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Range versus comfort

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Gynob001, Sep 11, 2016.

?

Would you drive at lower speed limit without AC or heater to get better range?

Poll closed Sep 18, 2016.
  1. Yes

    22.6%
  2. No

    77.4%
  1. Gynob001

    Gynob001 Member

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    Location:
    Orlando
    True Tesl Milege
    I drove from Orlando to Jacksonville with a couple of small 12 mile errands.
    1. Miles disappear faster if you have the AC on and keep up with the posted high way speed of 70 MPH.
    2. Even world class hotels are inadequately reared for electric vehicles. Double tree had three 110 V outlets in the parking lot- not necessarily for charging- two of them didn't even have any juice flowing, and one was poorly anchored at a height of about 5 ft and couldn't support the weight of the cable. I should add that the hotel staff were wonderful and went out of the way to get a blocking vehicle out.
    3 Nissan has a crazy CHAdeMO high speed outlet but you need a $450 adapter.
    4 . After driving 15 miles, I charged in a different hotel parking lot (at 4 miles per hour) only to realize after 3 hours that I would end up worse than I started before.
    5. Then I found a commercial charger at $0.13 per kwh after endless figuring out of how to use. It had a card system and wouldn't take any credit card. Being partially deaf and with the street notice, it took me 30 minutes to get my credit card accepted. I charged enough to get me to St. Augustine super charger. Rest is history- after 40 minutes, I had a full charge and was on my way to Orblando.
    6. At 60 MPH ( I was driving slow) and at 75 degrees AC ( outside temp 92), it took 1.36 kWh for a mile. Between St. Augustine charger and my home at Lake Nona, I had used 156 kWh.
    7 Next time I will top it off whenever I see a super charger, never rely on 110 V charger, avoid Hotels without a charger, avoid commercial chargers, and be prepared to see non-Tesla plugs from different car dealers. Nissan was wonderful however.
    8" Inam not sure how much the jubilant and ecstatic acceleration is worth if you have to drive slowly, turn off AC, and gawk at other speeding cars.
    9 Is bigger battery, the only answer? I drive either alone or with my wife. I would love a lighter 2 seater with Tesla quality but would give at least 300 miles at the posted speed limit on highways with AC or Heater running.
     
  2. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    As to your poll question, it’s a little incomplete, as it does not include context of what scenarios it’s talking about. To actually make it to a destination I need to get to, where backup plans are painfully slow charging? You bet I would go slow and cut off climate control, and I have a couple of times to make sure I could get there and not run out of juice. But as a regular course of habit whenever I need to travel somewhere? No, I would arrange better planning and charging so it doesn’t go like that.

    Let me clarify some. Energy usage factors go kind of like this:
    #1 Moving the car—speed makes the biggest difference.
    #2 Heat—It does take a noticeable amount of energy to run heating.
    #3
    #4
    #5 Air conditioning—this is far less than heat and is just a little noticeable.

    #99 Everything else—all of the electronics are completely unnoticeable.

    But it is frequently a surprise to people who don’t quite realize how “rated miles” works. That is based on the fixed EPA cycle, which does not include any climate control use, and is for lower speeds, like 60-ish. People are thinking 1 to 1 with how they use their cars on the highway, but that is higher energy use and is going to use up the “rated miles” faster.

    I’m trying to figure out what happened on your travel route from your story. You talk about going from the Orlando area (Lake Nona) up to Jacksonville. You say you had to deal with that irritating commercial charger (step 5) just to get to St. Augustine. Did you skip the Point Orange Supercharger in the Daytona Beach area? That should have made this really easy. I think this is just one of those mistakes you learn once. The Superchargers are SO incredibly fast and reliable, that it is usually not worth it to try to press to make a tight distance by skipping one and then have to revert to an irritating Plan B or C when you find you are falling short.



    Quote: “Between St. Augustine charger and my home at Lake Nona, I had used 156 kWh.”



    WHAT?!! This can’t be the direct route. EVTripplanner shows that would use about 43kWh. You can’t possibly use more than triple that from highway speed and A/C. There seem to be a few missing details from this story. It should have been fairly uneventful, going from the Orlando area, through the Superchargers in Point Orange and St. Ausustine, up to Jax and back through that route.
     
  3. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    there should be no reason that a 90 cannot make it to the st augustine SpC from lake nona. I've made it from St. Pete to St Aug on one full charge. if you drive the speed limits, drive a constant speed and don't do rapid accelerations there should be no problem, a stop at port orange would alleviate any range anxieties.
     
  4. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    #4 ArtInCT, Sep 12, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
    :rolleyes: this is a very odd post OP..... jus saying'

    IMHO, you should ALWAYS equip your car with the largest traction battery you can afford.
    This is especially true if you are running in cold weather (below freezing), which is probably not applicable to your environment.
     
  5. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    I am gathering that your words are politer than the phrasing of that opinion in your head.
     
    • Funny x 1
  6. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    Well, you say 90, but bear in mind that I don't see any reference to what battery size the OP has. It may be a 60kWh.
     
  7. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    that is exactly why I qualified the statement, fwiw: I made the st pete/ st augustine trip in an 85
     
  8. Gynob001

    Gynob001 Member

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    I have S85
    I started with 267 on my life range. Drove at 65MPH with 75 degrees temp when the outside temp was 91 degrees F. Reached Jacksonville with 102 "miles" left. Drove in and around the down to 67 miles after charging 40 miles in a Nissan Dealer. Drove to some Hotel near by for changing and charged for 3 hours at almost 4 miles per hour! Went back to my hotel (-2 miles!) Found a 110V outlet at the Hotel and had 100 miles next morning. After driving around Jacksonville, to 63 miles, drove to St. Augustine super charger and a complete charge in 40 minutes, drove back to Lake Nona.
    To ArtLnCT-and Rocky H-which part was too taxing for you? Guess you had never seen a ChadeMO charger or MOSH chargers.
     
