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Reaching the Magic $25,000 Price Point, Who First?
- Thread starter gnuarm
- Start date
I'm not sure what that is based on. Given the key to that price point is in batteries and the Asian automakers don't seem to be jumping on the EV bandwagon as fast as other automakers, I don't see how you can expect them to be in the front on price or anything else. But you write £25000, rather than $25000. That's a huge difference, about $9,000 currently. Are you referring to the fact that there are already some EVs on the market in the EU well below that price? The only one with a 200 mile range I know of is the Chevrolet Bolt EV 1LT at $32,000 with a 259 mile range. That's still quite a way from $25,000 and is not made by any of your choices.
It's going to be all about the batteries.
I say them because it’s their bread & butter market. I say £25000 because a $49995 M3LR costs £49000 in UK in essence we pay $67000 for the same car. Although there is Citroen who are apparently fetching their Ami over to UK with 8hp and top speed of about 25mph, range is pitiful too lol. Next small car after that on current forecast for UK is the BMW i1 to replace the i3, can’t see that being below £30000 though.
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Just curious, when you all think $25k USD EV these days, are you thinking about nominal dollars or inflation-adjusted from a couple years ago when it first started looking like a realistic near-term target?
A base Chevy Bolt with 259 miles EPA rating is $32,495.00 USD MSRP right now (including destination, without TTL). According to the CPI Inflation Calculator if we go back 5 years from 2022-01 to 2017-01 that's equivalent to $28,067.26 USD. So getting pretty close to $25k USD target if you go back to the Model-3-is-coming-soon era. Also the larger battery version of the Leaf (needed for 200+ mile range) is right about that same MSRP.
Unfortunately the Bolt isn't actually for sale right now due to craptacular batteries, and the Leaf is still using craptacular air cooling and the dying CHAdeMO DCFC interface. So I wouldn't recommend either car to anyone! Better to get an ICE car in that price range, or pay more for a better EV if you can. But those two cars are very close to being inflation-adjusted $25k USD long range EVs.
Edit: I actually like the Bolt for what it is. It drives better than it looks. If purchased for a cheap enough price (below MSRP) I think it's a good basic car especially for around-town use, IF LG and Chevy can prove they've finally got the battery situation under control. Since new Bolts are not currently for sale and the latest battery packs are still very new, I don't feel like that's been proven yet, hence why I wouldn't recommend one currently.
Now the Leaf I just wouldn't recommend at all, except if it's discounted dirt cheap as an extra commuter/city car. Which is historically how most were sold or leased from what I've seen.
A base Chevy Bolt with 259 miles EPA rating is $32,495.00 USD MSRP right now (including destination, without TTL). According to the CPI Inflation Calculator if we go back 5 years from 2022-01 to 2017-01 that's equivalent to $28,067.26 USD. So getting pretty close to $25k USD target if you go back to the Model-3-is-coming-soon era. Also the larger battery version of the Leaf (needed for 200+ mile range) is right about that same MSRP.
Unfortunately the Bolt isn't actually for sale right now due to craptacular batteries, and the Leaf is still using craptacular air cooling and the dying CHAdeMO DCFC interface. So I wouldn't recommend either car to anyone! Better to get an ICE car in that price range, or pay more for a better EV if you can. But those two cars are very close to being inflation-adjusted $25k USD long range EVs.
Edit: I actually like the Bolt for what it is. It drives better than it looks. If purchased for a cheap enough price (below MSRP) I think it's a good basic car especially for around-town use, IF LG and Chevy can prove they've finally got the battery situation under control. Since new Bolts are not currently for sale and the latest battery packs are still very new, I don't feel like that's been proven yet, hence why I wouldn't recommend one currently.
Now the Leaf I just wouldn't recommend at all, except if it's discounted dirt cheap as an extra commuter/city car. Which is historically how most were sold or leased from what I've seen.
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Just curious, when you all think $25k USD EV these days, are you thinking about nominal dollars or inflation-adjusted from a couple years ago when it first started looking like a realistic near-term target?
A base Chevy Bolt with 259 miles EPA rating is $32,495.00 USD MSRP right now (including destination, without TTL). According to the CPI Inflation Calculator if we go back 5 years from 2022-01 to 2017-01 that's equivalent to $28,067.26 USD. So getting pretty close to $25k USD target if you go back to the Model-3-is-coming-soon era. Also the larger battery version of the Leaf (needed for 200+ mile range) is right about that same MSRP.
