Stellavator
Member
I don't think you know, what you think you know.
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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
Stellavator
Member
Umm, that is exactly what is being discussed here. There are theories, but nobody knows, because Tesla won't tell us. Nobody but Tesla (battery engineers, not service center techs) can tell you for sure. And anybody who thinks they can, is greatly overestimating their understanding of the difference between opinion and fact.
yerEVan
Active Member
SammichLover
Banned
However there is a large territory between absolute certainty and know nothing and can’t have a reasonable estimate and evaluation of likelihoods. Your post is coming off as a nihilistic throwing up of hands.
I have a 2018 (September) build performance model (stealth). For a long time, the display has been showing 248-252 miles when at 90%. I’ve only charged to 100% a few times, and then it only showed 295 miles.
I charge to 90% daily, and have put about 19,000 miles on the car. I’ve tried to do a “calibration” by driving to ~10% and charging to 100%, but this made no difference. I have coworkers with a Performance model and LR AWD, and neither of them have more than 3% “degradation”. I also know an owner that autocrosses most weekends with numerous Supercharger uses, and he has ~2-3%.
I charge to 90% daily, and have put about 19,000 miles on the car. I’ve tried to do a “calibration” by driving to ~10% and charging to 100%, but this made no difference. I have coworkers with a Performance model and LR AWD, and neither of them have more than 3% “degradation”. I also know an owner that autocrosses most weekends with numerous Supercharger uses, and he has ~2-3%.
just adding a data point here.
after 25K miles in 18 months my TeslaFi range estimate is currently 308.98.
It never got the uptick to 325 and has stayed at 310 ever since I go it - so its dropped 1.02 miles.
It gets plugged in most nights with a 90% charge and a 60 mile commute plus other driving, then lots of weekend trips.
Interestingly, a few months back we went on a 1700 mile road trip, lots of supercharging, couple of days plugged into a hotel charger, then a bunch of days with no overnight charging.
When we got back, TeslaFi showed a dramatic drop (for me) in estimated range to 305, with 90% charge down to 274.
But now its back into the usual routine and the estimate back to 308/9 ish and the 90% @ 277/288, so I'm presupposing that the estimate may well be somewhat close.
after 25K miles in 18 months my TeslaFi range estimate is currently 308.98.
It never got the uptick to 325 and has stayed at 310 ever since I go it - so its dropped 1.02 miles.
It gets plugged in most nights with a 90% charge and a 60 mile commute plus other driving, then lots of weekend trips.
Interestingly, a few months back we went on a 1700 mile road trip, lots of supercharging, couple of days plugged into a hotel charger, then a bunch of days with no overnight charging.
When we got back, TeslaFi showed a dramatic drop (for me) in estimated range to 305, with 90% charge down to 274.
But now its back into the usual routine and the estimate back to 308/9 ish and the 90% @ 277/288, so I'm presupposing that the estimate may well be somewhat close.
WattsonXcelr8
Member
I have a model 3 performance purchased 2/19. Always charge to 80-90%. First trip to finger lakes and I try to charge to 100% and get 299 instead of what I purchased...a 310 mi range car. Up here in Finger Lakes I need that extra range. No chargera. Have an appt to take it to Tesla and see what they tell me.
Stellavator
Member
Not nihilistic at all. That's why I use the forums. The forums fill the space between absolute certainty and knowing nothing. It is a great source of help and information form a lot of bright people. But anyone who represents their opinion on these matters as a known fact, needs to check themselves a bit.However there is a large territory between absolute certainty and know nothing and can’t have a reasonable estimate and evaluation of likelihoods. Your post is coming off as a nihilistic throwing up of hands.
I have a model 3 Dual motor. Always charged to 90% and showed 277 miles. After the new software update I’m constantly seeing 272-273 miles when I charge 90%. Had the vehicle since May 2019 and have roughly 7k miles. Really weird and it bothers me a bit how I can suddenly loose 4-5 miles from my previous software update. My driving habits haven’t changed and my Wh/mile hasn’t really changed much either.
For everybody that is having this range issue following firmware updates you might want to watch this video:
If you have not seen it it may help to understand why all of a sudden so many of us are having "range issues" (myself included).
