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RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid

seattlite2004

Active Member
Apr 12, 2016
1,186
1,342
Puget Sound
Early Look at 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/10/2021-toyota-rav4-plug-in-hybrid-teased-debuts-in-los-angeles/
The 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid Might Become The Most Popular Plug-In Ever

rav4-plugin-001-1570643485.jpg
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,362
6,065
Los Altos, CA
More cars with plugs are good. Pure EVs are better. IMHO, PHEV is still a bridge solution for people who are resistant to change.

Toyota says this will be the most powerful RAV4 ever. The 2012 3.5L V6 was 201kW (270hp). The 2019 RAV4 Hybrid is 163kW (219hp). I expect that they will use the same Atkinson cycle 4 cylinder engine as the current RAV4 Hybrid, so they need to increase the electric power by at least 38kW to beat the V6 in power. Most likely, that will mean a larger electric motor on the rear axle. That could be interesting if it was 50kW or more. For comparison, the rear e-axle made by GKN for the BMW 2 Series Active Tourer PHEV is 70kW.

I think the main point of disappointment will be the traction battery size and all electric range. I expect the electric efficiency to be similar to the Outlander PHEV which uses 45kWh/100 miles. That means that the expected 25 mile range will probably come from a 12kWh usable battery. I would hope that they would max out the tax credit and put a 16kWh battery in it. That would give it more like 35 miles of AER. However, I don't think there's any way Toyota will do that.
 

alanbyvale

Member
Aug 11, 2019
53
16
Nottingham
I have owned a RAV 4 hybrid for the last 3 years and would have originally gone for a plug-in version to replace it if they were in the UK. However, I think it is too little, too late. Whilst a great car (the one I currently have) having two motors to keep serviced doesn't seem the way to go. My M3 is due to arrive on 14th November (just heard now!) and the lease on the RAV 4 finishes on the 15th. Wish we could have planned that!
 
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ralph142

Member
Mar 8, 2019
360
308
bellingham, wa
We have a leased rav 4 hybrid, waiting for the model y to replace it. Seriously gutless, and the interior cargo space is violently compromised by the battery placement under the rear seat row.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,631
7,799
Maine
You may wish for a BEV version, but I think Toyota will sell as many as they care to make. The RAV4 hybrid is by far the top selling hybrid in the USA. A half-decent RAV4 PHEV should quickly become the number 2 plug-in for US sales.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,631
7,799
Maine
I have owned a RAV 4 hybrid for the last 3 years and would have originally gone for a plug-in version to replace it if they were in the UK. However, I think it is too little, too late. Whilst a great car (the one I currently have) having two motors to keep serviced doesn't seem the way to go. My M3 is due to arrive on 14th November (just heard now!) and the lease on the RAV 4 finishes on the 15th. Wish we could have planned that!

Don't get too excited. The magicians at Tesla seem to be pretty good at making cars disappear.
 
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tonybelding

Active Member
Aug 17, 2006
1,480
799
Hamilton, Texas
When this story about the new RAV4 PHEV first broke, I was mystified by some of the language in the articles. Wildly popular? Best-selling vehicle?

I literally could not recall ever seeing a RAV4, anywhere, any time.

I mean, granted, I hadn't been looking for them before. So, I started looking. Today I finally managed to spot one parked at the local Dollar General. I almost didn't notice it because it looks so generic. (This has become a chronic problem of SUVs and CUVs generally, but I guess that's another topic.)

I live in rural, small-town Texas. The vast majority of cars here — around 90% — are Ford, GM, FCA. So, the area is hardly flooded with Toyotas of any kind. The ones I do see are nearly all sedans, though. Plus one red Solara, which was kind of cool… I guess… by Toyota standards.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,362
6,065
Los Altos, CA
When this story about the new RAV4 PHEV first broke, I was mystified by some of the language in the articles. Wildly popular? Best-selling vehicle?

I literally could not recall ever seeing a RAV4, anywhere, any time.

I mean, granted, I hadn't been looking for them before. So, I started looking. Today I finally managed to spot one parked at the local Dollar General. I almost didn't notice it because it looks so generic. (This has become a chronic problem of SUVs and CUVs generally, but I guess that's another topic.)

I live in rural, small-town Texas. The vast majority of cars here — around 90% — are Ford, GM, FCA. So, the area is hardly flooded with Toyotas of any kind. The ones I do see are nearly all sedans, though. Plus one red Solara, which was kind of cool… I guess… by Toyota standards.
Clearly your area is not representative of USA sales. The table below is from GoodCarBadCar.net It is truncated to the top 20 models in the Small SUV segment. RAV4 is selling at more than double the rate of the #5 Ford Escape.

