Range on midrange reduced to 219 miles

[futron]

Hi, the estimated range on my midrange model 3 has dropped to 219 miles at 100% charge. Average wh/mi since taking delivery has been 240. 7800 miles on the odometer since 11/2018. Brought this issue up during multiple service visits and got the same answer over and over again: it's just an estimate not reflective of everyday real-world use, better to use the battery percentage instead, drop the charge to 20% then charge up to 100% to reset the BMS, etc. I've done the re-calibration procedure repeatedly and it never increased past 219 miles. What gives? I don't drive the car aggressively and my average wh/mi seems to be at the rated value. The service techs claim that they've remotely checked on my battery health and there's no issues with the cells, and no software limitations effectively limiting me to SR range. Has anyone experienced this much of a drop from the advertised range? Should I press Tesla to change out my battery pack?

 

[ewoodrick]

It's not a problem, try reading some of the many other threads about the exact same thing.

 

[jjrandorin]

OP,

Read this thread:

Battery Degradation; Sailing & Touching a Shore

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hi, the estimated range on my midrange model 3 has dropped to 219 miles at 100% charge. Average wh/mi since taking delivery has been 240. 7800 miles on the odometer since 11/2018.

1) where has 100% projected been historically?

2) when did the drop occur?

3) was the drop correlated with a software update?

4) do you have any 3rd party app tracking data?



For all the talk about BMS, the fact that you have taken it below 20% and up to 100% and you have lost something like 15% of your battery capacity (220/264) makes it seem unlikely to me that this is a BMS calibration issue.

I kind of wonder whether they accidentally IDed your car as an AWD and are using the wrong Wh/rmi constant. I doubt it though, as it would only explain a 10% error or so.

You could measure the constant but you have to do it carefully. And honesty it probably isn’t worth the bother.

If it was a recent sudden development my guess is it will come back in a future software change. I have no idea what they are doing with the charging levels these days but lots of people are reporting loss of range.

I lost nearly 10 miles of range overnight on updating to 2019.24, but I got it back on 2019.28.

 

[Steve Martin]

How many miles can you drive on relatively flat ground at 70 mph after charging to 100%? If you don’t know, start driving and do a test. Reset a trip meter to “save” the data. Take pictures before and after the test to show Tesla.

No, you don’t have a warranty claim, although your car is the worst that I’ve heard of so far. According to your data, you’re at 83% of the original rated capacity. A warranty claim doesn't trigger until it’s less than 70%. Here’s the info from the warranty:

• Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

According to my “Stats: For Tesla” app, my rated range is 238 miles at 100% charge while I’m currently charged at 72%. I disregard this number. Also, according to the app, my estimated range is 259 miles after doing some math to convert from 72 to 100% charge. My battery health graph shows 264 miles estimated range at about 2,500 miles on the odometer and currently shows 258 miles estimated range with 10,692 miles on the odometer. I’m happy with the degradation from 264 to 259 for estimated range over 10,692 miles. The car performed well on two trips:
1. 2,500 miles
2. 1,500 miles

 

[fjdomestic]

i have a midrange also; nov 2018 build, 11,000 miles. i have not re calibrated on purpose yet , but it seems a 100% charge gets me in the mid 250's range. truthfully , i'm not thrilled with that but then i drive the car and forget it all , lol

anyway, 219 for midrange is totally not right and i'd insist on a service appointment. you should push this while under warranty.

 

[hugh_jassol]

This doesn't seem right to me... I, too, have a midrange 12/2018 build, 6k miles, and I charge to 80% which shows about 206 range, which would mean 100% would be 206/0.8=258 mi.

Up until a month or so ago, it would show 211 mi @ 80%, which was the as-advertised 264 mi @ 100% but then one day, it started showing 206 and hasn't changed since. I think Tesla changed the Wh/mi they use for the range calc, but of course, unless they tell us, we'll never know.

In any case, a 20%-ish loss in battery at this point is not normal.

 

[fjdomestic]

This doesn't seem right to me... I, too, have a midrange 12/2018 build, 6k miles, and I charge to 80% which shows about 206 range, which would mean 100% would be 206/0.8=258 mi.

