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Raven LR vs LR Plus range issue: car value

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Thank you for your comments and encouragement, I really appreciate it!

I’m enjoying my car, no doubt!

I’ll be very open, there is no need to sell me the car - I already bought it!

StillI have a few questions, which I kindly ask you to answer;

What are the conditions and car setting to reach 610 km.?
Why a full charge gets me only 580km.?

Yes, the trip example I shared above, which is very relevant for me, includes elevations which do not seem huge to me, from 400 mt to 1100 mt and down to 100 mt flat for the most part, then only in the last 60 km there are 10 km to go back up to 800mt. The question is:

Regen do not compensate enough on the way down for the elevation stretch? How do I maximize?

The 20 min. stop it’s no issue really! The reason I brought it up is to give a sense of how much time I need to charge, enough to get to my destination, being a trip of 560 km, supposedly reachable with 1 full charge.

What would I do if my car its like a pc? I would be a bit disappointed, as I am right now, seeing a new car 8 months after I bought it nominally overperforming mine and costing significantly less. This because we all heard that this car is supposed to be an appreciating asset in time and not the opposite, unless you can explain me how that it’s done.

Hope you feel that I’m trying to stay the course with this wonderful way of the future,

Cheers!
 
We've owned nine Model S's since 2013, and currently have two MS's in the garage as I type.

The solution to your "problem" is to just buy another one every few years. Teslas hold their value quite well, and there are literally billions of ICE vehicles that need to replaced with EV's.

It's worked well for us. One of our goals in life to do as much as we can to help ensure a livable planet for those that follow. What could be more important?
 
We've owned nine Model S's since 2013, and currently have two MS's in the garage as I type.

The solution to your "problem" is to just buy another one every few years. Teslas hold their value quite well, and there are literally billions of ICE vehicles that need to replaced with EV's.

It's worked well for us. One of our goals in life to do as much as we can to help ensure a livable planet for those that follow. What could be more important?

Thankyou a lot @TSLA Pilot, appreciate your view.

For us is only the 2nd S in one year as I traded in the 75D for the Raven LR last October for more range. We did the EV move after decades of German cars as this was our resolution: our next car will be EV for the very same goal you mentioned.

I do not want to leave wrong impressions here, we love our car. Here in Switzerland it’s obviously much quieter and on a smaller scale, even though 3s are the best selling cars these days and SC network is still V2 but great!

It might be that reading all the posts in this big forum which provides all sorts of up to date info and feedback, it got me excited to ensure we would not miss out on the latest features/upgrades being rolled out, such as the OTA range increase from actual 360 to 391 miles as I’ve seen some have already received on S LR in the US.

As to best range achieved, It would be great if you could tell me what has been your experience and possibly the hints or setting you suggest looking at ~400 miles trip or close to the one I shared above.

This trip was usually, under normal traffic and weather condtions, a 6-6.5 hours thing with ICE before.

The fact is that today, even with S LR, I cannot make it in less than 8 hours and, carrying elderly people, the stops are ok but, 1.5-2 hours more travelling time it weighs on them.

Now, I do not know why, is it because SC network in Italy is still not fully developed therefore not always enroute, is it because we drive a bit slower to manage range, which is getting to the limit or, a combination of these?

All in all, I have to admit, I’m still going through my EV learning curve and guess will need some more time to get used to it!

Your feedback, therefore, would be very useful to me.

Cheers
 
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I have an MS LR. My full charge was only showing 361. After the last update, my LR now says LR+ and the full charge started showing 393 miles. I notice that my wh/mi had gone down. I was averaging about 275-290 wh/mi (city/hwy combo driving). I am now averaging between 250-260 wh/mi doing the exact same driving as before. The only difference was the software update. I haven't driven over 390 miles yet but my energy consumption seems to be on track to get really close to 390. My wife has a 2019 Raven MX Performance. Her full charge is only 295 although it was advertised at 305. The update did not change her mileage. It seems to have only affected the MS LRs.
 
I have an MS LR. My full charge was only showing 361. After the last update, my LR now says LR+ and the full charge started showing 393 miles. I notice that my wh/mi had gone down. I was averaging about 275-290 wh/mi (city/hwy combo driving). I am now averaging between 250-260 wh/mi doing the exact same driving as before. The only difference was the software update. I haven't driven over 390 miles yet but my energy consumption seems to be on track to get really close to 390. My wife has a 2019 Raven MX Performance. Her full charge is only 295 although it was advertised at 305. The update did not change her mileage. It seems to have only affected the MS LRs.

