Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Rated Range is going... UP

MartinAustin

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,733
11,573
Austin, Texas USA
I've been driving my P85 in Austin, TX for Uber for coming up to three months now. I'll be covering my Uber experiences in another thread that I'm preparing, but this post is about the unexpected behaviour I'm seeing with Rated Range under Range Charging.

My P85 turned two years old yesterday. When I got it, the Rated Range was 269 miles. The 80% battery warranty level was therefore 215.2 miles. (right?)

Over the years, the Rated Range fell slowly to 255 miles by September 2015. Needless to say I was not happy about this, because it was linearly tracking to have 216.4 miles when it turns 8 years old!!! Just enough to not require a new battery :(

(I do not represent that the science of linearly tracking Rated Range is the best theory for projecting 8-yr-range, but it's my only theory right now)

However, when I started to drive Uber, I started Range Charging the car every day. (Yes I've been driving the car as soon as reasonably possible after charging completes.) This has not resulted in a precipitous drop in Rated Range... in fact it has gone UP.

As of yesterday the Rated Range was 259 miles, climbing 1 by 1 from 255 in September - and this morning it jumped up by 2 miles to 261 miles. Odometer reads 45,425 miles, and v7.0 (2.7.77) is installed. Linearly tracking to have 237 miles by the time the car is 8yrs old.

Anyone got any explanations for this? Am I still somehow ruining my battery by so much Range Charging, and don't know it yet? Will it continue rising?

I don't recall the Rate Range of the car climbing through the cold months of 2014-2015, I think it has gradually fallen through out the car's life until this recent change. I don't think I should attribute it to charging in colder weather, because frankly, the car is only charged inside the garage of my house (80A HPWC), which is not air-conditioned but is a great deal more moderate than the outside of the house, which during this 3-month period has been like 38F to 99F.
 
Last edited:

jcaspar

Member
Aug 19, 2013
834
72
Sacramento
That is great! If you went up 2 miles from yesterday and you are linearly tracking this out, you should be at 60 more in a month or 315! 375 by the next month! :smile:

I think it is impossible to predict range depletion based by looking at short term changes as my 90% charge can vary by 2-5 miles depending on the day. Even yearly changes, due to different algorithms with software updates are hard to predict. All of our batteries will decrease in range as times go on and is usually is not a constant linear decrease. Typically a drop off is noted in the first year or so followed by a plateau from what I have seen.
 

MartinAustin

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,733
11,573
Austin, Texas USA
I agree about the plateau, which appeared to settle at 255.

It's not really "varying" though - it's climbing. I'm talking about observing the range of the car after it has fully-charged. Over the last three months, it has not gone down even once - only stayed the same number from one day to the next, or gone up.
 

Branzo90D

Salt and Pepper
Oct 13, 2015
154
100
NorCal
There is a fairly significant battery study recently published in the forums about range changes with time. Of course, I have not seen anything that would predict that it should increase. My P90D is only a few months old, so I have only noticed the initial trend toward a 5% or so drop of early in the battery pack life thus far.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,383
3,355
Phoenix, AZ
Tesla does not warrant battery degradation. There is no 80% standard as you mention above. Unless the battery or modules fail outright, degradation is simply not covered. Read your warranty.
 

FlasherZ

Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv
Jun 21, 2012
7,024
1,013
There is a fairly significant battery study recently published in the forums about range changes with time. Of course, I have not seen anything that would predict that it should increase. My P90D is only a few months old, so I have only noticed the initial trend toward a 5% or so drop of early in the battery pack life thus far.

The rated range appears to vary. On my car, it varies by seasonal temperature outside. See my graphs here:
Displayed Range and Seasonality

My car's rated range does increase as we enter spring, then declines as we head toward winter. Linear regression shows -1.5 miles per year but you'll see increases and decreases as the seasons move.
 

MartinAustin

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,733
11,573
Austin, Texas USA
I've begun to notice the following behaviour, too - just didn't mention it above.

Whatever the miles number is when charging stops, it seems to add a mile if I leave the car alone and then check it an hour or two later.

So it has been charging to 260 miles (done it twice now), and it added a mile all by itself after charging had stopped, to 261. Cable was still connected, but I don't believe it had drawn any power from the wall.

I've seen that at other levels - charging to 255 and then adding one to 256 after a hour or two, and so on.

Perhaps the car is able to "re-assess" charge level and come to a different conclusion with the benefit of time passing after charging has ended.

- - - Updated - - -

Linear regression shows -1.5 miles per year

I would be very happy to see 1.5 miles per year range reduction!

I would wager that gasoline cars probably have at least that much, too!!!
 

techmaven

Active Member
Feb 27, 2013
3,618
9,711
This likely has to do with balancing. Since you are range charging more, the battery has more of a chance to balance. If you drive to very low and then range charge several times, the battery range estimator can have a better look at the real state of charge. However, you are actually degrading your pack more than if you didn't have that kind of charging behavior.

