Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[kailm]

Normal. BMS cannot tell if you drive track or uphill. That range is an estimation of voltage on the pack.

edit:
I see i got 2 disagrees. Not sure on what.
Range estimation is voltage on the pack, else how would you know?
BMS also gives calculation at EPA speeds and flat roads.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

BMS cannot tell if you drive track or uphill.

That's true. The meter in the car only monitors energy usage.

That range is an estimation of voltage on the pack.

The "rated miles" next to the battery icon is an estimation of the energy left in the pack. It's generally fairly accurate, but isn't perfect.

EDIT: deleted some text which was intended for a post in another thread...

 

[jjrandorin]

I have a 3rd Qtr 2018 M3P with 16K miles at one year since delivery, and I have lost 19 miles on average at only 90%, charging only to 260. I am not happy at all with a 6% loss so far, which doesn't seem sustainable for long or short term ownership. :-(

And how and when do you actually charge? I have the same car with 14k miles on it and zero rated loss. My 90% charge is still 279. I charge to 90% and charge every time my car hits my garage. zero supercharging.

Would be interesting to hear if you charge the same as I do, or if you charge every few days, or charge to 80% or some other charging regimine

 

[Led Jetson]

And how and when do you actually charge? I have the same car with 14k miles on it and zero rated loss. My 90% charge is still 279. I charge to 90% and charge every time my car hits my garage. zero supercharging.

Would be interesting to hear if you charge the same as I do, or if you charge every few days, or charge to 80% or some other charging regimine

For the first eight months, I was getting by using the 110 plug, and Supercharger doing mostly 80-20 or 90-20. I was delayed in getting plugged in properly at home. Telsa stiffed me on two different referrals, one was or the Tesla Home Charger that the sales person never put the referral code in for, and then the 2nd referral for the photo into space, after my wife bought one. We finally installed two 220V plugs about two months ago, so now after some more reading and research I am charging everyday to 90%. It seems I need to do that for some more time to see what happens.

It's been frustrating to deal with Tesla to say the least, I could go on and on. But we did make a 3,000 mile road trip last month and had zero problems, exact maybe a couple extra needed charges, as the car has lost 20 miles when trying to charge to 95-100%.

 

[jjrandorin]

For the first eight months, I was getting by using the 110 plug, and Supercharger doing mostly 80-20 or 90-20. I was delayed in getting plugged in properly at home. Telsa stiffed me on two different referrals, one was or the Tesla Home Charger that the sales person never put the referral code in for, and then the 2nd referral for the photo into space, after my wife bought one. We finally installed two 220V plugs about two months ago, so now after some more reading and research I am charging everyday to 90%. It seems I need to do that for some more time to see what happens.

It's been frustrating to deal with Tesla to say the least, I could go on and on. But we did make a 3,000 mile road trip last month and had zero problems, exact maybe a couple extra needed charges, as the car has lost 20 miles when trying to charge to 95-100%.

Thanks for the information. So we charged our cars completely differently, in that your car was charged either at superchargers from 20% to either 80 or 90% (by definition that would be every few days, not daily), or charging on 110.

As I mentioned, for me, My car was supercharged only a few times the first couple weeks while I was waiting for my appointment to get the HPWC installed. Its been charged every night at home since that. My daily commute is approximately 80 actual miles, which tends to translate to between 85 to 110 "tesla" miles depending on weather, traffic, etc. So, every night when I get home, my "miles" range is somewhere between 200 and 180, and I plug in and charge on a 60amp circuit, so at 44 miles per hour charge rate.

I find it very interesting that, in almost all of these threads that complain about a drop in rated range number, the two things that seem to be constantly reported are:

1. A difference since the latest firmwares, and
2. almost no one reporting the issue charges like I do, which is "set to 90% charge every day and basically dont think about it"

I am still waiting for someone with "my" charging profile, which is basically what tesla recommended in the manual (keep it plugged in) and charging to the top line in the charging screen that says "daily", to report a large drop in rated miles.

It will be interesting to see if you charge to 90% every day for a couple of weeks or so AND plug in every single time your car hits your garage, no matter how short your drive (which is what I do), to see if your range changes back, or you "recover" some of it.

 

[Dariushd]

And how and when do you actually charge? I have the same car with 14k miles on it and zero rated loss. My 90% charge is still 279. I charge to 90% and charge every time my car hits my garage. zero supercharging.

Would be interesting to hear if you charge the same as I do, or if you charge every few days, or charge to 80% or some other charging regimine

I charge pretty much exclusively at home to 80% on my Tesla wall charger. I’ve supercharged maybe 4-5 times ever and my last supercharge was maybe 5 months ago. Very occasionally I charge at work off a 120v outlet, this I’ve done me 8-10 times. But only once during this 2 month period of degradation.

 

[Dariushd]

Thanks for the information. So we charged our cars completely differently, in that your car was charged either at superchargers from 20% to either 80 or 90% (by definition that would be every few days, not daily), or charging on 110.

As I mentioned, for me, My car was supercharged only a few times the first couple weeks while I was waiting for my appointment to get the HPWC installed. Its been charged every night at home since that. My daily commute is approximately 80 actual miles, which tends to translate to between 85 to 110 "tesla" miles depending on weather, traffic, etc. So, every night when I get home, my "miles" range is somewhere between 200 and 180, and I plug in and charge on a 60amp circuit, so at 44 miles per hour charge rate.

I find it very interesting that, in almost all of these threads that complain about a drop in rated range number, the two things that seem to be constantly reported are:

1. A difference since the latest firmwares, and
2. almost no one reporting the issue charges like I do, which is "set to 90% charge every day and basically dont think about it"

I am still waiting for someone with "my" charging profile, which is basically what tesla recommended in the manual (keep it plugged in) and charging to the top line in the charging screen that says "daily", to report a large drop in rated miles.