Up until a month or so ago, it would show 211 mi @ 80%, which was the as-advertised 264 mi @ 100% but then one day, it started showing 206 and hasn't changed since. I think Tesla changed the Wh/mi they use for the range calc, but of course, unless they tell us, we'll never know.

In any case, a 20%-ish loss in battery at this point is not normal.

ok. this morning 82% @ 213miles

u must be a stern fan? (i have been since late 80's)

 

[futron]

Unfortunately I don't have a third party tracker to delineate when the loss of range occurred, but at delivery it was showing 260 miles. Spoke to Tesla yesterday and got another service appointment; they promised an "engineer" would look at the car.

 

[Snow Drift]

You need to charge to 90% on multiple occasions for everything to reset. I have 7k miles on my LRD and all % are still based on 310 miles. I have had it reduced bc I wasn't getting up to 90%. Then I changed my charging habits and it reset.

 

[jjrandorin]

1) where has 100% projected been historically?

2) when did the drop occur?

3) was the drop correlated with a software update?

4) do you have any 3rd party app tracking data?



For all the talk about BMS, the fact that you have taken it below 20% and up to 100% and you have lost something like 15% of your battery capacity (220/264) makes it seem unlikely to me that this is a BMS calibration issue.

I kind of wonder whether they accidentally IDed your car as an AWD and are using the wrong Wh/rmi constant. I doubt it though, as it would only explain a 10% error or so.

You could measure the constant but you have to do it carefully. And honesty it probably isn’t worth the bother.

If it was a recent sudden development my guess is it will come back in a future software change. I have no idea what they are doing with the charging levels these days but lots of people are reporting loss of range.

I lost nearly 10 miles of range overnight on updating to 2019.24, but I got it back on 2019.28.

Op doesnt say HOW they are charging... for example, are they plugging in every night, or only "every few days because I dont use that much range anyway" for example.

I am certainly not going to dispute anything you are saying about batteries in these cars... you put waaay more effort into looking into this stuff than I do, and I enjoy reading your well thought out posts on the subject. I am just saying that, its my opinion that waiting to charge every few days also effects the BMS calculations in some way (not the actual range, just the BMS calculation of range).

Thats one reason why I like that "touch the shore" analogy in the thread that was recently surfaced by @VQTRVA that I linked to above.

its a really clear explanation of how I feel the BMS gets confused.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Thats one reason why I like that "touch the shore" analogy in the thread that was recently surfaced by @VQTRVA that I linked to above.

I definitely think there are ways to get the state of charge estimate out of whack. Exercising near the entire range is good. Keeping the car plugged in is probably good too.

It just seemed unlikely in this particular case for the large apparent discrepancy, since it sounded like he had done a 20% to 100% charge.

But, we have insufficient info.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think Tesla changed the Wh/mi they use for the range calc, but of course, unless they tell us, we'll never know.

It’s actually not hard to measure this constant, don’t have to rely on Tesla That being said, the trip meter also could potentially change how it reads, which would introduce confusion on the results, so there are a lot of moving pieces. But it is certainly possible to check things and compare to prior results. Note I am not talking about simply reading your Wh/mi!

I actually have no idea what the Wh/rmi constant is for the LEMR, since they are so rare, but it is probably between 209Wh/rmi (SR+) and 223Wh/rmi (LR RWD). (Discharge constants.)

 

[futron]

You need to charge to 90% on multiple occasions for everything to reset. I have 7k miles on my LRD and all % are still based on 310 miles. I have had it reduced bc I wasn't getting up to 90%. Then I changed my charging habits and it reset.

That's what I have been doing for several months now.

Op doesnt say HOW they are charging... for example, are they plugging in every night, or only "every few days because I dont use that much range anyway" for example.

I am certainly not going to dispute anything you are saying about batteries in these cars... you put waaay more effort into looking into this stuff than I do, and I enjoy reading your well thought out posts on the subject. I am just saying that, its my opinion that waiting to charge every few days also effects the BMS calculations in some way (not the actual range, just the BMS calculation of range).

Thats one reason why I like that "touch the shore" analogy in the thread that was recently surfaced by @VQTRVA that I linked to above.

its a really clear explanation of how I feel the BMS gets confused.

