Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Quickst]

Elon

If Elon said that he would be lambasted because people would say he is giving a different recommendation than what the Tesla manual says.

However the Tesla manual is in full agreement. Charge to between 50-90% for daily driving. A SoC55 fits within that range. It does not say charge to 90%. I don't know why people think the Tesla manual says to charge to 90%

 

[Quickst]

Question:

SoC40 5pm

I can charge vehicle on way home to 57% such that it is 55% on arrival to home at 7pm

If don't charge on way home I will arrive with 36%

I can also start charge 1030am tomorrow to capture solar and charge from 36% to 55% tomorrow. Don't need car until 3pm tomorrow

What's opinion re best way to charge - on way home or tomorrow? Cost of charge minimal

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Question:

SoC40 5pm

I can charge vehicle on way home to 57% such that it is 55% on arrival to home at 7pm

If don't charge on way home I will arrive with 36%

I can also start charge 1030am tomorrow to capture solar and charge from 36% to 55% tomorrow. Don't need car until 3pm tomorrow

What's opinion re best way to charge - on way home or tomorrow? Cost of charge minimal

Keep it simple, charge at home and don’t go out of your way (or even if it’s on your way) to charge elsewhere. Even if a supercharger or charge point is in the parking lot of the business or store you are stopping at, it is still incredibly inconvenient - you have to park in a special spot, you have to plug in, you might have to do something to pay, etc.

Just plug in at home and forget about cycle depth.

This is supposed to be easy and convenient (charging at home and only at home is the biggest benefit of EV ownership). There is basically no reason to do anything special to preserve the battery if it makes anything about ownership more annoying or less convenient.

 

[Quickst]

it is still incredibly inconvenient

Yes I only charge on way home if
1) I have to stop at the shops
2) if charging bag at shops is available

I don't sit around waiting for a charging spot

 

[KenC]

From Teslalogger's database:

 

[AAKEE]

Great study. Did you share this with Elon on Twitter, what is his take? Just curious

This is not a matter of a single study, there is litterally hundreds of research reports showing the same.

Tesla know this, of course, as Panasonic as Teslas early partner. And all the other manufacturers as well.

But Tesla has no purpose of trying to reduce the degradation to a mininum.

After safety, our goal is to make every Tesla the most fun you could possibly have in a vehicle.

So they probably have an idea that it should be very easy to own a Tesla EV.
We, the users, dosn’t not need to be battery engineers. Tesla does that for us.

Tesla most certainly like to offer the widest usage of their EV’s with a minimum of rules, minimum of need-to-know and maximum flexibility.

The very few do and don’ts Tesla have in their manuals make complete sense and is easy to understand.

On the forums and among owners there is a lot of myths. That is, rumors that people think they know as facts, that is simply not true.
Teslas advices are just about the same as I would say. The problem is not Teslas advice but the things people believe that tesla says.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

From Teslalogger's database:
View attachment 959534

Note that having the x-axis denominated in mileage probably makes for a worse graph. It’s a multi-variable effect with time , temp, and use primarily (a 3D graph would be better and capture more of the picture, with x being age, Y being mileage, and z being capacity - that would stretch out and reduce some of the noise).

This graph is like looking sideways at such a plot (surface), so you see all the bumps on the surface - for example, the points that are high above the fitted curve are more likely vehicles that were driven more quickly to high mileage.

And of course there is the probably misclassified data in this plot too. (E.g. Clearly there is a 2020 vehicle in there too!)

 

[johnny_cakes]

And of course there is the probably misclassified data in this plot too. (E.g. Clearly there is a 2020 vehicle in there too!)

I think there are a lot of 2020 models in that chart and not because of misclassification. Teslalogger groups M3 SR+ into these categories:

• M3 SR+ (presumably for 2017 - 2020)
• M3 SR+ 2021
• M3 SR+ LFP
• M3 SR+ LFP 2021

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

not because of misclassification

However this would be misclassification since it makes no sense to group 2020 with 2018/2019. You can’t compare them that way. You can compare them, just not that way.

 

[Quickst]

Does leaving the charging plug in the charging port once charging stopped at charging limit stop the BMS interrogating for open circuit voltage?