Hi!

Thank you a lot for your feedback, much appreciated!

This is exactly what I am facing with my MS Raven LR stuck with 360 miles range and, trust me I’m not the only one, even though I’m currently running the latest software available i.e: 2020.24.6.1, I see no mention to possible even future upgrade to Plus, range or charging speed increases. On this last one, to be honest, I still have to see a SC to better check, which I’ll do tomorrow.

When you mention the last update are you referring to the above, which we received a few days ago?

To be clear, I’m not advocating to expect to receive anything more than any other US customer but, at least to be given the same options as already seen/done for same car’s customers in the US.

Unfortunately, as of today, this is still the situation, even after checking with Tesla, who only mentioned that Plus will possibly get in 6-8 months, here in Switzerland or across Europe, to the best of my knowledge.

Therefore, as time goes by, I’m concerned as we are still left with no options at all but, a car which I feel it is “born old” as far as range/efficiency and, it is likely to losing value even at a faster pace as soon as the cheaper Plus will get marketed here too.

We love our car and I’m just disappointed and frustrated for the above that, honestly, doesn’t seems fair at least to me!

Any suggestion aside of “just enjoy you car as is”, is most welcome.

Cheers,
 
Hi!

Thank you a lot for your feedback, much appreciated!

This is exactly what I am facing with my MS Raven LR stuck with 360 miles range and, trust me I’m not the only one, even though I’m currently running the latest software available i.e: 2020.24.6.1, I see no mention to possible even future upgrade to Plus, range or charging speed increases. On this last one, to be honest, I still have to see a SC to better check, which I’ll do tomorrow.

When you mention the last update are you referring to the above, which we received a few days ago?

To be clear, I’m not advocating to expect to receive anything more than any other US customer but, at least to be given the same options as already seen/done for same car’s customers in the US.

Unfortunately, as of today, this is still the situation, even after checking with Tesla, who only mentioned that Plus will possibly get in 6-8 months, here in Switzerland or across Europe, to the best of my knowledge.

Therefore, as time goes by, I’m concerned as we are still left with no options at all but, a car which I feel it is “born old” as far as range/efficiency and, it is likely to losing value even at a faster pace as soon as the cheaper Plus will get marketed here too.

We love our car and I’m just disappointed and frustrated for the above that, honestly, doesn’t seems fair at least to me!

Any suggestion aside of “just enjoy you car as is”, is most welcome.

Cheers,
Yes I am talking about the 2020.24.6.1. I don't know if they just did it for LRs that were made at the beginning of 2020 or what. I sent a service request about my 360 miles of range a couple of weeks earlier and they just blow me off by saying there was nothing wrong with my battery. I asked if it could be a software issue and they didn't respond back.
 
Yes I am talking about the 2020.24.6.1. I don't know if they just did it for LRs that were made at the beginning of 2020 or what. I sent a service request about my 360 miles of range a couple of weeks earlier and they just blow me off by saying there was nothing wrong with my battery. I asked if it could be a software issue and they didn't respond back.

Thank you a lot!

This should suffice to demonstrate that only in NA, some of us, owning the same MS Raven LR, received a significant range increase or was offered Plus upgrade, either for free or as a paid option and, some other did not, especially in Europe, which is what I’m aiming to obtain.

Quoting from April 23rd, 2019 Tesla memo:

“Beginning today, Model S and Model X now come with an all-new drivetrain design that increases each vehicle’s range substantially, achieving a landmark 370 miles and 325 miles on the EPA cycle for Model S and Model X Long Range, respectively. Using the same 100 kWh battery pack, these design and architecture updates will allow drivers to travel farther than ever before, charging less frequently and getting more range out of every dollar spent on charging.”

The Longest-Range Electric Vehicle Now Goes Even Farther

..and furthermore from subsequent June 15th, 2020:

“Starting today, all North American Model S Long Range Plus vehicles have an official EPA-rated range of 402 miles, representing a nearly 20% increase in range when compared to a 2019 Model S 100D with the same battery pack design.”

Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

Unquote

Even not factoring in the latest additional tech. improvement on MS LR Plus, excl. battery, I really do not understand why, as of today, our 10/19 MS Raven LR still disappointingly shows only 360 miles at 100% charge!

Any constructive comment, feedback and/or suggestion aside of “just enjoy your car as is”, is most welcome.

Have a great Sunday!
 
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@BESLA Thankyou a lot for your feedback and supporting info!

Furthermore, you can see also below referenced EM tweets as of February 15th, 2020:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1228540886826418178?s=21

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1228541579679322112?s=21

-> “made in recent months”....as of today, it is still to be seen in Europe!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1228546082172370944?s=21

-> “Depends on when car was built, as there are many small hardware improvements, so most will be somewhere in between 373 & 390”

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1228543533960712193?s=21

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1228543891458023425?s=21

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1228542899798691841?s=21

I do not see any specified geographic limitation and actually specifies a required updated Model S LR denomination to Plus due regulations, as well as wheels and tyres which would be made available to all previously made cars.

I’m personally very disappointed to be left behind and, It would be nice to know how many cars are affected in EU and maybe not only..it shouldn’t be just a few.

Cheers!
 
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Tesla has a policy of continous improvement. They strive to keep making their cars better and price them lower to increase demand so they can build more factories and advance their goal of converting personal transportation (soon business transportation) to clean energy.

Their cars are not "born old" but the always sell you the best car they are producing at the time you place your order. In the background they are working like crazy to make their vehicles even better, less expensive and longer range.

In the OPs case the Raven upgrades have been the most significant. Raven had updated motors, computers, improved FSD capability, advanced adaptible suspensions, improved range, faster charging and premium interiors as standard...at even lower pricing.

This Raven philosophy is not static. It continues to improve, month by month. Even more improvements are on the way, and more on the way after that. Tesla never sleeps on their laurels. They strive to make their cars better every day.

They cannot deliver to their customers "what is coming" but only "what is here". Everyone wants to own "the best Tesla" but that goal is elusive. When you get your new car, you are driving the best one they make. That, however does not last, because the next guy is going to get a car that is perhaps even a little bit better. This is hard on a buyers Ego, but that is just the reality of the continous improvement policy.

Best to not dwell on this perceived slight. Their cars are going to be better and better and cheaper and cheaper long into the future. When compared to legacy ICE cars they will also be getting more valuable as well. Elon's tweet about them becoming an appreciating asset is focused on some day in the future when FSD will allow them to be put into livery fleets where they can earn more money than they cost. Like a medallion on a NYC taxi, the fact that the car is legally allowed to charge fares makes them much more valuable than one outside the taxi fleet.

Currently a Tesla placed into service for Uber/Lyft commercial service is going to be more profitable than a similar price ICE car due to lower costs per mile, considering fuel and maintenance costs. Use of Autopilot can make long hours in livery service easier as the computer can take some of the drudgery out of long hours on the road.

My only solution is to enjoy the car you bought and don't obsess and envy those who will be buying later and even better capable ones. Their day in the Sun, being the "best" is also short lived. Happiness is enjoying what you have, and not coveting what others have that perhaps may be even better.

Quit focusing on your charging rates, range, and constantly checking what is new and better coming out. You have a fantastic Tesla to drive. It is capable of providing great traveling pleasure. You are blessed to own what you have. Better than most any other car on the road...except for the newer Tesla coming out. Not a bad place in the World to be.

Can't imagine how fantastic it would be to be blessed enough to cruise around the fantastic Swiss road ways, touring the Swiss mountain sides and those classic European villages and sights. Don't waste your efforts and joy of what you have on envy for those who have just a little more.
 
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@Uncle Paul: this is also what my wife always tells me..;)

Seriously, thankyou for the time you took to give me such a nice answer. I truly appreciate it.

@Battpower: I know you like Switzerland..;)

I’m truly enjoying both of your support, nice comments and educated hints which help me better understand the way to appreciate my new Tesla and to get along with what I perceive as current product inequalities between NA and EU.

This only to be even more pleased than what I already am of my choice and future prospects.

BTW: I lived in California and I know sun there is abounding, these days some more sun would be nice here in Switzerland too!

Best greetings from rainy Zürich!
 
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Hi @Lorians Could it be that you have a rev "E" battery? Which could be a reason why you won't have the extra range available?

iirc he has rev E.

@Lorians?

