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Range of model S

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Rawad H., Jan 6, 2015.

  1. Rawad H.

    Rawad H. Member

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    hey all i took delivery of my model s 11-14-14 and i dont think i can ever drive another car again i love it. i do have a couple questions about range, i took delivery in winter months in michigan and obviously range will be much lower then advertised i understand that, my question is the kwh. i have a 85 kwh model and by the time my car is down to lets say 20 rated miles left i will have only used 55kwh that does not make much sense to me, would love some input and help ty in advance!
     
  2. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    There are plenty of other threads that attempt to tease out the usable kWh in a fully-charged 85kWh pack; IIRC it's around 78-79kWh. First, are you charging to 100%? Second, as the temperature of the pack falls, the amount of energy you can extract from it drops, too; it's not lost, just inaccessible. Then there's the question of what percentage of the energy pulled from the pack for all purposes shows up on the display as 'kWh used'; some speculate that it's not 100%.
     
  3. Rawad H.

    Rawad H. Member

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    what you say makes sense and it would not be a issue if i was getting 75-80 but on a full charge i might get 60kwh so im just trying to see if this is something normal due to the temp or not. and you say portion of the energy is not usable and is not lost, when charge is this energy always there? or am i paying for the 30kwh im not using?
     
  4. castor

    castor Member

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    #4 castor, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    After more than one year of detailed analysis on my car I can share that it really depends on the weather, on a 85KWh the average driving will consume about 330 watt per mile, the 265 miles rated range is based on 290 watt per mile, so on summer you should expect 10-15% less so the real range is about 220miles.

    On winter is a totally different beast, the real range will be about 160 miles of range average for commute.

    For example I have a commute of 30 miles (15+15), and the consumed range is 50 miles.

    On winter 32F outside, the car will consume about 2-3kw (8 miles average) to warm the battery, if you park at work then when you leave work the car will consume another 2-3kw to warm the battery again, so only warming the battery will consume about 15-20 miles range from the battery to the 30 driven miles, then add the heater which I use only to 72F and more power to keep the battery warm all the driving.

    So, you should expect a 60% of efficiency range on winter for commute, this % increases if you take a long trip since the battery is already warm.
     
  5. skboston

    skboston Member

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    Winter is quite different than the summer warm months for the range of the car. My experience is that while in the summer I get anywhere between 180 and 220 miles per 90% charge, during these cold weathers I rarely get over 130-140 miles for the 230 rated miles showing on my panel.

    For example today the temperatures here in Boston were 18F and my regenerative breaking was disabled or heavily limited, the average energy usage for the 25 miles I drove was 630wh/m. Heating drains the battery, not to mention the battery heating system when you initially start get in the car.
    Usually when I hit 60kW used energy, I have about 20-30 rated miles left.

    Based on what I've read here on the forums and numbers are similar to my observations your 85kW pack has 5kW that are restricted, then 90% SOC is about 71kW and you have 5kW reserve when you hit 0 miles, which leaves you with about 66kW usable energy.

    Once the weather warms up in April/May you'll see a significant improvement in your energy usage, I rarely get under 500wh/m in the last few days with this lovely weather, but once it warms up to 35-40F outside, my usage drops to about 400-450 based on driving and cabin heating usage.

    I hope this helps. Here is a picture from this morning when my regenerative breaking was disabled and even the dotted line was so cold it was hiding (even the notification vanished but rest assured regenerative breaking wasn't working) :)

    45d6933ed9.jpg
     
  6. William13

    William13 Member

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    #6 William13, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    Your experience is valid. Today it is in single digits in the Midwest. I charged to 100% immediately before driving off out of a warm garage. I drove 60 miles. Had lunch 3 miles each way. Drove 60 miles back home. This used 60 kWh using range mode. This looks like my range was only 126 miles for 60 kWh. 476 kWh/mile. But my car said, 420 kWh/mile. You ask,where/why the discrepancy?

    The car cold soaked three times and the energy released by the battery which warmed it up three times was lost. This is in addition to the hidden energy our warm climate friend above is describing.

    If I had driven continuously I could have driven 180+ miles today but when broken up and the battery cold soaks the range drops a lot.

    Additionally my discrepancy would be bigger and usage higher if range mode had not been selected as the car would have used energy to heat the battery quickly each time I drove again which involves even more loss to the winter weather.
     
  7. Rawad H.

    Rawad H. Member

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    thanks for all the responses and for reassuring me that i have no reason to worry, i came from a chevy volt which on avg got 35 miles to a charge and 18 miles in the winter so i expected this to happen. i guess what hit me like a bag of bricks is that i was using 60kwh of range per my trips which would come out to an extra 112$ a month on my dte bill which is actually 85kwh charged so i guess im losing about 25kwh along the way that i am still being charged for when charging even tho im not driving it.
     
