Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Raven -> Refresh. Worth the upgrade?

I'm really wrestling with whether I should upgrade with my FSD Raven LR S to a refreshed LR S without FSD.

Can anyone that's done a similar upgrade chime in?

In particular, I'm looking for feedback/input on:

  1. Acceleration - 3.8 to 3.1. Is it actually noticeable, or does the size betray the sensation of speed? My LR + Boost Y "feels" faster than my S, even though the S is technically faster.
  2. Noise - Pretty surprised at how loud the Raven is at highway speeds, even with upgraded Grand Touring tires. How does the isolation/NVH work out on the fresh?
  3. Luxury Feel - is the fit/finish and quality of materials notably better?
  4. Handling - The S has always been known to handle like a boat, especially compared to the 3 (and even Y, imo). Has the handling improved at all?
  5. Ventilated seats - Actually noticeable, or just a whiff of air?
 
Last edited:

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,294
7,806
MA, NH
I just upgraded from Raven X (2019) with FSD to Refresh LR S with FSD

I'm on the fence if I made the right move. I'll know better in a few months.

My X had a few issues

1) It had the Vibration issue. Tolerable if kept on low and chill.
2) Because of #1 all 8 tires are prematurely wearing on the inside.
3) Because of #1 & #2 I'd have to add camber adjustments to stop tire wearing uneven.
4) Cosmetic damage to one headlight, my fault, $1200 for the part.
5) Cosmetic damage to fender small scratch.
6) No updates for "Legacy X" (or S) (already slipping on a couple modest features).
7) No Remote close windows.

Simple to just trade for a Model S Refresh and all the problems go away (Great trade value).
Only cost $12K (including tax and FSD out of pocket)

Model S Refresh issues

1) They repainted left rear fender and left off PPF (really gets under my skin)
2) Still prone to Vibration issue (no issue knock on wood yet).
3) Rides a bit bouncy vs Model X.
4) Not as quiet as Model X.
5) Not as plush feeling as the Raven X.
6) Plan to never take it out of Chill or Ever Launch due to #2
7) Came with Summer tires. All Season OEM tires are rated worse. Best rated tires Mich AS4 howl.
8) Frustrating you have to wait 4-6 weeks for first OTA update (that has ANC).
9) Most say ANC has little effect.
10) Removed Radar (which may eventually be unsupported on all HW3.0 AP cars).
11) Seats are firmer (my guess is due to being ventilated)
12) Been running height on Medium to reduce #3 but that risks #2
13) Need to DIY for a tow hitch (expected)
14) Lost free super charging (expected)
15) Disappointed it came with the same factory scum on windshield (See thread I created on that)
16) I really think Portrait was the correct orientation. Made interior more "integrated" and more functional.
17) Yoke and Stalks. Not terrible but still think Raven was ideal (expected)
18) Missing customize instrument cluster (assuming that will come eventually).
19) Expected Audio system to beat X, I don't think it does.
20) No Extended warranty allowed. I had it on the X. Not huge deal because I never seem to keep cars long enough these days. (See #5 below)
21) No Soft closing doors, miss it more than I expected (expected)

Model S positives

1) Looks really sharp
2) Range is great.
3) Handles better than X
4) Hoping with ANC, maybe when summer tires warm up or alternative tires it Matches or beats X on road noise
5) Will get latest updates. (cars are now the latest iPhone, just gotta have it).
6) Blasting fast, they say anyway, afraid to push it or I'll pay for it.
7) Hard to find accessories like MaxPider mats, SunShade (OEM does not exist) and Mudflaps (OEM ones are joke).
8) Efficiency is great, but not as great as I was expecting. I always beat EPA in ideal weather in both X and 3, I'm currently not. Could be Summer tires I didn't want.
9) They did fix Audio bug of Volume bouncing high after a call finishes.
10) MCU is blazing fast
11) Matrix headlights. Don't see a huge improvement yet. But I expect it will get better.
12) No FWD to deal with. I was always paranoid someone was gonna get hit on the head (including me). I liked them, but they were risky for problems (I never had any), they were often fussy (not opening to what it should).

Keep in mind that a lot of folks are NOT upgraded from a Raven. Many are coming from 3's, Y's, Pre-Raven or Non-Tesla. The bulk of the positive comments you read would apply to a Raven as well.

I had a flaw in my Raven Model X when I received it. Causing LOTs of road noise. I fixed in myself. I'm hoping to find a little mistakes or slight modes that might improve the Model S. I was really expecting it to be better. If I had test driven one I might not have traded. I'm not sure.

