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Rav4 EV vs Model S 40kWh

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Kipernicus, Aug 10, 2012.

?

Which is the better buy?

  1. Model S 40kWh

    33 vote(s)
    64.7%
  2. Toyota Rav4 EV

    18 vote(s)
    35.3%
  1. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    So, if someone is in the market for a ~$50k EV, which is the better buy?

    Some of the early reviews have already tagged the Rav4 EV as a plausible substitute for the base Model S, but it makes for an interesting comparison of 2 rather different cars with similar powertrains.

    1. Both have essentially the same powertrain, with 40kWh in the Model S and 41.8kWh in the Rav 4, but since the Rav4 is a CUV with higher drag coefficient and possibly larger frontal area the driving range will probably be lower.
    2. Model S is a little faster 0-60 and handles better due to its lower center of gravity, longer and wider wheelbase, bigger tires, etc.
    3. Rav4 seems to have a lower price, but we don't yet know the options pricing. Advertised price of $49k before tax rebates vs base Model S 40 of $57.4k
    4. Cargo room is similar (36.4 cu ft Rav4 vs 36.8 MS seats up; 73cf vs 66cf max cargo)
    5. Rav4 is a more manageable size (width 71.5" Rav4 vs 77.3 MS; length 181.9 vs 195.9; height 66.3 vs 56.5)
    6. Luxury features - I think the Model S has more choices but at a cost
    7. 17" touchscreen for the Model S - a positive for some, negative for others
    8. Charging options - Model S wins here, with its 240v capable UMC
    9. Rav4 has better back seat headroom (39.7" vs 36.6), but 3 in the back seat may be a tight squeeze. No rear jumpseat option.
    10. Availability - for now Model S wins here
    11. Rav4 has built in rear seat cupholders

    Source for dimensions: Edmunds, using regular 2012 Rav4
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Hmm, MS doesn't really win on availability since we still haven't confirmed #1 was delivered yet. I suspect you may be able to walk in and buy a Rav and get it before an S.

    I think its good it's out now and not right before the X as Toyota has a better track record, larger consumer base, the rav is likely cheaper and, with the traditional styling, won't turn folks off like the falcon doors might.
     
  3. PRJIM

    PRJIM Member

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    People that live far away from Tesla service centers and do not want to incur extra ranger maintenance costs may opt for the Rav 4 EV over a Tesla. I wonder if there will be any chance of getting a Tesla serviced at a Toyota dealership. The silver lining for Tesla owners may be future access to workshop manuals for proprietary power train bits?
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I think Toyota has said that that RAV4EV is only going to be serviced at a few specialize locations in California. You probably actually have more service options nation wide with Tesla.
     
  5. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

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    Did they nix the 3rd row split/seat in the Rav4 EV that the regular Rav4 had? They used have two additional seats in the 3rd row as an option.
     
  6. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

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    My wife decided she didn't want falcon doors, we converted our X back into another S reservation. I pondered getting the Rav4, but decreased range and the fact that it's still the same $22K Rav4, was a no brainer to just get two Model S and no more ICE cars. We'll get both 85kw and a 40kw, since we only need one with a longer range. The base Model S plus options still gives you the same styling and interior comforts as the $100K versions, just less performance and less range.
     
  7. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    The RAV4 EV doesn't have something equivalent to the Model S Universal Mobile Connector. Therefore, it is not possible to charge the RAV4 from 240 volt outlets such as NEMA 14-50 outlets.

    Larry
     
  8. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

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    Hi Larry. While I don't know the specifics of the portable chargers the RAV4 EV will come with, I can say others have successfully converted the chargers (Panasonic) that plug-in Toyotas currently use to 240V (low currents thou: 16A? 24A? seems to depend on both wiring obviously but also firmware of charger). The form factor of these chargers is pretty close the UMC (but end up in a J1772 connector)
     
  9. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    RAV4 EV
    [​IMG]
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    FAQs for RAV4 EV Customers | Leviton Information Exchange
     
  11. dsinned

    dsinned Member

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    Leviton also currently offer their EVR-Green 320 series which are J1772 compliant EVSE L2 home chargers rated for 7.7kW (240V, 32A) output. I picked up mine from Home Depot Online for $1099 + tax, with free shipping. It is pre-configured as a "plug-in" with a UL approved, NEMA 6-50P connectorized input cord and can be easily wall mounted with a Leviton "pre-wire installation kit" ($80, Home Depot). It is in a 35 pound, weatherproof, all steel, gray power coated, enclosure, with a 25' output cord, or for $100 less, with a 18' cord. It comes with a 3 year Leviton warranty as well.

