[Rant] locals clogging the Highland Park, IL supercharger

[techmaven]

I'm wondering if it is cheaper for Tesla to build in autopilot in Model 3's and robotic snakes for Supercharging management rather than build out Supercharger plugs to accommodate much higher numbers of owners. After all, TACC is soon to be a safety requirement so some level of hardware must exist in the car anyways.

 

[ohmman]

That gives many chances and even when an owner has been put in the "Bill" mode, the first hour is free and the second hour reasonable. Once in the "Bill" mode, going into the second hour is annoying, and going into the third hour and beyond will get most folks attention.

I like it. The main downside I see is the accounting overhead, specifically as it relates to those "special situations". But it's not insurmountable (most things aren't), and some variation of this would go a long way to cleaning things up. That $5 charge sounds measly at first, but when you realize the offenders are often going just to save $7-10.. it's probably a motivator for them.

I also like that it doesn't charge for every use. That starts to smell elitist, and I don't think the network should discriminate based on Model (S/X/3).

 

[byan1232]

Tesla should charge $10k for supercharging option on the Model 3, if not it's going to be really bad then.

Actually I agree on this point. The superchargers are supposed to be exclusive and for us who pay over $100k for a car, we should get some priority.

 

[TexasEV]

I think if Tesla bills $10 for each hour over 2 hours of parking will help fix this... people will have to pay a bit more attention to how long they park the car. It shouldn't affect anyone at all that uses the network properly, but those that tend to leave the car, unthinking, might have to think twice.

I've suggested a parking fee for being plugged into a supercharger after 90 minutes, a little less lenient than 2 hours. Either way it doesn't change Tesla's commitment to free supercharging, as the car would have stopped supercharging long before the parking fee kicks in.

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I wonder if some of the larger Supercharger sites could have 1-2 pairs of Superchargers dedicated to true out-of-towners. They wouldn't even start charging for locals and signage would indicate it. When passing through a non-Supercharger city on a long trip, I did encounter a local Tesla owner had just arrived at the Nissan dealership before me and was using the CHAdeMO. After a short discussion, they revealed they lived just a few blocks away and even had a decently sized solar array. They were just using Nissan's CHAdeMO to keep getting money from their local utility and was initially content making me and my family wait for them to charge to 100%, even though I had indicated I was a long distance traveller with out of state plates. After a little social engineering which involved the clever use of my children, I was able to charge our car to make it 200 miles away to our destination for the night.

No, that would just validate the idea that it's ok for locals to use the superchargers regularly even if they have charging available at home.

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Actually I agree on this point. The superchargers are supposed to be exclusive and for us who pay over $100k for a car, we should get some priority.

Who said superchargers are supposed to be "exclusive"? And if a P85D that cost $120,000 pulls up does that mean he should get priority over my 60 that only cost 2/3 as much?

 

[ohmman]

Actually I agree on this point. The superchargers are supposed to be exclusive and for us who pay over $100k for a car, we should get some priority.

And that's the other side, I guess. My view is that superchargers enable long distance transportation and therefore encourage EV adoption. Tesla's mission is to accelerate the spread of sustainable transport. Limiting the most accessible (price-wise) vehicles to paying an enormous fee is in direct conflict with that mission. I'm hoping your argument has to do with the cost of build out. If so, it'll be interesting to see how much of the profit from the M3 will be allocated to the network.

 

[byan1232]

And that's the other side, I guess. My view is that superchargers enable long distance transportation and therefore encourage EV adoption. Tesla's mission is to accelerate the spread of sustainable transport. Limiting the most accessible (price-wise) vehicles to paying an enormous fee is in direct conflict with that mission. I'm hoping your argument has to do with the cost of build out. If so, it'll be interesting to see how much of the profit from the M3 will be allocated to the network.

Actually I think I would take back my comment if the model 3 sales allow Tesla to dramatically increase the number of SCs to the point where there wont be a ridiculous wait when we need it.

 

[marcad80]

Take a note from AT&T and there unlimited cell phone internet usage....

Every supercharger within 100 miles of your home, Tesla limits to 5kW charge rate. Slower than the HPWC's.

Therefore Tesla meets its contractual requirement of unlimited charging in the SC network, any local needing an emergency charge can get one to get home, the A-B charger set up allows the B site to still charge at full rate.