Other than speculation, I haven't seen anything technical that states rev F batteries have different characteristics from rev E. May be better cooling (but any need for cooling might imply less efficiency not greater). May be different cell chemistry (hard to find out but no statement from Tesla yet?) And I thought the rated battery capacity remains the same, so efficiency is the area where improvement would potentially increase range.
 
Good morning!

@duncanduncan:

Sorry for my late feedback, yes after checking on the sticker I can confirm my car has a 100kwh - 1086755 - 00 - E battery.

@Battpower: agreed and, in this case, it cannot be that if you get an F you’re lucky, otherwise you’re not!

The reason being that, while investigating the missing range upgrade issue, I have noticed that, as reported here, several MS or MX LR were delivered in NA/EU with an E battery across mid/end 2019 and early 2020 while some others, in the same time frame, with an F battery. You can find this across this forum, this is just one example:

351 Mile Range!

I should add that, there has never been an official mention on E/F battery being the trigger for a range/efficiency upgrade, which would have been more clear. This, I only heard it here, maybe among confused owners like myself, trying to understand the rationale of this issue.

To my understanding, EM and Tesla stated that a number of incremental changes have been implemented during the course of the last months/year and officially stated that the range/efficiency increase has been achieved with the same 2019 100kw battery design.

Furthermore, logically adding, that it is rather linked to “recent/several months manufacturing date” and that most will be somewhere in between 373 & 390 miles.

So, if that holds true, I’m still convinced that this is a bit messy but, personally, I would be just fine to be offered this range/efficiency increase as a free or paid option upgrade (as already done in NA). As of this minute, none of that has occured and still showing 360 miles, best case.

Your view and experience on this is always most wecome!

Enjoy the weekend and..stay healthy!
 
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it cannot be that if you get an F you’re lucky, otherwise you’re not

Unfortunately, this absolutely can be the case. I am not aware that Tesla have ever published spec changes between battery revisions, and they can allude towards all kinds of performance differences without any specific details.

In my mind, if the battery still has the same actual kWh capacity, then maybe they just change the reserve buffer to make a little more available for normal use and to claim the extra range?

We already know that 100kwh does not mean that energy is available. Same for other battery capacities. Different chemistry and cooling could allow faster supercharging and maybe higher current discharge for faster acceleration, but without technical details we can't know if the battery makes more energy available for use, or if it does, is there any other compromise such as possible faster degredation.
 
Unfortunately, this absolutely can be the case. I am not aware that Tesla have ever published spec changes between battery revisions, and they can allude towards all kinds of performance differences without any specific details.

In my mind, if the battery still has the same actual kWh capacity, then maybe they just change the reserve buffer to make a little more available for normal use and to claim the extra range?

We already know that 100kwh does not mean that energy is available. Same for other battery capacities. Different chemistry and cooling could allow faster supercharging and maybe higher current discharge for faster acceleration, but without technical details we can't know if the battery makes more energy available for use, or if it does, is there any other compromise such as possible faster degredation.

That’s right!

@Battpower: agreed and, in this case, it cannot be that if you get an F you’re lucky, otherwise you’re not!

The reason being that, while investigating the missing range upgrade issue, I have noticed that, as reported here, several MS or MX LR were delivered in NA/EU with an E battery across mid/end 2019 and early 2020 while some others, in the same time frame, with an F battery. You can find this across this forum, this is just one example:

351 Mile Range!

I should add that, there has never been an official mention on E/F battery being the trigger for a range/efficiency upgrade, which would have been more clear. This, I only heard it here, maybe among confused owners like myself, trying to understand the rationale of this issue.
 
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I'm afraid too it's connected to rev of battery. When Elon tweeted about the increase in range etc that was the same time when I saw in epc tesla parts catalog that rev "F" was released. Same applies (I think) to increased SC rate of 225 kw now for only the newest rev "G" batteries.
BTW rev "H" is already out according same catalog. Who knows what's next...
 
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I'm afraid too it's connected to rev of battery. When Elon tweeted about the increase in range etc that was the same time when I saw in epc tesla parts catalog that rev "F" was released. Same applies (I think) to increased SC rate of 225 kw now for only the newest rev "G" batteries.
BTW rev "H" is already out according same catalog. Who knows what's next...
Even F type battery rev are showing the same 360 mile ~ 580 kms in the european model S
 
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