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Raven (non Performance) real world range?

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,069
4,697
MA, NH
I am sorry but I am not able to convert Wh/mile to real road miles. Is there a formula to do that? I am not a bunny rabbit when it comes to driving but I usually drive in 60-70 mph range. The highways here in MA have 55 or 65 mph speed limits. The advertised miles for the 2020 Raven is 351 miles. But if people are getting only 250-270 then that is around 100 miles less than advertised range. If I cannot drive to NYC in one charge then this car is of no use to me. Or maybe there are ways to increase its range? Would be great if someone could provide more details. We went from Boston to Six Flags last year (in Agawam) in friends Model 3. But we had to go for the superchargin in Chicopee on our way back. Its about 100 miles one way. I think he was being conservative but still. Since there as no provision to charge while the car was standing in open parking lot (which sucks BTW because that would be so much easier) we had no choice but to go to a Supercharger. All theme parks should have charging stations because the cars stand there all day anyway. So coming back to the topic 250 miles is cutting real close if I go for Skiing and try to come back which I can easily do in our ICEs. So even after spending $80+K if I cannot make it back home, then this whole EV transition sucks and EPA should seriously do something about these Fake 351 miles published EPA range with a star at the corner. Very deceiving for the consumers.

It's not FAKE. It's telling you from full battery to empty in good driving conditions and probably not over 65 mph.

The way supercharging works it's not productive (time wise) to charge to 100% because it tapers off. But you can start off at 100% on the start of your trip (when time is abundant). But it's not healthy to leave it at 100% for very long, so you need to "plan" your schedule. Just like an ICE car gives you "range" you never drive an ICE car until the tank is empty either. If you were driving in the boonies you might lean towards not running your ICE below 25% full either. It depends on where you are and weather on how low you want to go. It's a balance of taking time to plan, like targeting your charge to 100% and exactly where your gonna charge vs just not worrying about it and supercharge for 20 minutes where and when it's convenient (to play it safe, even if you might "make it").

Also keep in mind cold weather (i.e. skiing) will take a bite out of your range too (for heater and lost regen).

Does your friend have an AWD Model 3 or SR? 200 mile trip on AWD Model 3 should be easy. But on an SR it's a little tight.
250 miles, with no planning and quite a bit of safety margin for Model X is probably about right. 300 miles with some planning and good weather. In Winter it's probably more like 200 miles with no planning and 250 with planning. Roughly.
 
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BM3B

“beaver”
Mar 8, 2019
789
948
Los Angeles, CA
Press the car icon, bottom left corner.
Select the DRIVING menu from the left side list.
An On/Off switch for Range Mode is towards the bottom of the menu.
It’s not there. I am on 2020.35.10.1 See attached picture.

Do you have a Raven? Maybe they removed it due to the increased efficiencies.
 

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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,069
4,697
MA, NH
It’s not there. I am on 2020.35.10.1 See attached picture.

Do you have a Raven? Maybe they removed it due to the increased efficiencies.

Interesting, I just checked on my LR (non plus) 2020.36.11 and it is still there on that screen.
It says it just reduces HVAC, but I know it effects battery heating when regen is low, and I like being able to disable that because it's useless on a short commute to spend energy to heat the battery. You can clearly see the battery heater icon on or off depending on this setting.
 
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canbonbon

Member
Nov 12, 2017
92
81
Boston
Be careful and do your homework before spouting claims. Your language is borderline troll.

Its unfortunate you feel that way, I was merely asking questions to make sure it fits my needs. I am in no way trying to troll.


If you are serious then rent a Model X LR+ on Touro and try it yourself.

Yes that is exactly what I plan to do however I currently do not find any 2020 Model X on Touro in my area. I will also be asking Tesla for an extended test drive (paid if required) where I get to take it for a longer distance of about 300 miles. I will definitely post my results either way.
 

BM3B

“beaver”
Mar 8, 2019
789
948
Los Angeles, CA
Its unfortunate you feel that way, I was merely asking questions to make sure it fits my needs. I am in no way trying to troll.




Yes that is exactly what I plan to do however I currently do not find any 2020 Model X on Touro in my area. I will also be asking Tesla for an extended test drive (paid if required) where I get to take it for a longer distance of about 300 miles. I will definitely post my results either way.
Thanks, I didn’t mean to imply that just that the range complaint is a common one from trolls. I am happy you are considering a Tesla! I would happily let you borrow my X LR+ for a test drive if you lived close. Personally I don’t know anyone that was unhappy with Tesla range, the NAV guides you and it’s hard to make mistakes. Maybe rent a model 3 or S with 315-350 mile range and give it a try. You can use A Better Routeplanner to simulate your trip and see when and where to charge. Select X Long Range Plus. Good luck! Let us know any other questions you have.
 