 

[AAKEE]

Does leaving the charging plug in the charging port once charging stopped at charging limit stop the BMS interrogating for open circuit voltage?

Nope.

 

[K819]

From Teslalogger's database:
View attachment 959534

this is only the EPA estimate, based on battery degradation. Actual is much lower

 

[Candleflame]

Anybody have any insight to the Model 3/Y battery cooling logic? My Chevrolet Volt had a very aggressive battery cooling logic trying to keep battery less than 30C as soon as plugged in or driving. Of course smaller battery…

Somewhat. I know that battery cooling while resting is largely a myth. I reckon it DOES cool the battery actively but the treshold is quite high and same as driving i.e. >45C so this never happens.

If I drive the car in the north australian summerheat i.e. 40C the battery usually sits at 35C.

Operating temperature while driving is 45C. There is a range where it actively heats the battery and where it actively cools the battery which can be read out with SMT and I cant remember the exact values. I think >45C it cools and sub -7c (or was it -3C?) it actively heats the battery while driving. Im sure the tresholds will be different for heat pump cars.

 

[PianoAl]

3.5 miles/kWh

Although I prefer a unit of efficiency that increases as efficiency increases, you'll find it easier to go with the flow and use the apparent standard Wh/mile (286 Wh/mile in this case).

 

[Candleflame]

Its heating up in Vegas now 110F (43C). Having access to service mode has given me inside peek at battery temps and octovalve modes.

45C battery temps are normal during usage.

I do not notice any active battery cooling whatsoever through the use of the heat pump. It just circulates coolant passively and hopes temp will eventually go down. Maybe I am not catchinh it during driving?

Even when I plug in inside a hot garage the battery just remains with 45C coolant circulating with 45C battery. No heat pump engaged to actively pull heat out of battery coolant loop. In the morning you are lucky if the battery eventually got to the same temp as hot 35C garage.

The only active battery cooling I have seen is with Track Mode. Heat pump will engage and Battery coolant loop will route through the chiller and cool the battery coolant to 23C.

Anybody have any insight to the Model 3/Y battery cooling logic? My Chevrolet Volt had a very aggressive battery cooling logic trying to keep battery less than 30C as soon as plugged in or driving. Of course smaller battery…

if i remember ill plug my dongle in and just have a look in SMT, it does list the temps for cooling and heating there as per my post above.

 

[Quickst]

I notice cabin temps gong up after parking a vehicle even if outside ambient air is colder even with cabin climate control to off

I put this down to the circulation of coolant after parking which takes heat from inverter and motors and recycles it to the cabin.


Today for example, i drove 50km - general city driving, and the cabin temp set to 20C
1hr after parking the cabin temp went up to 24C. The temp didnt stay at 24C
The external ambient air temp was 19C

 

[Candleflame]

just had a look. The car will actively cool the battery above 55C, above 30C it will passively cool (presumably in older cars via air vent and newer cars via heatsyphoning), and below -7C it will actively heat the battery.

 

[Tslylr]

The estimate is just that, an estimate. It is based on your driving habits, environment, etc. Don't sweat it. Some days my LR (I know it's not an LFP) gets 354, some days it's 360's.

It isn’t based on your habbits, it is based on stndardized average consumption for specific model. So the lowering milage is degradation of battery. Can go up sometimes after rebalancing of pack. Range based on circumstences is available in consumption app in car.

 

[navguy12]

I notice cabin temps gong up after parking a vehicle even if outside ambient air is colder even with cabin climate control to off

I put this down to the circulation of coolant after parking which takes heat from inverter and motors and recycles it to the cabin.


Today for example, i drove 50km - general city driving, and the cabin temp set to 20C
1hr after parking the cabin temp went up to 24C. The temp didnt stay at 24C
The external ambient air temp was 19C

Was it sunny?

 

[KenC]

just had a look. The car will actively cool the battery above 55C, above 30C it will passively cool (presumably in older cars via air vent and newer cars via heatsyphoning), and below -7C it will actively heat the battery.

Presumably you were looking at your SMT data?