As a result, the 255 number is an underestimate of the actual health and state of charge of the battery, but for most of us, we shouldn't range charge or fully cycle the battery just to get a better estimate of the real state of charge.
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,392
732
San Diego, California
My take on this is because you are driving for Uber. Yes it's because you are driving for Uber that is going up. Hear me out before you toss this comment to the trash.

From my experience of my Spark EV, I noticed if I drive city a lot, my range would climb a bit every time I fully charge. Once I move back to my typical Highway driving for the most part, it would settle back down a bit.

I take it Tesla's Algorithm is adapting to your driving habits and give you a better estimate of your range. Because you are Ubering a lot, you are probably doing something to be more efficient than when you are not.

One test you can do is stop driving for Uber for a while and see how it affects your range. Or better yet, do a bunch of road trips (Opposite of Ubering) to see how it changes your range.
 

lg_golfs

Member
Feb 26, 2015
231
90
Southern California
This likely has to do with balancing. Since you are range charging more, the battery has more of a chance to balance. If you drive to very low and then range charge several times, the battery range estimator can have a better look at the real state of charge. However, you are actually degrading your pack more than if you didn't have that kind of charging behavior.

As a result, the 255 number is an underestimate of the actual health and state of charge of the battery, but for most of us, we shouldn't range charge or fully cycle the battery just to get a better estimate of the real state of charge.

I just had my car into a SC and mentioned I was not happy with the range I have lost so far.

Their suggestion was to balance. Take it as low as I could and then to 90% and if possible 100% if I was going on a longer trip that day.

My normal life will not allow this, but, my current slacker abnormal life of not traveling nor working till Jan 9th has me testing this theory out.

Just crawled in at 19 miles. Plan a full charge than wash rinse and repeat a few times. Color me curious!
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,651
1,026
Greendale, Wisconsin
I've been driving my P85 in Austin, TX for Uber for coming up to three months now. I'll be covering my Uber experiences in another thread that I'm preparing, but this post is about the unexpected behaviour I'm seeing with Rated Range under Range Charging.

My P85 turned two years old yesterday. When I got it, the Rated Range was 269 miles. The 80% battery warranty level was therefore 215.2 miles. (right?)

Over the years, the Rated Range fell slowly to 255 miles by September 2015. Needless to say I was not happy about this, because it was linearly tracking to have 216.4 miles when it turns 8 years old!!! Just enough to not require a new battery :(

(I do not represent that the science of linearly tracking Rated Range is the best theory for projecting 8-yr-range, but it's my only theory right now)

However, when I started to drive Uber, I started Range Charging the car every day. (Yes I've been driving the car as soon as reasonably possible after charging completes.) This has not resulted in a precipitous drop in Rated Range... in fact it has gone UP.

As of yesterday the Rated Range was 259 miles, climbing 1 by 1 from 255 in September - and this morning it jumped up by 2 miles to 261 miles. Odometer reads 45,425 miles, and v7.0 (2.7.77) is installed. Linearly tracking to have 237 miles by the time the car is 8yrs old.

Anyone got any explanations for this? Am I still somehow ruining my battery by so much Range Charging, and don't know it yet? Will it continue rising?

I don't recall the Rate Range of the car climbing through the cold months of 2014-2015, I think it has gradually fallen through out the car's life until this recent change. I don't think I should attribute it to charging in colder weather, because frankly, the car is only charged inside the garage of my house (80A HPWC), which is not air-conditioned but is a great deal more moderate than the outside of the house, which during this 3-month period has been like 38F to 99F.


Explanation:
"Tesla Motors Model S: Increase in Rated Range Explained
----------------------------------------*-------------
In this video, I explain why my range has increased back up to 209, from seemingly permanent range loss over the past 10 months."

And what Prompted me to "Explain the Above"


"Tesla Motors Model S: Range Update 54,000 Miles 20,000 on Replacement Battery, INSANE!!!!! 209 RATED!

________________________________________*_______
Range has increased once again!!! Up to 209 Rated Range!!! Stay tuned for my upcoming video explaining why this is!"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MartinAustin

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,733
11,573
Austin, Texas USA
Explanation:

That certainly looks like an explanation, and correlates pretty well with what I am seeing. Some slight deviations from KManAuto's experience... I have left my car charged at 100% for several hours on quite a few occasions. I didn't like what I was doing but it doesn't seem to have harmed things (unless my mileage recovery could be even more profound without those episodes). Secondly, I have 100%-charged the car many times from a high SOC, like 90% even. Perhaps this doesn't really help the car do its balancing operations. I haven't had the car down to 10% SOC for a long time... perhaps I should try that.

I woke up this morning to see this New Year's Day Miracle:
range262B.png
range262A.png

Now it's only seven miles lower that what it had 2 years and 47,000 miles ago. Not bad!
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top