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canbonbon

Member
Nov 12, 2017
92
81
Boston
You will not be able to do a round trip (Boston to NYC and back to Boston) without stopping at a super chargers (actually 3 stops). A quick round trip check of a route planner (with a 2020 Model X, at typical highway speeds, 1 passenger, starting at 100% charge) would take 8hrs 11minutes, with 3 supercharge stops:
  • A 21 minute stop at a supercharger at Meriden, CT on the way to NYC.
  • You would have to supercharge for 24 minutes while in New York.
  • A 42 minutes supercharge in CT on the way back to Boston.
You would be back in Boston with 10% battery remaining.
I think you misunderstood. If you read again, all I am saying is I am trying to see if I can just reach NYC from Boston in one charge (not come back).
 

AdamMacDon

Member
May 8, 2019
727
534
Victoria BC
I am sorry but I am not able to convert Wh/mile to real road miles. Is there a formula to do that? I am not a bunny rabbit when it comes to driving but I usually drive in 60-70 mph range. The highways here in MA have 55 or 65 mph speed limits. The advertised miles for the 2020 Raven is 351 miles. But if people are getting only 250-270 then that is around 100 miles less than advertised range. If I cannot drive to NYC in one charge then this car is of no use to me. Or maybe there are ways to increase its range? Would be great if someone could provide more details. We went from Boston to Six Flags last year (in Agawam) in friends Model 3. But we had to go for the superchargin in Chicopee on our way back. Its about 100 miles one way. I think he was being conservative but still. Since there as no provision to charge while the car was standing in open parking lot (which sucks BTW because that would be so much easier) we had no choice but to go to a Supercharger. All theme parks should have charging stations because the cars stand there all day anyway. So coming back to the topic 250 miles is cutting real close if I go for Skiing and try to come back which I can easily do in our ICEs. So even after spending $80+K if I cannot make it back home, then this whole EV transition sucks and EPA should seriously do something about these Fake 351 miles published EPA range with a star at the corner. Very deceiving for the consumers.
And fuel economy ratings for ICE are realistic? Even when I don't drive with a lead foot I never get advertised fuel economy in my gas cars. I would be lucky to get 85% of the range in a gas car. Turn on AC, or exceed the speed limit even slightly and you aren't getting EPA fuel econ in pretty much any car. EPA ratings are always unrealistically optimistic, it's just common sense marketing. The real problem with EV's is a lack of good charging infrastructure. Here in Canada we see lots of level 2 chargers coming to parking lots, which is great for a nice top up while you spend a few hours at your destination.
 
Last edited:

FatherTo1

Member
Mar 7, 2019
820
710
California
And fuel economy ratings for ICE are realistic? Even when I don't drive with a lead foot I never get advertised fuel economy in my gas cars. I would be lucky to get 85% of the range in a gas car. Turn on AC, or exceed the speed limit even slightly and you aren't getting EPA fuel econ in pretty much any car. EPA ratings are always unrealistically optimistic, it's just common sense marketing. The real problem with EV's is a lack of good charging infrastructure. Here in Canada we see lots of level 2 chargers coming to parking lots, which is great for a nice top up while you spend a few hours at your destination.

I still hit the EPA estimates on my previous ICE cars, ranging from 4-, 6-, and 8-cylinders. However, in the 1990s I used to easy exceed EPA estimates in my Honda Accord. Rated for 30 or 31 MPG but I would get 34 MPG without even trying. With our Model S (hoping to go to an X) I can exceed EPA rating around town and a little less on the highway.
 

khattak

Member
Mar 7, 2019
22
8
ct
I am sorry but I am not able to convert Wh/mile to real road miles. Is there a formula to do that? I am not a bunny rabbit when it comes to driving but I usually drive in 60-70 mph range. The highways here in MA have 55 or 65 mph speed limits. The advertised miles for the 2020 Raven is 351 miles. But if people are getting only 250-270 then that is around 100 miles less than advertised range. If I cannot drive to NYC in one charge then this car is of no use to me. Or maybe there are ways to increase its range? Would be great if someone could provide more details. We went from Boston to Six Flags last year (in Agawam) in friends Model 3. But we had to go for the superchargin in Chicopee on our way back. Its about 100 miles one way. I think he was being conservative but still. Since there as no provision to charge while the car was standing in open parking lot (which sucks BTW because that would be so much easier) we had no choice but to go to a Supercharger. All theme parks should have charging stations because the cars stand there all day anyway. So coming back to the topic 250 miles is cutting real close if I go for Skiing and try to come back which I can easily do in our ICEs. So even after spending $80+K if I cannot make it back home, then this whole EV transition sucks and EPA should seriously do something about these Fake 351 miles published EPA range with a star at the corner. Very deceiving for the consumers.

Totally agree with the OP.