I leave it connected to the 240V charger nightly and charge to around 80% for my daily commute of 50 miles (all highway). I understand your reasoning in the analogy provided, but it seems that most people online are complaining of a 5 to 10 mile discrepancy in the estimated range at most, while the discrepancy in my case exceeds 40 miles of range. This is clearly not normal. I've attached a photo of the SoC at 100%.

 

[hugh_jassol]

It’s actually not hard to measure this constant, don’t have to rely on Tesla

I have been a TeslaFi subscriber since Feb... so here's what I get for my LEMR for each month:

FEB   kWh Used:  97.72    Rated Miles Used:  451.97    Wh/mi: 216.2
MAR   kWh Used: 227.18    Rated Miles Used: 1050.67    Wh/mi: 216.2
APR   kWh Used: 274.56    Rated Miles Used: 1267.13    Wh/mi: 216.7
MAY   kWh Used: 133.86    Rated Miles Used:  617.81    Wh/mi: 216.7
JUN   kWh Used: 203.75    Rated Miles Used:  940.34    Wh/mi: 216.7
JUL   kWh Used: 136.24    Rated Miles Used:  628.77    Wh/mi: 216.7
AUG   kWh Used: 222.13    Rated Miles Used: 1021.50    Wh/mi: 217.5

note: I specifically used "rated miles used" not actual miles driven. So the above numbers are Wh/rated_mi, which should be the "constant".

However, something still doesn't add up:

• From several sources (albeit unofficial), the Mid-Range is supposed to have a 62 kWh battery... and at my calculated 217 Wh/Mi, that would give it a 100% range of 286 mi vs the official 264 mi rating when sold
• If you assume the 264 mi rated range advertised by Tesla is what they used for calculating the "estimated range" constant and you take the Wh/mi I calculated (217)... then that would put the battery capacity at something like 57 kWh.
• Finally if you take the Tesla rated range of 264 mi and the 62 kWh batt pack, then you should see the constant be 235 Wh/mi

So, at this point, I am not sure what is correct:

• Range: 264 vs 286 mi (I believe this has to be 264 since that is what was advertised as the EPA rated range)
• Batt Capacity: 62 vs 57 kWh
• Wh/mi "constant" of 217 vs 235

For what it's worth, my Monroney sticker says 27 kWh per 100 mi (or 270 Wh/mi), which would put the battery about 71 kWh, which can't possibly be true...

EDIT: Out of curiosity, I went back and did "lifetime" kWh used / actual miles driven. When I do that, I get 1295.44 kWh / 5643.8 mi = 230 Wh/mi... which is consistent with a 62 kWh batt / 264 mi range.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

That's what I have been doing for several months now.


I leave it connected to the 240V charger nightly and charge to around 80% for my daily commute of 50 miles (all highway). I understand your reasoning in the analogy provided, but it seems that most people online are complaining of a 5 to 10 mile discrepancy in the estimated range at most, while the discrepancy in my case exceeds 40 miles of range. This is clearly not normal. I've attached a photo of the SoC at 100%.

Yeah that is messed up. I am not surprised - most people with capacity loss as large as yours seem to have consistent losses that don’t come back except with software changes. You should calculate your Wh/rmi on a long drive sometime. Though I am fairly sure it will be normal....looks to me like you just have tons of capacity loss (possibly related to software - see my list of questions above). Looks like I’ll have to give the basic Wh/rmi method in another reply here.

 

[MP3Mike]

@futron Does the screen with information about your car still say it is a mid-range? Or has Tesla maybe accidentally downgraded it to an SR? (I didn't think that was even an option, but hey mistakes happen.)

 

[futron]

@futron Does the screen with information about your car still say it is a mid-range? Or has Tesla maybe accidentally downgraded it to an SR? (I didn't think that was even an option, but hey mistakes happen.)

First thing I checked actually... it does still show the mid-range logo. I asked the service tech whether there is a software limitation affecting the range and he stated 'no'.

 

[smashcz]

Are you in Florida?

 

[gecko10x]

My LEMR is currently showing a rated range of 248/249, which I am not happy about (6700 miles); if I were in your shoes, I’d be pissed. Definitely not normal, even if it is still above the warranty threshold.