It will be interesting to see if you charge to 90% every day for a couple of weeks or so AND plug in every single time your car hits your garage, no matter how short your drive (which is what I do), to see if your range changes back, or you "recover" some of it.

That’s very close to what I do with my wall charger, but to 80% not 90%. And as I mentioned, I’m at just over 2% loss. Tesla mentioned I should do a 100% charge and run it down, I did that once with no change. I’ll do it again and run down to 20% and see. But I’m fairly sure I’ll be at 245 at 80% for a week or so and then I’ll start seeing it at 244. That’s been the case the last 2ish months. Lose 1 mile every 10 or so days.

 

[jjrandorin]

That’s very close to what I do with my wall charger, but to 80% not 90%. And as I mentioned, I’m at just over 2% loss. Tesla mentioned I should do a 100% charge and run it down, I did that once with no change. I’ll do it again and run down to 20% and see. But I’m fairly sure I’ll be at 245 at 80% for a week or so and then I’ll start seeing it at 244. That’s been the case the last 2ish months. Lose 1 mile every 10 or so days.

Have you tried 90% instead of 80%? I am not saying its better for the battery, its likely "slightly" worse... but if you charge to 80% and I charge to 90% then we are not doing the same thing. I am just suggesting doing what I am doing for a couple of weeks (which wont hurt anything for the long term) and see if it changes, if you charge every day like I do.

 

[UltralightBeam]

You can see from many of the apps out there that with the latest updates in September, the efficiency has gone way down form the norm.

 

[voip-ninja]

Ran the battery down to 10% over the past week and in that time car was updated to V10.

Charged car tonight with my HPWC which is on 50 amp circuit.
Original charge estimate was for 7 hours. At 7 hours the car showed 30 minutes of charging left and it stayed this way for over an hour with no change in estimated range which shows 284 miles.
Not sure if this long crawling charge time involved cell rebalance or is just normal.

So shown range is down 8.4% from when car was new.

I will charge car to 90% nightly for next week or two and see if there is any change.
If not will contact Tesla and ask for battery health report.

 

[PoitNarf]

Ran the battery down to 10% over the past week and in that time car was updated to V10.

Charged car tonight with my HPWC which is on 50 amp circuit.
Original charge estimate was for 7 hours. At 7 hours the car showed 30 minutes of charging left and it stayed this way for over an hour with no change in estimated range which shows 284 miles.
Not sure if this long crawling charge time involved cell rebalance or is just normal.

So shown range is down 8.4% from when car was new.

I will charge car to 90% nightly for next week or two and see if there is any change.
If not will contact Tesla and ask for battery health report.

What percent did you charge it to after running it down to 10%?

 

[voip-ninja]

What percent did you charge it to after running it down to 10%?

100

 

[ngogas]

284 at 100% hmm... doesn’t look good.

 

[brianman]

Prior Tesla models

Prior Tesla firmware not models...

93% Standard / 100% Range
morphed to
90% Daily / 100% Trip

It is likely, although not 100% confirmed as far as I know, that the Model 3 also doesn't begin balancing until SOC hits 93%.

Consensus as I understood it was that the rebalancing threshold moved when Standard was replaced with Daily which affected S and X when they got that firmware upgrade. For Model 3, there was never a firmware version with Standard or 93% related behavior.​

 

[bigroccrek]

I just installed 2019.32.11.1 yesterday and this morning an 80% charge is now only 235 miles!! The equates to a 100% charge being about 290 miles range. It has gotten worse with 32.11.1 than it was with V10. I am going to charge it to 100% tonight and see where it tops out and if only 290 I think it is time for a call to Tesla.

 

[vjason]

LR AWD, 11K miles/10 months, full charge is about 296/298. Latest V10 build.

Full charged 3 times, supercharged maybe 5-6 "packs worth of capacity" total. During the week I keep the battery between 20 and 80, charging 2-3 times per week. The number is troubling, but I'm not worried as of yet. They owe my a glass roof and I may ask about it when it finally comes in.

I do find it interesting to watch the trip consumption graph on my 3 hours drives to the coast, really makes it easy to spot where your consumption and the cars estimate differ, and when.

 

[Rothgarr]

When you guys say to compare energy consumed, how do you go about this? Do you all use Teslafi or something? I assume you can't just look at the energy screen and jot down a number since it's constantly changing, right?

 

[Z PYD]

I've definitely seen a decrease in expected range starting with 32.2, and have only seen the range continue to decrease with 10.1 and 11. I haven't been able to view any changes in wh/mi yet but exploring TeslaFi further to see how to pull that detail.

 

[SammichLover]

Prior Tesla firmware not models...

93% Standard / 100% Range
morphed to
90% Daily / 100% Trip

Consensus as I understood it was that the rebalancing threshold moved when Standard was replaced with Daily which affected S and X when they got that firmware upgrade. For Model 3, there was never a firmware version with Standard or 93% related behavior.​

Have a link? Because I’ve seen some pretty good evidence that the 93% mark remained past the change to a slider for battery charging set point.

 

[bijan]

Have a link? Because I’ve seen some pretty good evidence that the 93% mark remained past the change to a slider for battery charging set point.

If you're asking about when the 93% rebalancing or whatever was changed to rebalancing at 90% probably no one outside Tesla can say definitively. What is clear is that when they changed to a slider the default value to charge to for daily was changed to 90% (from 93%).

Edit: That is to say model 3 had slider set to 90% as default from day 1 and there was never a time when default for daily was over 90%.