Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Tam]

...Is that normal?...

There's a parameter to consider what's normal and abnormal.

There's a speed sign so we can know what's overspeeding, there's temperature number so we know when the water is really boiling or not, same with fever.

So, to answer your question: Yes. It is normal. It is only abnormal when your battery cannot be charged to 70% of your original capacity.

 

[ATPMSD]

To begin with that 254 figure is what you will get if you charge your car to 90%. Move the slider until it shows 100% and you should see something like 282 miles. And check out some of the posts suggested by @Sophias_dad.

 

[hlin07]

Is it normal? NO. Are there people suffering higher degradation, Yes. Will Tesla do anything about it? NO.

Now that's under the assumption that you have already calibrated your car to reflect the EPA rated range. If you haven't, I recommend watch some youtube videos and continue reading in the forum, this topic is SO COMMON.

Bottom line, if the range displayed after calibration still reflects what you currently have, then it's not normal. I consider normal to be where most people end up. If you know bell curve, most people fall within a certain spec. Your car if the range doesn't change will fall outside of what people consider normal.

I've learned to look at the percentage left after my normal commute to see if there's a big delta. Say if after 100 miles of normal driving, it used to say 40% battery life left, and today it still says 40% battery left. This likely suggests your car just need a little calibration.

 

[Icenks]

Hey thanks for all the replies.
Should out to all the Ottawa peeps, I’m in Toronto.

I guess I was expecting 3-4 % based on what I read up before. So I was surprised to see 11-12% after 22000km. As long as is normal it’s fine. Just didn’t want to hurt the battery due to ignorance. And I thought I did something wrong that degraded it 11%.

I know it’s an estimate, but there should be a
limited amount of error. So if it’s off by too much it could be a source of concern. But seems like my expectation is just off.

Just didn’t want to hurt the battery due to ignorance. And I thought I did something wrong that degraded it 11%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But seems like my expectation is just off.

Just as a datapoint, what do you generally charge the car to? In Ottawa, temperatures should be more modest so perhaps you should expect less capacity loss. But if you leave the car at 80% or 90%, I guess this is what we would expect - based on very limited data, it seems like 50-60% is a better level. However, if that's what you already do, it would be an interesting counterpoint to the "theory." For example, in a cooler climate, with the car generally stored at 70%, if there weren't simply battery-to-battery variation, I'd expect your car to do better than 11% after 1 year.

There's just debate here about whether or not this sort of loss is due to leaving the car at 80%+ in warm environments a lot, or whether it is mostly determined by random chance.

I used to think it was mostly random chance, but now I'm not so sure.

In reality, of course, it's definitely a mix of many factors.

 

[Icenks]

I usually charge it to 80. It seemed to be the consensus back then that 80 is ideal.
Changing it to 65 to 70 from now on.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is that normal? or should I schedule a service appointment? The warranty should still cover any repairs, right?

is it normal? yes.

Should you schedule a service appointment? No.

Will the warranty cover any repairs? As far as battery degradation goes, "The warranty" is 70% at 8 years 100 or 125k miles. Since you are at 11%, nothing will be covered unless or until you get to 30%.

Tesla will cancel any service appointment you make for degradation if its not 30% or greater, since that is what the warranty covers.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

after 4400 miles in a little longer than a year and a half

At 90% only able to drive 254 miles?

according to the website its range should be at around 315 miles.

Your car is a 2020 Model 3 Performance, and assuming you have 20” wheels selected, had 299 rated miles of energy when new. You have no heat pump and you have a smaller battery than the new 2021 vehicle, so the range is not the same.

So you have 6% capacity loss after a year and a half, probably with your car sitting at 90% most of the time.

Completely and totally normal. Perhaps even better than average!

If you want to feel better select 18” wheels in the Wheel Config menu. You’ll be at 304 rated miles (18”) of energy!

 

[Stone2022]

I just got a 2022 Model 3. I'm not getting near the mileage per charge as it shows on the display. I live 60 miles from work. However, when I arrive at work, I've used 75 miles worth of charge....???

 

[Sophias_dad]

I just got a 2022 Model 3. I'm not getting near the mileage per charge as it shows on the display. I live 60 miles from work. However, when I arrive at work, I've used 75 miles worth of charge....???

I don't know if that's a serious question. Please, oh please, do a search.

 

[Rocky_H]

It's December. I have a 2 mile drive home from work, and sometimes it uses 4 or 5 rated miles. Energy usage is really high when you start driving cold. It's definitely not going to use 1 rated mile to 1 distance mile when you have to heat also. The same battery provides the energy for distance + heat.

 

[jjrandorin]

I just got a 2022 Model 3. I'm not getting near the mileage per charge as it shows on the display. I live 60 miles from work. However, when I arrive at work, I've used 75 miles worth of charge....???

