term , but actually (probably ) this is one of the reason the NFP increased so much along with some sorta of software change.
About Tesla FI reflecting an increase of the 2021 82.kWh battery fleet, I think it's impossible to see it because the graph is km related and not period related.
 

Dave EV

Active Member
Jun 23, 2009
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Earth
I don't think Sentry mode is on. At least the phone app shows it to be off. Does it matter that I leave the windows cracked and the trunk open?
No, that shouldn't matter. Eventually the car should go to sleep even if you leave the trunk open (admittedly I have not tried this).

What was your SOC when you parked it? It's not unusual for the car to go to sleep, recalculate SOC when the HV battery is disconnected, then when it wakes up it can jump a decent amount in one direction or the other.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,395
17,039
San Diego
I don't think Sentry mode is on. At least the phone app shows it to be off. Does it matter that I leave the windows cracked and the trunk open?
No probably not.

Change your Tesla password and don’t log in again on any third-party apps.
Turn off cabin overheat protection (generally not a problem after the first 10 hours though).
Turn off summon standby.
Disable Sentry mode entirely, or just at home if you have it defined.

As @Dave EV mentioned, some readjustment after parking for OCV correction is expected. The change can sometimes be large.

Look at the changes in SOC in the second day of no use and ignore what happens in the first 10-12 hours. The first 10-12 hours should always be ignored when examining phantom drain. (Realistically adjustments can be complete after just a few hours but practically one should wait that long.)

If the contactors don’t usually close when you get in the car, it is because your car is not sleeping and that will lead to a lot of drain, whatever the cause.

Here’s a typical 12V sleep/idle cycle with low drain, about 1 mile per day. The periods of driving (sometimes combined with charging, sometimes just floating) and Sentry use are very obvious intermediate voltages too. Always super easy to work out what is going on.

(Note: this may look different for the new “12V” lithium battery. Someone should rig up a 12V monitor (might need to be invasive, not sure) and track it and post the data! Would be interesting to see what sort of cycles we see. Maybe sleep power has been reduced to (would be possible to infer from the data, knowing the Li-12V pack capacity).)

DF502C3B-F017-4B48-861A-626B15BEEAFD.png
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,395
17,039
San Diego
I think it's impossible to see it because the graph is km related and not period related.
Yeah but you’d see all data points trending up if it were fleet wide, regardless of mileage. You might have to compare a plot taken a few months ago vs. one taken in a month or so, otherwise it is true the changes might be difficult to see. As I understand it the TeslaFi plots include multiple data points from each car as they go through their life (plotting range and mileage)? I say this because you can see that one outlier incorrect vehicle which clearly has multiple datapoints in the plots previously posted.
 
Is it normal for a Model 3 SR+ with less than 7540 miles to lose 4% battery overnight when not charging?

it is if you do high re-charges and got a slightly shoddily calibrated BMS and/or if you sit at 50% for a long time and then charge up to 80% or smth.

Actually, if you have the iron battery and dont regularly charge to 100% then thats completely normal. In fact losing up to 20% could be considered normal if you dont charge to 100% enough.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,395
17,039
San Diego
What do you mean by this? What are contactors?
Contactors are the things that make the loud double clunk when connecting and more quiet clunk when disconnecting. They are essentially large switches that put the high voltage pack in circuit and connect it to the vehicle HV harnesses (motors, DC-DC, etc.). When the car is sleeping the pack and its integrated monitoring circuitry are disconnected from the car with the contactors open. The 12V battery runs a minimum of 12V circuitry when the contactors are open (usually less than 10W) but can briefly power the vehicle computer, which commands the contactors to close as soon as it is detected that the car needs to be used, putting it in idle mode which consumes between 150W and 300W, depending on whether screen is on, 12V battery is charging, etc.

To run any higher functioning features (e.g. Sentry, or to use the app) the car has to be in idle mode.

Sleep - contactors open
Idle - contactors closed

So if the car is sleeping appropriately, the contactors will close nearly every time when you first get in the vehicle (occasionally, about 1 hour each day, the car will be awake in order to charge the 12V, in which case you will not hear the clunk and the car will respond a bit more quickly).
 
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Contactors are the things that make the loud double clunk when connecting and more quiet clunk when disconnecting. They are essentially large switches that put the high voltage pack in circuit and connect it to the vehicle HV harnesses (motors, DC-DC, etc.). When the car is sleeping the pack and its integrated monitoring circuitry are disconnected from the car with the contactors open. The 12V battery runs a minimum of 12V circuitry when the contactors are open (usually less than 10W) but can briefly power the vehicle computer, which commands the contactors to close as soon as it is detected that the car needs to be used, putting it in idle mode which consumes between 150W and 300W, depending on whether screen is on, 12V battery is charging, etc.

To run any higher functioning features (e.g. Sentry, or to use the app) the car has to be in idle mode.

Sleep - contactors open
Idle - contactors closed

So if the car is sleeping appropriately, the contactors will close nearly every time when you first get in the vehicle (occasionally, about 1 hour each day, the car will be awake in order to charge the 12V, in which case you will not hear the clunk and the car will respond a bit more quickly).
OK. I see. So, if the car is able to properly sleep, and it's not on a charger, then I should hear this sound almost every time I open the door, right? Is there a list of things I can check that prevent the car from sleeping?
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,395
17,039
San Diego
So, if the car is able to properly sleep, and it's not on a charger, then I should hear this sound almost every time I open the door, right?

Even if it is on a charger you should hear it if it is not actively charging. However not every time you open the door - every time you open the door after leaving it for a bit, because it takes some time (a few minutes assuming it doesn’t need to charge the 12V) after leaving the car alone for it to “relax” and open the contactors again and go to sleep.

Is there a list of things I can check that prevent the car from sleeping?

Listed above. Main ones are sentry, summon standby, bad third-party apps, and other “obvious” features which need the car in heightened state. Cabin overheat protection too, but only for 10 hours (it doesn’t do anything after that).
 

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