Incredulous how insecure most Tesla owners here are. The OP asked a very simple and fair question. What range do people get in real life for their MX LR+'s . There isn't one straight answer here. The OP is also right to question how you really get 351 and what it really means and whether there should be stricter standards around these practices.

My wife's 16 MX 90D never accomplished more than 220 miles in near-perfect weather conditions 68-70F on 20 slipstreams - when it was new and never did beyond 200 after the first year. In Winters even driving at 65 between CT and NYC it barely gets to 160.

How do you transpose this to real life? Well, we would visit friends in Lewisburg (220-mile trip one way ) once a month and it would take us around 3h30 mins to get there in our ICE car. With the 90D not doing beyond 195-200 miles. We'd need to stop once - no big deal? Well, the 15 min supercharging stops aren't really a thing. Usually, it takes you around 10-15 mins to get off the highway to get to the SC.

Once you are plugged in - well what are you going to do charge for 15 mins and leave? no its at least a 30 min affair and then back onto the highway etc. So really our 3 and half hour drives became 5 hours each way to the point that we stopped making them. Now I know there are many here who would have their sermons ready around "you need to change your lifestyle etc" - The fact is that Tesla Range Estimate are highly inaccurate. The problem gets integrated for even longer drives. Like our drives to Washington DC would take 2 extra hours.

In addition to my wife's MX - I have a 2019 MS 100D ( pre raven 335 miles of range). Have never gotten beyond 308 in real-world conditions. Around 275-285 on the Arachnids. The S has enabled us to take longer trips again.

WHICH is why I stumbled on this thread - We are planning on trading in our MX 90D for an LR+ preferably with the 22inch wheels. So if someone has a straight non-idiotic answer on really what these cars do in the real-world in cold and hot weather. It would greatly benefit people myself, The OP, and many others. As long as they do 310+ it would be worth it for us.
 
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msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
373
504
California
Totally agree with the OP.

Incredulous how insecure most Tesla owners here are. The OP asked a very simple and fair question. What range do people get in real life for their MX LR+'s . There isn't one straight answer here. The OP is also right to question how you really get 351 and what it really means and whether there should be stricter standards around these practices.

My wife's 16 MX 90D never accomplished more than 220 miles in near-perfect weather conditions 68-70F on 20 slipstreams - when it was new and never did beyond 200 after the first year. In Winters even driving at 65 between CT and NYC it barely gets to 160.

How do you transpose this to real life? Well, we would visit friends in Lewisburg (220-mile trip one way ) once a month and it would take us around 3h30 mins to get there in our ICE car. With the 90D not doing beyond 195-200 miles. We'd need to stop once - no big deal? Well, the 15 min supercharging stops aren't really a thing. Usually, it takes you around 10-15 mins to get off the highway to get to the SC.

Once you are plugged in - well what are you going to do charge for 15 mins and leave? no its at least a 30 min affair and then back onto the highway etc. So really our 3 and half hour drives became 5 hours each way to the point that we stopped making them. Now I know there are many here who would have their sermons ready around "you need to change your lifestyle etc" - The fact is that Tesla Range Estimate are highly inaccurate. The problem gets integrated for even longer drives. Like our drives to Washington DC would take 2 extra hours.

In addition to my wife's MX - I have a 2019 MS 100D ( pre raven 335 miles of range). Have never gotten beyond 308 in real-world conditions. Around 275-285 on the Arachnids. The S has enabled us to take longer trips again.

WHICH is why I stumbled on this thread - We are planning on trading in our MX 90D for an LR+ preferably with the 22inch wheels. So if someone has a straight non-idiotic answer on really what these cars do in the real-world in cold and hot weather. It would greatly benefit people myself, The OP, and many others. As long as they do 310+ it would be worth it for us.

So I have the MX LR+. Full charge @350 miles. Everything I have read is the 22" wheels will reduce your range by @ 10-15%. So you should not get those. My last trip went @200 miles and used @240 miles of "range". So 20% off. If true then starting at 350 miles will get you @280 miles. but then of course you are going to charge when it gets down to around 50 miles. Thus true range @230 miles. However, I would disagree with your charging analysis - at least in CA. Many superchargers right off the freeway. And good news is charging is now faster. Mine will actually hit a peak of 200kW so a stop of 15 minutes will easily add 100+ miles. Last month I did a 500 mile trip to SoCal. My take away is to be great, Tesla needs an "advertised" range of over 420 miles in the MX and faster charging. 200kW would be great if it was more sustained. At that rate you are adding 724 mi/hr. - 15 minutes would give you 180 miles. Once they get to those specs range will be a non issue - 99% of the time.
 

P85_DA

Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,171
2,881
CA
planning on trading in our MX 90D for an LR+ preferably with the 22inch wheels. So

I don’t have raven X ..I probably have the worst X for range P with 22s ....I wouldn’t go with 22s if u want the range .....
 