If I was a SC abuser at lunch, I wouldn't even plug in for 2.5KwH of power. If I was a SC abuser at home, I couldn't leave my car there overnight.

Anyone upset should go back and listen to what they were told (like AT&T internet abusers), unlimited free access to the SC network. Still true.

 

[Lloyd]

Here is a very simple solution, that I propose for progressive billing:

• Give owners, many, multiple educational warnings. Accept special situations, and give two more warnings before starting to bill.
• First hour free, even after going to Bill mode.
• Second hour $5.
• Third hour and beyond, $50 per hour.

That gives many chances and even when an owner has been put in the "Bill" mode, the first hour is free and the second hour reasonable. Once in the "Bill" mode, going into the second hour is annoying, and going into the third hour and beyond will get most folks attention.

I like this idea!!

 

[bhuwan]

You should see the situation in California. Much worse.

Free supercharging has to go away or become very limited. I don't care who it pisses off, or what people have to say. If you aren't using the network for long term trips, or emergency charging , then you should not be allowed to use it. I don't care if the original sales person said this usage was okay.!

 

[David99]

Here is the problem with charging money for time parked at a Supercharger. Once people pay, they feel entitled and will not move their car. They will consider Superchargers as priority parking and insist on, ' I can stay here because I payed for it'. Once people pay for something, they want to get their money's worth.

 

[bhuwan]

Take a note from AT&T and there unlimited cell phone internet usage....

Every supercharger within 100 miles of your home, Tesla limits to 5kW charge rate. Slower than the HPWC's.

Therefore Tesla meets its contractual requirement of unlimited charging in the SC network, any local needing an emergency charge can get one to get home, the A-B charger set up allows the B site to still charge at full rate.

If I was a SC abuser at lunch, I wouldn't even plug in for 2.5KwH of power. If I was a SC abuser at home, I couldn't leave my car there overnight.

Anyone upset should go back and listen to what they were told (like AT&T internet abusers), unlimited free access to the SC network. Still true.

I hear you and I agree somethings needs to happen but this isn't the most ideal situation. There's arw two supercharger a that are 40 and 55 miles from me. I have to use them for a day trip to either the casinos or RI beaches.

This is because there is a lack of destination chargers or they are too slow. (One is 16 miles an hour)

I hardly use those super charges but when I do...it's enough to get home and get on my HPWC

 

[FredTMC]

Take a note from AT&T and there unlimited cell phone internet usage....

Every supercharger within 100 miles of your home, Tesla limits to 5kW charge rate. Slower than the HPWC's.

Therefore Tesla meets its contractual requirement of unlimited charging in the SC network, any local needing an emergency charge can get one to get home, the A-B charger set up allows the B site to still charge at full rate.

If I was an SC abuser at lunch, I wouldn't even plug in for 2.5KwH of power. If I was an SC abuser at home, I couldn't leave my car there overnight.

Anyone upset should go back and listen to what they were told (like AT&T internet abusers), unlimited access to the SC network. Still true.

Ive thought about this a lot. Slowing the charge rate isn't the answer because a local could park for hours and clog the stall. I think the right answer is to charge a fee for local supercharger use. If it's not cheaper to use the local SpC, the locals won't do it as often. They'll primarily do it when they need a quick charge. That's fine

I support charging locals for local SpC use. Not an outrageous fee, just something that is around the KWH rate they would pay at home. This discourages locals from hogging SpC to get free charges but still allows locals to get a quick charge if they are low on charge and have more driving to do that day

 

[ohmman]

Here is the problem with charging money for time parked at a Supercharger. Once people pay, they feel entitled and will not move their car. They will consider Superchargers as priority parking and insist on, ' I can stay here because I payed for it'. Once people pay for something, they want to get their money's worth.

Perhaps the solution should be a per-minute charge, then. Might be more motivating.

 

[AWDtsla]

Take a note from AT&T and there unlimited cell phone internet usage....

Every supercharger within 100 miles of your home, Tesla limits to 5kW charge rate. Slower than the HPWC's.

Therefore Tesla meets its contractual requirement of unlimited charging in the SC network, any local needing an emergency charge can get one to get home, the A-B charger set up allows the B site to still charge at full rate.