No way in hell I'd buy an X right now. Too many ramp up issues and they have not finished Refresh 2.0 yet. Also very disappointing range.
If I'm not head over heals with the S in 2 years and X brings range up significantly (and I assume the current issues are resolved) I might trade back to an X.
 
Last edited:
I just upgraded from Raven X (2019) with FSD to Refresh LR S with FSD

I'm on the fence if I made the right move. I'll know better in a few months.

My X had a few issues

1) It had the Vibration issue. Tolerable if kept on low and chill.
2) Because of #1 all 8 tires are prematurely wearing on the inside.
3) Because of #1 & #2 I'd have to add camber adjustments to stop tire wearing uneven.
4) Cosmetic damage to one headlight, my fault, $1200 for the part.
5) Cosmetic damage to fender small scratch.
6) No updates for "Legacy X" (or S) (already slipping on a couple modest features).
7) No Remote close windows.

Simple to just trade for a Model S Refresh and all the problems go away (Great trade value).
Only cost $12K (including tax and FSD out of pocket)

Model S Refresh issues

1) They repainted left rear fender and left off PPF (really gets under my skin)
2) Still prone to Vibration issue (no issue knock on wood yet).
3) Rides a bit bouncy vs Model X.
4) Not as quiet as Model X.
5) Not as plush feeling as the Raven X.
6) Plan to never take it out of Chill or Ever Launch due to #2
7) Came with Summer tires. All Season OEM tires are rated worse. Best rated tires Mich AS4 howl.
8) Frustrating you have to wait 4-6 weeks for first OTA update (that has ANC).
9) Most say ANC has little effect.
10) Removed Radar (which may eventually be unsupported on all HW3.0 AP cars).
11) Seats are firmer (my guess is due to being ventilated)
12) Been running height on Medium to reduce #3 but that risks #2
13) Need to DIY for a tow hitch (expected)
14) Lost free super charging (expected)
15) Disappointed it came with the same factory scum on windshield (See thread I created on that)
16) I really think Portrait was the correct orientation. Make interior more "integrated" and more functional.
17) Yoke and Stalks. Not terrible but still think Raven was ideal (expected)
18) Missing customize instrument cluster (assuming that will come eventually).
19) Expected Audio system to beat X, I don't think it does.
20) No Extended warranty allowed. I had it on the X. Not huge deal because I never seem to keep cars long enough these days. (See #5 below)

Model S positives

1) Looks really sharp
2) Range is great.
3) Handles better than X
4) Hoping with ANC, maybe when summer tires warm up or alternative tires it Matches or beats X on road noise
5) Will get latest updates. (cars are now the latest iPhone, just gotta have it).
6) Blasting fast, they say anyway, afraid to push it or I'll pay for it.
7) Hard to find accessories like MaxPider mats, SunShade (OEM does not exist) and Mudflaps (OEM ones are joke).
8) Efficiency is great, but not as great as I was expecting. I always beat EPA in ideal weather in both X and 3, I'm currently not. Could be Summer tires I didn't want.
9) They did fix Audio bug of Volume bouncing high after a call finishes.
10) MCU is blazing fast
11) Matrix headlights. Don't see a huge improvement yet. But I expect it will get better.

Keep in mind that a lot of folks are NOT upgraded from a Raven. Many are coming from 3's, Y's and Pre-Raven. The bulk of the positive comments would apply to a Raven.

I had a flaw in my Raven Model X when I received it. Causing LOTs of road noise. I fixed in myself. I'm hoping to find a little mistakes or slight modes that might improve the Model S. I was really expecting it to be better. If I had test driven one I might not have traded. I'm not sure.

No way in hell I'd buy an X right now. Too many ramp up issues and they have not finished Refresh 2.0 yet. Also very disappointing range.
If I'm not head over heals with the S in 2 years and X brings range up significantly (and I assume the current issues are resolved) I might trade back to an X.
Thank you, this is super helpful to know.

Where did you trade in your X?

Tesla's giving me a couple grand more than Carmax, Carvana, and Porsche - probably because Tesla gives credit for FSD while the others don't.
 
We had a 2019 Model S Raven before our 2021 refresh S. The 2019 had 69K miles and was a really solid car.

regarding your questions.

- The raven was fast/quick - the new one is uncomfortably fast. I can’t imagine the Plaid.

- The raven was pretty good on noise but I still had high hopes for the noise cancelation but so far it is a very minor improvement. I would say overall the new one might be a bit quieter but not significantly. There are a few rattles I need to diagnose and have fixed.

- I do think the interior materials are much nicer. I especially appreciate the center console (usable space and cup holders and nice soft material to rest elbow on while driving. Also the door interior is so much better. I no longer have to worry about scratching the chrome trim with my wedding band.