  9. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    The part where you were intentionally avoiding using the Superchargers at Port Orange and St. Augustine along the way and then complaining about how deficient the car is. That is REALLY confusing. CHAdeMO and others are kind of OK as secondary options, but they were completely unnecessary for this trip.
     
  10. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    you would have been wise to have stopped at st augustine SpC for a 15-20 minute charge on the way to jax to top off your charge for your driving around jax. you wasted a lot of time at l2 chargers for no reason.
     
  11. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    A quick look at the Tesla Destination Charger map shows at least 4 hotels in the Jacksonville area that have Tesla HPWC which are available to patrons. Using the restaurant would be "patronizing" and being polite. You can get 26 miles per hour on a 40A 220V HPWC and double that if you have dual chargers and they have 80A. On an upcoming trip to your state, we shall be staying over at a few fine Destination hotels and Inns on the way, and of course using their HPWC's overnight. Planning is important. Calling in advance to insure the infrastructure is "UP" is important BTW.

    I use the website EVtriplanning.com to build my itinerary. EVtriplanner is also super. Plugshare is also something you might want to check out. Many EV'ers publish their home chargers on Plugshare which allows you to perhaps use their infrastructure to recharge. For instance my HPWC is on Plugshare. We all have to help out in a pinch. I wonder if you have used these tools to help plan your trips?

    Lastly, HPWC's are really popping up faster than Tesla can put them on the map. There is a list version for your state which may be more up to date. Also, you can call Tesla support, the next time you are in a pinch for some KW and ask them for the nearest destination charger location.

    As time goes by, where to get a gulp of KW's will become less and less of a problem. But for now, EV'ing is somewhat like the old west and stage coaching. Just like there were stage coach stops then... we have Superchargers and Destination chargers now.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    That energy usage is crazy high, especially for such low speed. AC uses very little power. A mile should take around 300Wh. At 60mph I can usually get 250-270 Wh/mile. At 1.3kWh/mile you are over 4x normal consumption.
     
  13. Bighorn

    Bighorn Member

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    1.36kWh for one mile--must have been driving with the E-brake on! AC consumes between one and two kW. Something is radically off with your car if you're reporting accurately. Florida is 300Wh/m territory in my experience.
     
  14. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Not in normal every day driving. Not having AC here in LA would be very ... smelly :)
    Of course there are situations where I reduced the AC or heater to reduce energy consumption when it was a close call. I would never plan for it, though. If on a road trip, I would always charge a little longer to have extra energy for full AC or heater use and driving at a good speed.
     
  15. llngoc

    llngoc Member

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    I agreed with everyone about pre-planning with EVTripPlanner, Tesla site and/or the Nav app in-car. I would have never driven my Tesla anywhere over distance if I do not do any of these and also booked a hotel with destination charging. I also called the evening before to ensure the charger at the hotel is working and "reserve" the charger for the evening on my last trip to Ferndale, CA. I find it just as natural as part of any trip planning.

    The only time I had range anxiety was 12/26/2015 returning from LA to the SF Bay Area when the Tejon Ranch SC was completely booked and I took a chance to drive all the way to Harris Ranch SC. I did turn down the heat and the post-X'mas traffic jam ensured that I was going slooooow. I got to Harris Ranch with >20 miles left. ;)
     
  16. hacer

    hacer Member

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    Probably set it to creep mode so no regeneration then didn't like it moving with foot off the pedal so turned on the E-brake and drove around like that. Can't think of any other way to get the consumption so high except pulling a huge trailer. Even windows down with AC on would not cause that excessive consumption. The strange part is that the mileage gained/lost from the foolish trip to the 120V outlet is consistent with 300 Wh/mi.
     
  17. Gynob001

    Gynob001 Member

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    Where did you get that I "Intentionally avoiding..."?
     
  18. Gynob001

    Gynob001 Member

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    Thanks-I did use one of them and used the Cherger at the Museum of Science and History. It required a MOSH card and doesn't take charge cards.
     
  19. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    That would be the part where you said:
    "Next time I will top it off whenever I see a super charger,"

    I do apologize if I misunderstood the route you were taking and where you charged. For each of the segments of Orlando, Port Orange, St. Augustine, Jacksonville, there aren't any that are more than 75 miles apart, so getting to and from the destination should have been pretty simple, so it seems that this was just about finding charging for the local driving within Jacksonville, rather than travel along the highway.

    As for the destination, it's about 45 miles from St. Augustine to Jacksonville, so filling most of the way up before heading into Jacksonville should have covered most of the local driving, but this is where people need to start influencing the hotel culture by voting with their dollars. I hear people say, "The hotel we were staying at didn't have charging." That shows that they have gotten things backward. With an electric car, charging at a hotel is just like any other amenity you want, like internet service. You don't book the hotel first and then check to find out if it has the charging you want. You filter by which ones have charging available and stay at one of those. Customers and dollars will start to shift to those hotels that offer it, and then more hotels will start to offer it in the future, making more selection available.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    There is either a major problem with your car, or a major problem with your on-board FPU.
     

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