Small SUV Sales Table 2019Q3.jpg


If you look at all vehicles, only the full size pickups (F-Series, RAM, Silverado, in that order) sell more units per year. Civic, Camry and Corolla slot in between the Rogue and Equinox in the table above with 80-something thousand sales in Q3.
 
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Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
The RAV4 Hybrid has a upward slant of the cargo area due to the battery placement under the rear seats. The rear seats do not fold flat. The real world mpg are much better than the listed EPA which surprised me. The stock sound system is a real let down.
 
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Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
Added aftermarket heated seats, replaced all the speakers and added an amplifier and subwoofer. Took off the stock manual adjusting mirror and replaced with auto dimming with homelink and compass.
 

dipper

Member
Nov 4, 2017
279
166
92129
Toyota better make sure it gets at least 35 EV miles. On 12/3/19, CA will require 35 miles range to get $1000. (Reduced from 20 miles and $1500).

That means Ford Escape PHEV will not get CA rebate from CA. That will hurt as most will be sold in CA for car pool lane access.... Like Prius Prime.
 

vickh

Active Member
Dec 16, 2018
3,120
488
az
Toyota better make sure it gets at least 35 EV miles. On 12/3/19, CA will require 35 miles range to get $1000. (Reduced from 20 miles and $1500).

That means Ford Escape PHEV will not get CA rebate from CA. That will hurt as most will be sold in CA for car pool lane access.... Like Prius Prime.

I hope so too. Get the max fed credit as well. Add a 3rd row too
 

bhtooefr

Active Member
Apr 16, 2018
1,156
6,543
Newark, OH, USA
Most likely, that will mean a larger electric motor on the rear axle. That could be interesting if it was 50kW or more. For comparison, the rear e-axle made by GKN for the BMW 2 Series Active Tourer PHEV is 70kW.
Knowing how Toyota hybrids make their performance, they size MG2 to handle MG1+battery output, and MGR is used almost solely to shift power away from MG2 that the front wheels can't handle, not to add power output.

For a point of reference, the Avalon/ES hybrid is 215 hp with the same powertrain (but no MGR). As MGR is 54 hp, I would expect a total power output of ~269-273 hp... and the RAV4 3.5 V6 was 269 hp, so make that range 270-273. Additionally, in EV mode, I would expect a maximum of 244 hp based on my calculations of where I expect MG1 power to be (starting with the Prime, Toyota PHEVs have a one-way clutch to be able to use both MG1 and MG2 to propel the vehicle with the engine off.)

What I really hope is that they don't screw up the packaging. Unfortunately, we all know they'll be never-plugged by people seeking tax credits, which isn't a good use of limited battery supply...
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,362
6,065
Los Altos, CA
Knowing how Toyota hybrids make their performance, they size MG2 to handle MG1+battery output, and MGR is used almost solely to shift power away from MG2 that the front wheels can't handle, not to add power output.

For a point of reference, the Avalon/ES hybrid is 215 hp with the same powertrain (but no MGR). As MGR is 54 hp, I would expect a total power output of ~269-273 hp... and the RAV4 3.5 V6 was 269 hp, so make that range 270-273. Additionally, in EV mode, I would expect a maximum of 244 hp based on my calculations of where I expect MG1 power to be (starting with the Prime, Toyota PHEVs have a one-way clutch to be able to use both MG1 and MG2 to propel the vehicle with the engine off.)

What I really hope is that they don't screw up the packaging. Unfortunately, we all know they'll be never-plugged by people seeking tax credits, which isn't a good use of limited battery supply...
Yes, but as a plug-in it has substantially more power available from the battery. Hopefully that means that they will put more motor in it than the rest of their non plug-in hybrids. Anyway, I'm just dreaming. I don't actually hold out any hope that Toyota will make a truly compelling vehicle that drives well only on electricity. I'm not buying anything with an ICE anyway.
 

640k

Member
Jul 15, 2019
929
631
Cincinnati
Is it just me, or is that one of the ugliest cars?

Also see no driving pleasure being the one stuck driving that thing.

Perhaps good value, but not a very good car.
i almost went with the 19+ RAV4 just because of its aggressive looks for a small, and reasonably affordable, SUV.
2019_rav4_readylift.jpg

But the car is gutless. The hybrid is a full second faster than their standard engine. The packages require you to senselessly spend thousands of dollars for convenience factors. Dealerships are playing a numbers game and due to the demand, will not budge on price.

I was more hung up on the storage usability of the RAV4 vs the M3 but I just couldn't ditch the feeling of the experience of driving the 3.
 

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