Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[ucmndd]

Since you don’t know the prior owner’s charging habits, I’d start reading here and consider giving this a try.

How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

Like many others, I have been concerned with loss of 100% indicated battery range on one of my Model 3s. My P3D (build date 9/13/2018, delivery date 10/8/2018) had gotten down to 270.3 miles at 100% charge on January 20, 2020, at about 30,700 miles, which is a loss of 40.8 miles since the car...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[jjrandorin]

Hey all,

Forgive me if this isn't the appropriate venue, but I believe it is. I recently purchased a used (not from Tesla) 2021 Model 3 LR AWD w/ 14,200 miles and have put 1k miles on since. I also recently set up TeslaFi to track performance and other metrics. One thing that has stuck out to me as very odd is the battery capacity that TeslaFi is generating. Specifically, this:

https://imgur.com/qubYeiT

https://imgur.com/fb5nc21

These seem to point to a near 9% loss in expected battery range (at full) compared to other models (some with significantly more mileage) on TeslaFi.

Does anyone have a possible explanation for such rapid battery degradation on a car that is literally one year old? I am in cold conditions since purchase (regularly between 5-20 F) but I know this shouldn't account for such a drastic estimated capacity. I am actually at a loss here.

9% loss after 1 year is within the normal range, and it might be exacerbated some by the cold.

TL ; DR -- nothing looks out of the ordinary there, and there is nothing to go to tesla about (which is the next question, normally). If you do, they will cancel any appointment and tell you that its normal, and that the warranty is for 70% at 8 years 120k miles.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hey all,

Forgive me if this isn't the appropriate venue, but I believe it is. I recently purchased a used (not from Tesla) 2021 Model 3 LR AWD w/ 14,200 miles and have put 1k miles on since. I also recently set up TeslaFi to track performance and other metrics. One thing that has stuck out to me as very odd is the battery capacity that TeslaFi is generating. Specifically, this:

https://imgur.com/qubYeiT

https://imgur.com/fb5nc21

These seem to point to a near 9% loss in expected battery range (at full) compared to other models (some with significantly more mileage) on TeslaFi.

Does anyone have a possible explanation for such rapid battery degradation on a car that is literally one year old? I am in cold conditions since purchase (regularly between 5-20 F) but I know this shouldn't account for such a drastic estimated capacity. I am actually at a loss here.

Yes, this is normal.

Always good to check the battery capacity before buying a vehicle. Especially when used, because by then the vehicles should have started to differentiate themselves from one another (it's hard to know how a brand new vehicle will do).

Exceedingly easy to do, well worth it for any prospective owner. Keep in mind for an early 2021 vehicle (built in 2020) you likely only have a 77.8kWh (when new) battery, whereas many other 2021 vehicles (built in 2021 after the first quarter or so - you'd have to check the threads to figure out the exact timing) started with the "82.1kWh" battery (which typically started at 79kWh or maybe as high as 80kWh in some cases). So that would impact any comparison, potentially quite substantially.

As it is, it looks like you have about 69-70kWh battery capacity left. About 66-67kWh usable.

 

[KenC]

Does TeslaFi still use the temperature-affected SOC api? I know the Stats developer switched to the other SOC api in January of last year, but has TeslaFi?

 

[dballa]

Yes, this is normal.

Always good to check the battery capacity before buying a vehicle. Especially when used, because by then the vehicles should have started to differentiate themselves from one another (it's hard to know how a brand new vehicle will do).

Exceedingly easy to do, well worth it for any prospective owner. Keep in mind for an early 2021 vehicle (built in 2020) you likely only have a 77.8kWh (when new) battery, whereas many other 2021 vehicles (built in 2021 after the first quarter or so - you'd have to check the threads to figure out the exact timing) started with the "82.1kWh" battery (which typically started at 79kWh or maybe as high as 80kWh in some cases). So that would impact any comparison, potentially quite substantially.

As it is, it looks like you have about 69-70kWh battery capacity left. About 66-67kWh usable.

