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Reaching the Magic $25,000 Price Point, Who First?

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
I received my model 3 refund back within a few business days. I did it via ACH transfer. I have heard other refund methods take much longer.

I’m sure many are speculators and that’s why I said “even if 50% cancel”. Ford F-150 Lightning also has a $100 fee but just a fraction of the reservations (160k as of this month).

No one has hyped their product like Tesla. I'm sure the look of the truck appeals to some people, but I think the mainstream thinks it is ugly as a dog's behind. So Tesla gets tons of preorders and much like the model 3 the preorders don't dominate the production once they start shipping. I recall they were only a few months into having raised production quantity on the model 3 in 2018 I think and they abruptly had cars sitting in the lots without buyers waiting for them. So the number of $100 preorders is not much of an indicator of deliveries going forward. When are they supposed to actually be in volume production of the truck anyway? I mostly ignore such matters these days since most of what you hear is just hot air.
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
3,352
11,061
MI
No one has hyped their product like Tesla. I'm sure the look of the truck appeals to some people, but I think the mainstream thinks it is ugly as a dog's behind. So Tesla gets tons of preorders and much like the model 3 the preorders don't dominate the production once they start shipping. I recall they were only a few months into having raised production quantity on the model 3 in 2018 I think and they abruptly had cars sitting in the lots without buyers waiting for them. So the number of $100 preorders is not much of an indicator of deliveries going forward. When are they supposed to actually be in volume production of the truck anyway? I mostly ignore such matters these days since most of what you hear is just hot air.
And ford hasn't hyped theirs? Please.




Don’t worry. Ford will sell every one they make.

As far as the model 3 sitting on lots, maybe you are referring to this article.


Staging area or cancellations? I guess you can go the “cancellation” route if you want. But they ended up all selling and then some.
 
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gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
As far as the model 3 sitting on lots, maybe you are referring to this article.


Staging area or cancellations? I guess you can go the “cancellation” route if you want. But they ended up all selling and then some.

I'm talking about sitting at dealer's lots. When I bought my X they were just starting to ship the 3's in any volume and you could not even test drive one. Within a very few months the production volumes rose and they had units sitting on the lot they would sell you if you wanted that color, etc. This was in 2018 when the model 3 preorders were supposed to take years to work off. I believe they started the policy that you could postpone your delivery once and if you didn't reschedule you lost your place in line.
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
3,352
11,061
MI
I'm talking about sitting at dealer's lots. When I bought my X they were just starting to ship the 3's in any volume and you could not even test drive one. Within a very few months the production volumes rose and they had units sitting on the lot they would sell you if you wanted that color, etc. This was in 2018 when the model 3 preorders were supposed to take years to work off. I believe they started the policy that you could postpone your delivery once and if you didn't reschedule you lost your place in line.
And with the new model S, many new orders were getting their cars way before reservation holders. MANY posts about this. Tesla doesn’t always prioritize reservation holders. Especially if the cars were located in different parts of the country.

Cybertruck may be a complete flop. It may not. Time will tell.
 

Unclepaul

Member
Jan 15, 2020
270
395
SoCal
Imagine the elusive $25,000 net cost Tesla can easily be achieved with a compact sized car, built essentially with front and rear castings joined together by an integrated 4680 60 kWh battery. The smaller and lighter car will still get great range and acceptable performance. Net cost will be after all Federal/State/Utility rebates.
These will become fantastic money generators, put into Livery, Cab and Uber service.
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
And with the new model S, many new orders were getting their cars way before reservation holders. MANY posts about this. Tesla doesn’t always prioritize reservation holders. Especially if the cars were located in different parts of the country.

Cybertruck may be a complete flop. It may not. Time will tell.

It may not be a "complete" flop. I just think the US automakers have been having fantastic success selling trucks to the US and I don't think that will change with EV trucks.

I feel a bit honored. A pickup tried to roll coal on me the other day. It was in traffic and he was not nimble about it. I captured the video but haven't downloaded it yet.

Yup, Amurican pickups are here to stay!
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
Imagine the elusive $25,000 net cost Tesla can easily be achieved with a compact sized car, built essentially with front and rear castings joined together by an integrated 4680 60 kWh battery. The smaller and lighter car will still get great range and acceptable performance. Net cost will be after all Federal/State/Utility rebates.
These will become fantastic money generators, put into Livery, Cab and Uber service.

I don't know what people are expecting from the 4680 cells. They may be cheaper than current cells for a given kWh capacity, but it's not a revolution, more of an incremental improvement. Same with the castings and structural batteries. This won't provide a $25,000 car. A $35,000 EV perhaps. Tesla never really did make that elusive price point without losing money on each one they sold. In fact I think the cheapest car Tesla sells is over $40,000 now that they decided to take advantage of the chip shortage situation and raise prices. Anyone know the minimum Tesla car price?
 