He suggests that Tesla has set aside a cushion of around 5kw for the cars with the 75kw battery. I would think that the cars with the smaller batteries it would amount to around the same percentage of the battery. If Tesla is carving out a part of the battery to give themselves a cushion against battery degradation I am not going to be pleased. I bought my LR RWD specifically for the range and now it is "evaporating" as I watch. I expected some battery degradation over time but nothing like what is currently happening and I say this because the service center keeps telling me that is all normal and it matches the "standard" of the Model 3 fleet. The item in the video that really catches my eye is where he talks about the "constant" being changed to hide the amount of loss.
You want to believe they are being truthful but I personally have my doubts and I really am having a hard time believing that all is just happening per the "norm" and has nothing to do with updates.
If you have not seen it it may help to understand why all of a sudden so many of us are having "range issues" (myself included).
He suggests that Tesla has set aside a cushion of around 5kw for the cars with the 75kw battery. I would think that the cars with the smaller batteries it would amount to around the same percentage of the battery. If Tesla is carving out a part of the battery to give themselves a cushion against battery degradation I am not going to be pleased. I bought my LR RWD specifically for the range and now it is "evaporating" as I watch. I expected some battery degradation over time but nothing like what is currently happening and I say this because the service center keeps telling me that is all normal and it matches the "standard" of the Model 3 fleet. The item in the video that really catches my eye is where he talks about the "constant" being changed to hide the amount of loss.
You want to believe they are being truthful but I personally have my doubts and I really am having a hard time believing that all is just happening per the "norm" and has nothing to do with updates.
UKNOWINVU2
Member
LR RWD - 32,000km (19,883miles)
Since range increase a 90% charge would always show me 470km. (292miles)
Right after V10 a 90% charge showed 455km. (283miles)
As of this morning a 90% charge is showing 429km. (267miles)
I was at the service center last night* and asked "why is my rated range dropping". They told me "with the new software updates that range is now based on your driving habits as it learns the way you drive and predicts your range accordingly". Tesla recommended I change my display to battery percentage.
(*Note: I was at SC for a failed upper control arm ball joint. It was squeaking, they replaced under warranty. Tesla told me the vendor did not clean out the burs in the ball joint which leads to premature failure.)
Since range increase a 90% charge would always show me 470km. (292miles)
Right after V10 a 90% charge showed 455km. (283miles)
As of this morning a 90% charge is showing 429km. (267miles)
I was at the service center last night* and asked "why is my rated range dropping". They told me "with the new software updates that range is now based on your driving habits as it learns the way you drive and predicts your range accordingly". Tesla recommended I change my display to battery percentage.
(*Note: I was at SC for a failed upper control arm ball joint. It was squeaking, they replaced under warranty. Tesla told me the vendor did not clean out the burs in the ball joint which leads to premature failure.)
Do you guys get this as well when charging to 100%? Says 290 miles at 100% but 30 mins remaining? Based on my 30mi/hr rate does it mean the battery really has 320 miles but is capped at 290 miles? Usually when I set to 80% it would say complete. I have a LR RWD.
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UKNOWINVU2
Member
A lot of thread indicate sc tells them it’s now based on driving habit to calculate range. Lots of folks argue against it saying those sc folks are miss informed. I don’t know as some of those skeptics don’t work for Tesla. Yet they also could be misinformed. So at this point I don’t know. I just know for certain at 90% my car get 262. Yuck.
MarcG
Active Member
Lol, if range indicated was truly based on driving habits, my estimated range would be 200 miles instead of 310.
No, that’s not what Tesla is doing. They do have an estimated value based on driving habits but that is not shown in the car, it’s available only through their API.
As for the charging to 100%, it takes an extra amount of time starting around 95% to rebalance the pack. That’s why you might see 30 minutes remaining, it doesn’t mean there are more miles of range to be gained.
No, that’s not what Tesla is doing. They do have an estimated value based on driving habits but that is not shown in the car, it’s available only through their API.
As for the charging to 100%, it takes an extra amount of time starting around 95% to rebalance the pack. That’s why you might see 30 minutes remaining, it doesn’t mean there are more miles of range to be gained.
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