Good info (and thanks to everyone who has responded. I can confirm that my specific car was built in Q4 2020, as it was delivered to the previous owner in late January 2021. I guess, in that case, it makes sense that my capacity is lower than expected. It still seems drastic from similar model comparisons but I suppose it is what it is, I'm not that bent up about it.

 

[conv90]

What does your car say the "efficiency" was for that 150 mile trip? Go to "Trips". Second, check what the car thinks your battery size is, go to the Consumption screen, and choose 30 mile and Average. Multiply the "avg" efficiency by the Projected Range; then divide by the Percentage SOC left. That will give you the size of the battery the car thinks you have.

For example, my car showed 281Wh/mile x 136 miles / 50% = 76.4kWh
View attachment 768728

I correct understand? you hav a 2018 LR AWD with 100k+ miles and you still have over 76 kWh ?

 

[KenC]

I correct understand? you hav a 2018 LR AWD with 100k+ miles and you still have over 76 kWh ?

Yes, my 2018 LR-AWD has over 30k miles and it still shows its original range of 310 miles and about 76kWh. Presumably, it has been using its top buffer very slowly.

 

[conv90]

Yes, my 2018 LR-AWD has over 30k miles and it still shows its original range of 310 miles and about 76kWh. Presumably, it has been using its top buffer very slowly.

......My 2021 Model 3 Performance is 11 months old , 21k kilometers and it's 75,2 kWh.... (82,1 "Full Pack When New" but never been over 79,6 ).

 

[ro_explorer]

......My 2021 Model 3 Performance is 11 months old , 21k kilometers and it's 75,2 kWh.... (82,1 "Full Pack When New" but never been over 79,6 ).

Exactly my numbers, but for a 2021 LR, 8 months old, 21K Km: 75KWh NFP (82.1 when new, 79.2 maximum seen).

 

[conv90]

Exactly my numbers, but for a 2021 LR, 8 months old, 21K Km: 75KWh NFP (82.1 when new, 79.2 maximum seen).

if only checked 5 weeks ago or 2000 km less , it was 77,6-77,8 kWh

 

[conv90]

if only checked 5 weeks ago or 2000 km less , it was 77,6-77,8 kWh
View attachment 770749

I reply to myself adding another drop to 74,9 kWh , Every day it's a bit less.
Im so disappointed . I've sold My old 2019 LR AWD with E3D Pana battery ( 77,7 Full Pack When New but never been over 75,7) at 74 kWh after 2 years and 40K kilometers.
This E3LD of the current M3performance losts 2x times capacity than the old one in less than half time and half kilometers. Iwill never remove my suspect that E3LD 82.1kWh packs are delivered and installed with different batches.
First choice batches (holding the capacity in a perfect manner) and 2nd choices batches loosing capacity fast.
And I add that this new car has been charged and managed by me in a more conservative way.

 

[conv90]

I reply to myself adding another drop to 74,9 kWh , Every day it's a bit less.
Im so disappointed . I've sold My old 2019 LR AWD with E3D Pana battery ( 77,7 Full Pack When New but never been over 75,7) at 74 kWh after 2 years and 40K kilometers.
This E3LD of the current M3performance losts 2x times capacity than the old one in less than half time and half kilometers. Iwill never remove my suspect that E3LD 82.1kWh packs are delivered and installed with different batches.
First choice batches (holding the capacity in a perfect manner) and 2nd choices batches loosing capacity fast.
And I add that this new car has been charged and managed by me in a more conservative way.

[EDIT] this morning dropped to 74.5 kWh.

 

[Candleflame]

unfortunately the reality is that many people will experience 10-20% rangeloss in the first 50k kms...

 

[diamond.g]

[EDIT] this morning dropped to 74.5 kWh.
View attachment 771162

I still think some of this is the BMS best guess, my car dropped to 69kwh then slowly rose to 71.3 recently (I have just shy of 50K miles on my pack). If it were actual degradation it should not have increased, right?

 

[Stan930]

unfortunately the reality is that many people will experience 10-20% rangeloss in the first 50k kms...

Peoples charging habits are the biggest culprit..

 

[SilverString]

Peoples charging habits are the biggest culprit..