If I was a SC abuser at lunch, I wouldn't even plug in for 2.5KwH of power. If I was a SC abuser at home, I couldn't leave my car there overnight.

Anyone upset should go back and listen to what they were told (like AT&T internet abusers), unlimited free access to the SC network. Still true.

Yeah, so that same guy can leave his car at the supercharger all day instead of an hour. Do not underestimate their will to be a sociopathic cheap f***

 

[Twiglett]

Yeah, so that same guy can leave his car at the supercharger all day instead of an hour. Do not underestimate their will to be a sociopathic cheap f***

charging fees may not work - but maybe a nic photographic name and shame

 

[AWDtsla]

charging fees may not work - but maybe a nic photographic name and shame

Who's going to print out some stickers? Ep.17 - Sticker For the Lady - YouTube

 

[LoL Rick]

Ok, now we're talking about two things with two different answers.

1. Regular usage of superchargers instead of home (or other public) charging.
2. Use of superchargers as parking places.

For number 1, I think some sort of scheme to slow them down could work. Not all the time, just after a pattern of abuse has been established. But this is going to require some software development and some communication - nether of which are Tesla's strong suits.

For number 2, tow them. At my condo we have some parking spots that are good for 30 minutes and we contract with a towing company to take away any cars that sit for too long. We don't pay anything for it because they collect the fees from the car owner. For this, I could see an enhancement to the pedestals or the central supercharger station that says "Charge Complete" and "Time Expired." Then the towing company would need an electronic key to unlock the cable from an offending car. After that, they're gone and out of Tesla's hair.

No matter how you cut it, setting up a billing and collection system is a pain. I secretly think that's a big part of why we're getting free data for so long - Tesla doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with it. So I think it is unlikely that they will employ a payment strategy as a deterrent for anything.

 

[patrick42h]

Who's going to print out some stickers? Ep.17 - Sticker For the Lady - YouTube

They really should put in some bollards to keeps cars off that path.

 

[jeffro01]

The problem is one person's abuse is another person's "I paid for it so I'm going to use it", or something along those lines. I would concur that the guy parking his car at the supercharger all day is wrong, and shouldn't be allowed. I also agree that superchargers are not to be a replacement for home charging. People using them as such, and there are active members here who openly admit to doing so, are the very example of selfish\entitled people. If you can't charge at home or at work, then don't buy a Tesla, that's my take on it. I can promise you that I'd be livid if I was traveling and had to wait on a supercharger spot for some local who simply didn't want to charge at home, and I'd have no problems venting my frustration towards that individual if I ever encounter one.

As to the solution, I really don't think there is one, especially now. Even if Tesla was strong with sensible, consistent, thoughtful, and articulate customer communication I just don't see how you single out people when you're advertising something different. Someone had the idea of restricting supercharging rates for anyone with an ownership address within 100 miles of the supercharger, I don't see how that works. All that's going to do is cause people to hang out there even longer and is likely getting into a legal issue, as well as, unnecessary customer angst during abnormal situations.

There really is no good solution to this issue from Tesla's perspective. Remember when Elon dropped the hint during the shareholders meeting (IIRC) and then the subsequent email went out and some people seemingly lost their freaking minds? I think that was Tesla's attempt at corralling this and it simply didn't work and really couldn't work. The only way Tesla could start to move the needle on this is to officially change their advertising and public stance on this issue and slowly grandfather in existing owners but I think if you're Tesla that's more of a PR nightmare than it's worth... Not to mention those who are litigious in nature causing Tesla grief legally...

It'll be interesting to see what Tesla does with the Model 3 and how it chooses to change\alter\update it's supercharging message to those buyers, if they change anything at all...

Jeff

 

[ohmman]

There really is no good solution to this issue from Tesla's perspective.

Nice thoughtful post, Jeff. I agree there's no good, easy solution, but I do think there's probably something they can do. However, I don't think the problem is bad enough yet to size up the motivation.

I do think that social norming is a powerful tool. If the appropriate message can be formulated and propagated out to owners (especially if coming from owners), I believe the embarrassment of seeing someone waiting will overtake the desire for the equivalent of a free cup of coffee. Hopefully I'm not naively optimistic..