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Range of the X given Dual Motor reveal?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by anticitizen13.7, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

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    The Model S 85D got a bump up to 295 miles from the previous 265 miles.

    We know that the Model X has a larger frontal area than the Model S. The overall shape is slightly different too. What kind of range are people thinking for the Model X 85D?

    Side mirrors are the other unknown. Tiny video camera mirrors would help some.
     
  2. BerTX

    BerTX Member

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    The two range numbers are from very different situations -- the original number (265 mi.) is the result of the complex set of tests required by the EPA. The 295 mi. number is steady state cruising at 65 mph. I doubt that a reliable assessment of range change is possible.
     
  3. pzz

    pzz Banned

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    I think it will be a very bold move if they remove the mirrors and replace them with cameras.
     
  4. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

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    If it gets NHSTA approval in time I am 100% sure they will do it for the X.
     
  5. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    I agree that Tesla will do it if they can... its the Federal law they have to contend with.

    I don't know if removing side mirrors is any bolder than releasing a car you can summon form the garage and have it pick you up at your front steps with the cabin heater warmed up and your favorite radio station playing...
     
  6. arg

    arg Member

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    Tesla's previous public statement (from European tour by Elon/JB about a year ago) was that the gain from dual motors was enough to more than offset the aerodynamic loss going from Model S to Model X.

    So it would be reasonable to assume that the dual-motor Model X will have marginally more range than a single-motor Model S with the same battery.
     
  7. primetime

    primetime Member

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    Contact NHTSA

    Here is a link for the contact to NHTSA, they have a link where you can send an e-mail. Maybe if we add a little pressure, they will approve the cameras.

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/Contact

    Here's hoping it works.

    All the best,

    Tony

    Sig X#911
     
  8. favo

    favo Model 3 Reservation Holder

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  9. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Tesla Motors originally estimated 300 miles for the Model S 85 at a constant speed of 55 MPH, 230 miles for the Model S 60 at 55 MPH.

    They now estimate 295 miles for the Model S 85D at 65 MPH, and 225 miles for the Model S 60D at 65 MPH.

    It was the EPA that rated the Model S 85 at 265 miles, and the Model S 60 at 208. There is every likelihood that the EPA will disagree with Tesla Motors once again.
     
  10. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

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    [WIKI]y[/WIKI]
    sshhhhhh . . . Mrs. MikeL doesn't know, seriously, I'm hoping to surprise her ! :smile: Now if I can just get Elon to stop tweeting this stuff - she's a follower.

    btw, no side mirrors is a 6% gain in efficiency as I recall. No small deal
     
  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Source?

    I doubt the gain is anywhere near 6%. But I am just guessing.
     
  12. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

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    Apologies, I knew when I posted that I shouldn't just throw numbers around. So far, the source is my memory, but I'll look back thru the cameras vs mirrors thread(s). It was among the reasons I was gung-ho behind the change to cameras on the X. As I recall, it was a statement from Tesla, maybe J.B. or Elon(?) maybe waaaay back at Teslive.
    The 6% stuck with me because it is impressive. Imagine pushing those two things through the air at highway speed, when aerodynamics becomes the main impact on efficiency. Then imagine them being gone. Easy for people much smarter than me to figure out and test so a real answer is out there somewhere :smile:

    You know those freaky headlights on the LEAF? I've been told their shape and therefore purpose is to direct air around the mirrors at highway speed. Sight down one from the front sometime, it's easy to see that's the design.
     
  13. John Malzone

    John Malzone New Member

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    I wonder if the two motors will work independently too for more efficiency. EG. front motor could be geared higher for highway cruising once you get going. I raised this question at a Q&A in the Garden City store on Long Island and the spokesperson who claimed to be a Tesla engineer said, "That's a great idea, I never thought of that. We get some of our best ideas from customers". I'm no engineer but I wonder if it's being incorporated.
     
  14. lloyds

    lloyds Member

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    Whatever the efficiencies gained would likely be offset with a bigger, heavier car.
     
  15. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

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    I remember the 6% number also, making the rounds when this was first proposed. But I can't find a quote specifically from Musk or Straubel about it.

    The testing and quantifying of drag of side mirrors predates any of the work Tesla has done. Here's an article on the subject from 2006 that references a study that quotes 3% to 6% loss of aerodynamic efficiency from side mirrors:

    Reflections on side mirrors: testing drag vs. MPG - MetroMPG.com

    And a Master's Thesis on the topic quotes a German research paper that quantifies the loss as 2% to 7%: http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/143193.pdf

    So 6% is within the realm of possibility, but I would imagine Tesla's mirrors would be more aerodynamic than the average (assuming the NHTSA still requires them when the Model X makes it into production). So maybe somewhat less than 6% loss.

    I was thinking that side-view cameras with a fail-over standard mirror that pops out if there is a fault in the system would be a nice solution, though it would be more complex mechanically.

    -CB
     
  16. Nubo

    Nubo Test Mule

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    The entire vehicle is far more aerodynamic than average though. So the percentage may still be valid.
     
  17. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Does anyone have an attributable source for the Model X range and/or variance from the Model S?
     
  18. arg

    arg Member

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    Elon and JB discussed this on their european tour earlier in the year. I believe they said that the gain from dual-motor AWD was enough to offset the aerodynamic loss going from Model S -> X

    I'm fairly sure it was in one or other of these videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7X4TRBazvo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJUA_dVVMjo
     

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