Perfectly, absolutely, 100000% normal. The car stores energy, its not exact, and the rated energy (miles) will only roll off "1:1" if you drive exactly like the EPA tests, which you likely are not.

For more detail, you can review this 177 page thread I moved your post into, as that is one of the topics covered, very much in depth in this thread.

 

[diamond.g]

Perfectly, absolutely, 100000% normal. The car stores energy, its not exact, and the rated energy (miles) will only roll off "1:1" if you drive exactly like the EPA tests, which you likely are not.

For more detail, you can review this 177 page thread I moved your post into, as that is one of the topics covered, very much in depth in this thread.

I wonder if these questions would lessen if Tesla switched to a GOM instead of the fixed EPA rating for the "battery meter".

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I wonder if these questions would lessen if Tesla switched to a GOM instead of the fixed EPA rating for the "battery meter".

No, they would not. I think it might actually be worse, since then it would be really hard to explain why a user gets particular results. Right now it's super easy to explain and predict exactly what results you will get.

 

[diamond.g]

No, they would not. I think it might actually be worse, since then it would be really hard to explain why a user gets particular results. Right now it's super easy to explain and predict exactly what results you will get.

In the end isn't the response: "you are not driving like the EPA test, therefore your results will differ" the same we would be giving either way? In the case the GOM would "more accurately" tell the user how far they can go (which they can see from the Energy screen, but apparently that is more work than folks want to do).

 

[AAKEE]

I put very little mileage on my vehicles (sold a 4.5 year old Kia with 26K miles (43K kms). That's an average of 16miles/26km per day + I live in a relatively cold climate (Ottawa) - where in the winter it goes down to -20/-30C. Summer it can get warm (May-August) in the 30C (80-90F).

Wondering if maybe a regular 80% SoC is even worth it since I barely drive the car (I can go 4-5 days without driving it). I have a HWPC being installed Friday so I can get it up pretty quickly if needed.. Makes me wonder if I should set a max charge to 50-60% and go up to 80-90 when I know i'll be taking a trip/going to the inlaws, etc.

I do plan to keep the car for 6-8 years and would like to get some kind of trade in value for a $90K CAD car (M3P)

Calendar aging is the dominant degradation the first years of a battery aging. The higher the SOC is on average, the higher the degradation. The higher the temperature is, the higher the degradation.

I charge to 55% every night and use 25-35% daily. I set the timer to commence charging so the charging is done not that long before I leave for work. (Of course I charge more before a longer trip etc, when needed). I still have full range, after almost one year and 30000km.

Tue chart below shows degradation for a Panasonic NCA cell depending on SOC, time and temperature.
Low SOC is also benificial for cyclic aging, so doulbe win from low SOC.
Small cycles degrade the battery less so charge often(every night) is better than charge on a SOC basis.

 

[AAKEE]

Hey all

Sorry didn't read all 170+ pages. Got my 2022 M3P on Wednesday and charging to 100% showed 503 KM of range. I haven't been driving it (58KM on the odometer) as I'm waiting for my PPF appointment which is tomorrow.

Tonight it's showing 490KM range at 100%. That's a loss of 13km in 5 days. Is this normal - something I should be concerned about?

If you dont use the car, do not charge to 100%! If you leave it at 100% the battery will degrade quite fast.

Only charge to high SOC shortly before leaving for a long drive.

 

[Candleflame]

No, they would not. I think it might actually be worse, since then it would be really hard to explain why a user gets particular results. Right now it's super easy to explain and predict exactly what results you will get.

i do a lot of roadtrips through australian country roads (so lots of deep discharges) and the rated range meter is actually very useful as an emergency range meter if it comes to be. i.e. if you are driving down to 0% you can gauge what your range is if you just stick to i.e. 90km/h.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In the case the GOM would "more accurately" tell the user how far they can go (which they can see from the Energy screen, but apparently that is more work than folks want to do).

It really doesn’t work though. The only thing that is guaranteed in general about the GOM is that it will be wrong. On the other hand, the current method Tesla uses is always correct, within the limits of the BMS (it tells you your remaining energy). Remember the battery icon is an Energy Display as Tesla documents it. It’s not for range predictions!

And Tesla provides the only thing that bridges this gap, too - the Trip Planner. This reasonably accurately predicts your range, while the Energy display (the battery icon) simultaneously displays your energy. And they provide the GOM on the Energy Consumption Screen as you say.

 

[Jmccormack1119]

I purchased a 2021 M3P in June, and drive a lot for work. I've seen the typical battery degradation described by many on this forum since I've put around 25k miles on it, down about 7% from the original 315 EPA range when I got it. However this morning the range suddenly dropped 30 miles and is now sitting at 265 at 100%. Is this accurate/a factory defect? Something I should schedule an appointment for? I use superchargers a lot since I'm travelling for work but dont let the battery go lower than 10% or higher than 90%.