ArchEtech

Member
Nov 22, 2021
133
77
Iowa
With inflation I’ll be surprised if there is ever a good EV option for $25,000, certainly not worth n the near future. For 35-40 the GM EVs seem to be way behind Tesla so how do you get another $10,000 of that?

I suppose maybe you could have an EV with the technology and features of the base of the base model ICE econobox, no big touch screens and autopilot.
 
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Not sure I accept the OP premise - that it’s a Big deal. With the stated inflation it may be that no new car is less than $25k soon. EV will continue to be greater than or equal cost to manufacture for quite a while. We now see used sub $25k EV's that are selling like hotcakes - even old Leafs Road trips are not so bad with 250mi range since we have this magic software that plans routes with optimal charges so you don't waste time at stops. That might be difficult for someone with an X100 to understand :)

Btw, I keep getting car ads in the inbox, one for a $45k used Camry, which makes me feel really good about my $43k new Tesla purchase few years ago that also got me the full tax benefit. Maybe 45 is the new 25.
 
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well heck. Nissan reduced 2022 pricing to $27.4k for the 150 mile car and$ 32.4k for the 220 mile car, before the dealer crap and the tax break. That works out to right at $25 (ok list) for the longer range. Its not a Tesla and it has likely battery issues, but it's available. We had a Leaf and it was a great test EV before the M3 finally arrived. Give them their due.
 
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daktari

Active Member
Jan 21, 2017
1,030
1,215
Norway
My guess is a European or Chinese brand. All of the cars below are already pretty close. A next gen of these, with a bit cheaper and higher density battery will be there.

Cupra Born 58 (Spain) from MEB-platform starts at $33.000,- here, wltp 424 which is achievable in summer.

MG ZS EV (chinese) at same price, wltp 440 km.

Xpeng G3 and MG MarvelR (chinese) a bit more expensive.

Renault Megane e-tech (french) is brand new, wltp 450 km, prices probably landing at same as the Cupra.

Citroën e-C4 undercuts on price to apprx $30 000 but has a wltp of 220 miles. Sister models Opel Mokka-e, Corsa-e, Peugeot 208-e and 2008-e all with the same prices and range.

ID.3 is a tad bit pricier than the ones above.

Forgot the Hyindai Kona and the Leaf 64, both both are a bit more expensive.

SR Model 3 priced at aprx $43.000 here, wltp 490 km.

BYD only has one big SUV for sale at double the price at the moment.
 
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gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
With inflation I’ll be surprised if there is ever a good EV option for $25,000, certainly not worth n the near future. For 35-40 the GM EVs seem to be way behind Tesla so how do you get another $10,000 of that?

I suppose maybe you could have an EV with the technology and features of the base of the base model ICE econobox, no big touch screens and autopilot.

The touch screen doesn't add much to the manufacturing price of the car. Even the autopilot doesn't add much to the manufacturing price. But it adds to the selling price because it's a desirable item. But all of that is fluff in the context of a $25,000 EV. The masses don't care about autopilot that you have to drive. If they ever reach an robo-taxi level of full self driving, that will be a real feature to have... or rent. Seems other companies are taking a que from Tesla and starting subscription services for things that used to be bought with the car. Toyota is going to charge monthly to let you remote start their cars... retroactively for the last couple of model years too! Take that Tesla.
 

ArchEtech

Member
Nov 22, 2021
133
77
Iowa
If you take the base model 3, how do you remove $10,000 or more to get a $25,000 version? How do other manufacturers get down to that price point?

Will it take that next cheaper battery technology? I’m actually curious because there is no way that we get to even 50% of the fleet as EV when entry level Models aren’t cheap and don’t always even have great range. A Tesla model 2, or some kind of compact hatch car with 150-200 mile range for $25,000 would be a game changer for sure, I just can’t imagine based on inflation, and all the other craziness, how that can happen.

For sure the littke iPad isn’t super expensive probably to add in a car, fewer buttons, parts, pieces, switches even might be a net savings. They already paid for the software development with they other models, so assuming it stays similar for the “cheap”model, they wouldn’t have to roll in as much developer costs. What do they strip out though?
 
For sure the littke iPad isn’t super expensive probably to add in a car, fewer buttons, parts, pieces, switches even might be a net savings. They already paid for the software development with they other models, so assuming it stays similar for the “cheap”model, they wouldn’t have to roll in as much developer costs. What do they strip out though?
Cut out 1/3 the battery 1/2 the motor,1/4 the suspension, 1/5 the body metal, the frunk, and the glass roof.

You would have s … base leaf, but cooler.

But no one would buy it.
 
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meomyo

Member
Nov 30, 2017
758
345
colorado

if this was at that pricepoint it would be amazing...even at 30k...but 50k....for hyundai? pass
it looks better then the leaf for sure.
 
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