- the handling is better in my opinion but at least with my car, the ride quality took a step backward. Even on comfort setting it is much stiffer transferring road cracks and bumps into the passengers at lower speeds around town. When @ higher speeds it seems to do well.

- I’ve never had ventilated seats before so can’t tell how they compare but I would say it is more a wiff of air. You can feel it but it doesn’t make a huge difference in comfort (at least when wearing shorts and a thin shirt). It may make more difference when there is more fabric between the holes in the seats and your skin.

Overall I like the new car especially since we got it @ the $80K price not the $100K price.
 
We had a 2019 Model S Raven before our 2021 refresh S. The 2019 had 69K miles and was a really solid car.

regarding your questions.

- The raven was fast/quick - the new one is uncomfortably fast. I can’t imagine the Plaid.

- The raven was pretty good on noise but I still had high hopes for the noise cancelation but so far it is a very minor improvement. I would say overall the new one might be a bit quieter but not significantly. There are a few rattles I need to diagnose and have fixed.

- I do think the interior materials are much nicer. I especially appreciate the center console (usable space and cup holders and nice soft material to rest elbow on while driving. Also the door interior is so much better. I no longer have to worry about scratching the chrome trim with my wedding band.

- the handling is better in my opinion but at least with my car, the ride quality took a step backward. Even on comfort setting it is much stiffer transferring road cracks and bumps into the passengers at lower speeds around town. When @ higher speeds it seems to do well.

- I’ve never had ventilated seats before so can’t tell how they compare but I would say it is more a wiff of air. You can feel it but it doesn’t make a huge difference in comfort (at least when wearing shorts and a thin shirt). It may make more difference when there is more fabric between the holes in the seats and your skin.

Overall I like the new car especially since we got it @ the $80K price not the $100K price.
I'm really curious if the ventilated seats are newer/different then the previous ones. I have ventilated seats on my 2017 S75, and I agree its more like a "whiff of air", however, I for sure notice (and appreciate) them. Whenever I drive a loaner or my wife's Y my back and bum get noticeably warmer.

In 2019, Tesla patented some new, fancy, cooled/heated seats that use a gel pack or something. It sounds like they were not used in the new palladium platform...
 
I have ventilated seats on my 2017 S75

I have a 2017 February built Model S with the Gen1 ventilated seats like yours. My wife drives a Raven Model X Performance with the Gen2 ventilated seats. Model S and X Palladiums have the Gen3 ventilated seats.

Unfortunately, my derrière must not be as sensitive as yours, since I can't notice any ventilation going on with my S seats. I can hear the fan running, but my butt doesn't notice any difference. On the other hand, I do feel a very, and I highlight the very part here, small "whiff of air" when seating on my wife's Model X ventilated seats, so there were some minimal improvements between Gen1 and Gen2 seats, (aside from the fact that Gen1's are real leather and Gen2's are faux leather with no perforations on the side bolsters).

I'm really curious if the ventilated seats are newer/different then the previous ones.

Funny that you ask @brico84, 2 weeks ago, I took my Model S to my local Service Center to get the frunk latch recall checked, and they were prepping a Model S Plaid for delivery, so I asked the Service Advisor if I could quickly check out the new ventilated seats on the Plaid. He said, "sure, go ahead", so I took a seat on the driver's seat and turned the ventilation on. The first thing I noticed was that, unlike Gen1 and Gen2 seats, these Gen3 seats actually blow air instead of suck air like their predecessors, so a noticeable difference right there! Aside from that, I found them much quieter than my seats and my wife's X's seats, but not quite the ventilation power I was expecting :rolleyes:.

I had a Plaid reservation, which I canceled and turned into a Taycan GTS reservation (talk about long wait times for delivery 😢), and I remember that the Taycan Turbo S I drove on my test drive had ventilated seats, which blew my mind... <-- actual graphic description on the power of the Taycan's ventilated seats, which perfectly coincided with the ventilated seats in the Macan my wife and I had before our Raven X.

Just my 2¢ on ventilated seats... 😬
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fetar30310
It all depends out your priorities.

My Raven is a 2020 MS LR+. I prefer the main screen embedded in the dash. The only benefit for a horizontal screen is for when you're not driving, so that's not an issue for me. I love having a steering *wheel* and controls on the stalk. I don't need any more acceleration.

I've never driven a Plaid. The stance is slightly more aggressive. I like the blacked out trim. The ventilated seats sound nice, but they'd only be used a few times per year here in San Diego. I'd like to have programmable light show, so hopefully I can upgrade my lights someday.

I'm happy with my Raven, so no Refresh for me.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top