FatherTo1

Member
Mar 7, 2019
820
710
California
Based on our Raven S experience, going from 21" to 19" immediately improved range by 12.5%. I have been considering moving to a Raven X LR+ now that rated range is 351, but I would stick with the 20" wheel option to reap the most range.

I think the above quoted 20-25% reduction in overall range with 22s is reasonable, and 10-15% overall range loss with 20s.
 
Last edited:

eccl1213

Member
Mar 31, 2020
38
29
usa
If it helps, I'm sitting in a hotel room while my 2020 X LR (not a plus) is changing after a decent length trip.

Left the house with 100% charge. Drive mode set on chill, range mode enabled and height on low. 20" wheels.

Battery read 329 at full. I drove 147 miles and my battery showed 132 miles left when I ended.

So that was a loss of 188 miles for 147 miles of driving. 90% percent of that driving was highway at 72mph.

What's that... 78% of the rated range? So 256 miles of 70+ driving if you run it to empty.
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,327
602
DFW
Thanks, I didn’t mean to imply that just that the range complaint is a common one from trolls. I am happy you are considering a Tesla! I would happily let you borrow my X LR+ for a test drive if you lived close. Personally I don’t know anyone that was unhappy with Tesla range, the NAV guides you and it’s hard to make mistakes. Maybe rent a model 3 or S with 315-350 mile range and give it a try. You can use A Better Routeplanner to simulate your trip and see when and where to charge. Select X Long Range Plus. Good luck! Let us know any other questions you have.
Model S/3 =/= Model X.
 

gangzoom

Active Member
May 22, 2014
1,286
1,090
Uk
What's that... 78% of the rated range? So 256 miles of 70+ driving if you run it to empty.

So the Raven X is no more efficient at 70mph than our 2017 75D X??

At 70mph as measured by distance travelled our 75D X will return 3 miles per kWh. I thought a Raven should better that easily, but your figures suggests less than 3 miles per kWh if assuming 90kWh usable??

42801048185_19f013c331_c_d.jpg
 
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ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,327
602
DFW
So the Raven X is no more efficient at 70mph than our 2017 75D X??

At 70mph as measured by distance travelled our 75D X will return 3 miles per kWh. I thought a Raven should better that easily, but your figures suggests less than 3 miles per kWh if assuming 90kWh usable??

42801048185_19f013c331_c_d.jpg
It’s highly dependent on exterior conditions. I’d say raven is about 10% more efficient at nominal speeds but where it really shines is at higher speeds.
 

verygreen

Curious member
Jan 16, 2017
2,943
11,390
TN
It’s highly dependent on exterior conditions. I’d say raven is about 10% more efficient at nominal speeds but where it really shines is at higher speeds.
my experience is opposite. at high speeds (90mph) you can barely tell the difference with old cars. but at 40-80 raven is much superior.
Also older cars are much superior with initial acceleration from stop somehow, a lot more oomph.
 
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canbonbon

Member
Nov 12, 2017
92
81
Boston
If it helps, I'm sitting in a hotel room while my 2020 X LR (not a plus) is changing after a decent length trip.

Left the house with 100% charge. Drive mode set on chill, range mode enabled and height on low. 20" wheels.

Battery read 329 at full. I drove 147 miles and my battery showed 132 miles left when I ended.

So that was a loss of 188 miles for 147 miles of driving. 90% percent of that driving was highway at 72mph.

What's that... 78% of the rated range? So 256 miles of 70+ driving if you run it to empty.

Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for. So bottom line is 256+- miles on a full charge when you have mostly highway driving on Raven X 2020 LR. Which is about 100 miles less than advertised range but I get it. I might even take another 10-15% out if I need to travel in winters for skiing. So I guess if I buy it, I would have to very carefully plan the Ski trips or stay there overnight. But as number of superchargers and/or destination chargers increase, this would become less of an issue in future.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,281
13,950
West Vancouver, British Columbia
So even after spending $80+K if I cannot make it back home, then this whole EV transition sucks and EPA should seriously do something about these Fake 351 miles published EPA range with a star at the corner. Very deceiving for the consumers.
If you drive an X like the EPA test cycle, you will get the EPA range. It’s the same for gas cars; few people get the EPA rated MPG figure.

With an EV like a Tesla you have precise energy usage data that gas cars do not provide so that makes Tesla drivers more sensitive to the difference between their real world range and what the EPA arrived at.

Your agitation is unwarranted and unhelpful.

Since there as no provision to charge while the car was standing in open parking lot (which sucks BTW because that would be so much easier) we had no choice but to go to a Supercharger. All theme parks should have charging stations because the cars stand there all day anyway
You are complaining that a destination you drove to did not have charging available? Did you check that in advance of driving there? Sure it would be nice if there was EV charging in every parking lot in America but that’s not the reality. Nor are there gas pumps in every parking lot...
 

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