I have a Model S but have experienced exactly the same issue. My car went from 335 to 315 in less than six months from new. Tesla claimed that the battery was fine and normal with zero degradation but that 50% of my total charges had been from supercharging, and that could cause problems down the line and eventually lead to a permanent reduction in supercharging speed. Further they stated that the battery had a minor cell imbalance which they had corrected remotely. I did most of that supercharging on several cross country trips in the first 25k miles and TeslaFi indicated the first big drop came immediately after a software update in July 2019.

After the long trips became unnecessary I began charging at home and in the next year, with something like only four supercharges, my range dropped to below 310 miles, and now at 49K miles I am at about 300 miles. I contacted Tesla and was told again that my battery was fine and most of what I saw was a BMS mis-calculation and suggested a change to my charging habits at home, specifically to let my car sit for several hours at various states of charge to allow the BMS to calibrate, and not to "top off" the charge every day to 80% as I had been doing. They assured me that this issue was being addressed with future software updates. I did all of this and no change. I still seemed to lose a little after every software update, but the drop in range seems to have stabilized at around 300 miles. The car still charges at up to about 146kw at V2 chargers, and up to 186kw at V3 chargers.

 

[redcap7]

Hi, I own a 20221 M3 Performance and it has been a week w it. I observed that when the vehicle is idle (overnight) I lost like 3%, is it common for performance vehicle? And every ride takes 315 Wh/mi in chill mode which is 60 Wh/mi more than my previous M3 LR. I didn’t know the difference is this big…

 

[CarlThompson]

I wonder if it's possible that supercharging is really a bigger problem for battery longevity than Tesla lets on?

My last Model 3 lost 0 visible range in the first 1.5 years / 15k miles or so and only about 8% after 4 years / 30k miles (100% charge of 300 miles vs. 325 when new). I thought that was bad until I started reading this forum last December but apparently that's really good!

I rarely supercharged that car with maybe only about 5 full cycles / 1,000 miles from supercharging most of which was in one trip from the SF Bay Area to the LA area last year. I did notice some apparent range drop right immediately after that trip but don't remember the exact numbers.

Supercharging and the Supercharger network are a HUGE competitive advantage for Tesla. I could see them not being forthcoming about it if they discovered that it degrades batteries much more than slow charging.

Hi, I own a 20221 M3 Performance and it has been a week w it. I observed that when the vehicle is idle (overnight) I lost like 3%, is it common for performance vehicle? And every ride takes 315 Wh/mi in chill mode which is 60 Wh/mi more than my previous M3 LR. I didn’t know the difference is this big…

Hi! I also upgraded from an older 2018 LR to a new 2022 LR which I got last week. I'm actually seeing better efficiency in my new LR than in my old one.

I think those heavy wheels and big tires on your performance really do make a big difference, though. And in my experience in my old Model 3 for me at least it was more efficient to drive myself and not use autopilot. With all the phantom braking in the newer cars I could see that further decreasing efficiency if you use AP a lot. Also remember that it's winter now and that means worse efficiency even here in the Bay Area!

 

[Bouba]

I’m pleased with the range of my M3LR but Sentry Mode (which I love!) is killing me...please Mr Musk, can you tweak Sentry Mode so it uses a lot less power....merci beaucoup

 

[neurocutie]

unfortunately the reality is that many people will experience 10-20% rangeloss in the first 50k kms...

I guess so...
For me and my 2020 M3 AWD, its been 2 years and I'm "half way" to 70%, i.e. now seeing a 15% range loss, with only 12K miles driven.

Strangely there has been a rapid decline just in the past 6mos, weekly loss of maybe 1-2%.

I almost always charge to 80% and was not happy when yesterday I saw that meant 218mi. Today it was 212mi.

About 6mos ago, when the M3 was only 1.5yrs old, 10Kmi driven, I was seeing maybe 240mi, (with an 80% charge) about 5%. But since then, the decline has been steady, weekly, and rapid. Basically I've lost an additional 10% in the past 6mos, and it keeps dropping.

Try not to worry, but... I'm worried.