    I use it to charge my VOLT and RAV4 EV and it works flawless and cut charging time WAAAY down compared to the "as equipped" OEM 115V 12A chargers.
     
  12. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Member

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    The portable EVSE for Rav4 is the same Panasonic unit provided with the Toyota Plug In Prius. It can be upgraded to 200- 250 volt, however it does not have the ability to increase the current above the as delivered 12 amps. I've had mine modified by EVSE Upgrade - Products.

    The Rav4 would not work with my modified 16 amp / 240 volt Panasonic EVSE that is used in the Nissan LEAF.

    Certainly, there's no reason you can't use the $1500 UMC from the Roadster, but you will have to put a $200 J1772-2009 compliant handle on it. Tesla will not yet sell the UMC for Model S.
     
  13. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    The AeroVironment 240V 30A wall charger is small & light and would fit inside a car nicely. I suspect the Levitton "40A" units are really 30A max units designed for 40A breaker. I like the design of the AeroV with the built-in plug holder. Plus the idea of keeping the physical unit inside the car. But we'll see what cables etc arrive with the S.
    --
     
  14. dsinned

    dsinned Member

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    Toyota is already deep discounting the RAV4 EV attempting to boost sluggish sales. Much to my dismay, I bought mine last month when no such deal was available. Nevertheless,it is still a great EV and the only one of its kind based on a compact SUV. As a "2nd" EV, it's the one you'll drive every day, and use to go to the mall or stock up on groceries. The real advantage it has over the Model S is that it blends in to the crowd. It does not draw attention to itself like a Model S most certain would. There is no way I would intentionally drive an "S" to be parked unattended for a couple hours while out shopping. I don't think I would feel comfortable even if it was parked at most "public" charging stations. The RAV4 EV will easily be mistaken as nothing special and not as likely to be targeted by an auto thief. But, beneath its plain exterior is essentially a Tesla-esque performance car just raring to go; the best of both worlds.
     
  15. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Member

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    #16 TonyWilliams, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
    I drove my Rav4 191 miles today, and now, after several long distance jaunts, I'm getting a good handle on performance. I started at 100%, drove 17 miles, and once again charged to close to 100% in about 45 minutes (9.6kW Clipper Creek, about 6.5kWh).

    It was over 80 miles to a meeting, then a few more miles to find a charging station. I charged for 1+14 hours at 6.05kW for a total of 7.4kWh at the Tesla store in Newport Beach (ChargePoint). We ate at the Cheese Cake Factory, and then onward home. Unfortunately, it looked like my awesome plan was going to come up a bit short, so I stopped for 36 minutes at 6.05kW for 3.54kWh (GE WattStation).

    The trip was driven at 55-60mph on mostly freeways. No heater in 55F - 60F temperatures and rain. I arrived home a few miles from dead ("LO" range).

    41.8 kWh start
    5.6 (6.5 added at 86% efficiency)
    6.4 (7.4 added)
    3.0 (3.5 added)
    56.8 total

    56.0 estimated burn

    2+35 hours/minutes of total charging

    191 miles / 56 kWh = 3.4 miles per kWh (294 watts per mile)

    305 km / 56 kWh = 5.45 km per kWh (183 watts per km)
     
  16. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    As of right now, I'm in really into this car because it's the only SUV that goes over 100 miles. My wife will be getting a new car in a few years and she wants an SUV since we have a child now. I'm trying to convince her to get this one because it meets both of our wishes. I really don't want her buying another gas guzzling SUV, but these are not in Texas for us to test drive. Such a shame.
     
  17. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Member

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    Non-stop service on Southwest from Love Field to SAN.... I found a $138 web only one way. Drive it home or ship it.
     
  18. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    A valid option, one that I have considered...just remember that you may have to ship it two ways if it needs service later. Obviously it depends on what service it needs, but for some things your local Toyota dealer may not have the required tools or training.

    I wonder what things on a RAV4-EV Tesla could service...for $ of course. Again, Toyota may have tools that Tesla doesn't. Hard to say.
     
  19. dsinned

    dsinned Member

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    I'm sure there is a whole bunch of extra red tape associated with buying a 2012 RAV4 EV from outside CA. Nevertheless, it is an awesome electrofied SUV with terrific range, currently sold (in CA) at a deeply discounted price with 0% financing, AND buyers also get the $7500 tax credit! I'm sure glad I live in CA.
     

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