  8. castor

    castor Member

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    #8 castor, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    Extra 112$ a month? wow... my bill is only $30 more now with Model S.
    How much are you paying for electricity?

    Some tip:
    It won't reduce your bill however it will take care more of your battery.

    15 minutes before you leave your garage put the heater with the remote app, it doesn't matter which temperature, for example you can set at 70F, once the cabin reaches 70F it will consume very little to keep the cabin warm, however the heater will start also the heating of the battery as well, this process will use energy from the wall and not from the battery, so when you leave you have a warmed battery, make sure your car always is plugged to the wall.

    It won't save energy (just a little, the saving is avoiding the loses about sending the energy from the wall to the battery then the battery to warm the battery) however the advantage of this step is that you will pre-warm the battery with energy from the wall and not from the battery itself, it increases longevity of the battery, also you will have about 8 or 10 extra miles to drive since they won't be consumed to warm the battery the first time.
     
  9. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Note that this will only heat your battery if you have range mode set to "off."
     
  10. Blu Zap

    Blu Zap Grinning member

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    @castor
    good tip on battery heating from the wall. The NorCal climate is not so cold. But I have noticed my vampire drain seems to be higher lately.
     
  11. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Member

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    #11 Brass Guy, Jan 7, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
    Also any energy used when the car is in "Off" mode is not counted in the trip meter. Examples include using the app to preheat the cabin before you go to lunch and before the trip home.
    Don't think of it as paying more for battery storage you can't use, because it's still many kWhs more than the 60kWh battery would allot you for travel.
     
  12. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    I have found the following graphic to be most helpful in understanding the battery's capabilities....
    The answer is over on the right side...

    Battery Range Histogram Explained 85KW.jpg
     
  13. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Here in Dallas the weather has been good at mid 60s, and in my S with no passengers, no load, no wind, no elevation changes (except over underpasses), new 19" tires I am effortlessly getting 290 to 300 wh/mile efficiency going at 70 mph. I recently went for a 50 mile drive at steady 70 mph and only consumed 48 miles at 295 wh/mile which means I can actually go more than the rated range of 260 miles on a full charge on those same conditions.
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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  15. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Your information is accurate.

    But in fairness to ArtInCT, whom you quoted, his post you quoted was over a year old. I don't know if that graphic had been debunked by then or not (though I expect it had been) but I know for certain that the thread you reference in which wk057 provides information on the actual usable kWh of an 85 pack is only a few weeks old.
     
  16. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    :facepalm: I just saw the thread bumped, didn't check the date.
     
  17. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    No problem!

    I just wanted to make sure others reading knew that ArtInCT had not made that post recently!
     
  18. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    #18 ArtInCT, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
    No Harm No Foul....

    When My Model S P90D comes in I plan on taking the simple path to range estimation...

    I like the % of charge method. Initially this will be a data gathering and grinding exercise but then will stop as I become more
    attuned to the P90D.

    I will begin each road session noting the beginning SOC in % and the ending SOC in % and weather temperature.
    Then jot down the actual miles traveled in that session.

    From this data I will generate a set of charts which will show miles of range per percent of charge with an annotation for weather temperature.

    So examples could be....

    40 degree day, 1.6 miles per %
    50 degree day, 1.8 miles per %
    60 degree day, 1.9 miles per %
    70 degree day 2.0 miles per %
    75 degree day 2.1 miles per %
    80 degree day 1.9 miles per %

    etc etc

    So on a 70 degree day with 80 percent starting charge I could recon aprox 160 miles of range to zero. 2.0 miles X 80 = 160 total MAX or 80 mile round trip with no cushion.
    (BTW, I am blessed with a SuperCharger only 6 miles from home and a Tesla Service Center only 4 Miles away)
    Also with 60 miles there are 2 other SuperCharger locations.... schwang....

    I typically will set my cabin to be 67 degrees year round (that is how I roll today) and will attempt to preheat when on shore power.
    My Volvo XC60 tells me that over the life of the car my average MPH on the road is 38 MPH. Certainly rate of speed will be a factor in this
    estimation.... I have to figure that aspect out but my daily trips are very similar to each other.... (am I in a RUT?... he ponders this..)

    Can you guys suggest something better or easier? Are there other data elements or notes I should be keeping track of...?

    Elevation? Headwind? Road Condition? Snow? It is probably wiser to log more data elements than fewer should the need for them arise. sigh

    I am not a big fan of correlation of Tesla Rated Miles to My Actual Rated Miles.... it seems too mathie.... I plan on keeping my early morning SOC
    at 80 and even may go down to 70 as my typical day is about 45 miles total. I am aware the Ludicrous mode performance will suffer from such a low SOC,
    so I will have to allow for my early on SOCs to be in the 90 range.... He Smiles Knowingly....

    Along with pad and pen, I plan on trying LogMySC for a data logging tool and also plan on subscribing to one of the hosted data loggers...
     

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