Unfortunately the Bolt isn't actually for sale right now due to craptacular batteries, and the Leaf is still using craptacular air cooling and the dying CHAdeMO DCFC interface. So I wouldn't recommend either car to anyone! Better to get an ICE car in that price range, or pay more for a better EV if you can. But those two cars are very close to being inflation-adjusted $25k USD long range EVs.
Edit: I actually like the Bolt for what it is. It drives better than it looks. If purchased for a cheap enough price (below MSRP) I think it's a good basic car especially for around-town use, IF LG and Chevy can prove they've finally got the battery situation under control. Since new Bolts are not currently for sale and the latest battery packs are still very new, I don't feel like that's been proven yet, hence why I wouldn't recommend one currently.
Now the Leaf I just wouldn't recommend at all, except if it's discounted dirt cheap as an extra commuter/city car. Which is historically how most were sold or leased from what I've seen.
Very creative, inflation adjusting back five years. You do know that the Bolt was actually for sale in 2017 and had a price, $37,495.
Why not? At some point it'll no longer be possible to make a decent $25k car because $25k literally isn't worth enough anymore.
If that happens before we see a long range EV for $25k, should the goal be dropped entirely? Or adjusted for inflation?
Right. The Bolt is much closer to being a cheap affordable car for the masses now. Which is the point of the $25k goal.
Strange conclusion. The price is still $7,500 away from the target which was established relatively recently. In this context it goes back to Nov of 2021. How much inflation have we had since then? I take back that question. You probably won't recognize that it is rhetorical.
Yes this thread only goes back to Nov 2021, but $25k as an affordable long range EV goal goes back years, I recall first hearing it as the "next" goal around / soon after $35k Model 3 announcement.
But since your starting point is just a few months ago, yes inflation isn't relevant much yet and the EV market still looks far from a decent $25k long range EV in today's dollars!
I'm not sure Tesla will still have a technology lead in five more years. I think the field will be much more homogenous with each company having their own tweak to batteries, motors and other aspects of BEV designs.
In particular, there are a lot of people doing battery research in a lot of different areas. You hear a lot about solid state batteries for example. I don't follow it enough to have an idea of which new research area has the best shot at lowering the cost of making the batteries. Heck, no small part of cost improvement will come simply from increasing the production volumes. As production ramps every upward, new cost improvements continue to be found. I've read that every 10 fold increase in production cuts the cost in half as a general rule. I wonder how many BEVs will be made annually five years from now?
However, car price inflation has been happening since early 2021. In 2020 to early 2021, Bolts were being discounted and rebated to about that price level, even though the MSRP was still $37k+.
But those days of $25k Bolt, $37k Model 3, and $40k Model Y are long gone because car demand came back up while supply was constrained by supply chain issues.
Possibilities:
* Smaller cheaper battery. Perhaps a 40kWh LFP battery with maybe 180 miles of EPA range? Would probably reduce Supercharging speed to about 2/3 of the Model 3 RWD, but that may still be decent.
* Smaller motor and other stuff to match the smaller power output that can be gotten from the battery.
* Smaller lighter car with smaller wheels, tires, suspension, brakes, etc. to match the reduced size and weight.
* Delete stuff like the glass roof, powered door and trunk opening, etc. that add cost.
But since the base Model 3 in today's market is more like $45k (rather than $37k like a year ago), a theoretical $10k cheaper model would probably be priced at $35k, not $27k (perhaps with an off-the-menu $25k option).
SmartElectric
Active Member
Why not buy 5 of these for $5K each:
www.wired.com
This Chinese EV Sells At Just Over $5,000. So We Tried It
Wuling's Mini EV, made in partnership with General Motors, outsells Tesla’s Model 3 in China and costs less than adding CarPlay to a Ferrari.
SmartElectric
Active Member
2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV/EUV Prices Confirmed: Much Lower Than 2022
Chevrolet announced today pricing of the new 2023 model year Bolt EV and Bolt EUV duo, which happens to be significantly lower than before.
insideevs.com
If you want 5 glorified golf carts, sure.Why not buy 5 of these for $5K each:
This Chinese EV Sells At Just Over $5,000. So We Tried It
Wuling's Mini EV, made in partnership with General Motors, outsells Tesla’s Model 3 in China and costs less than adding CarPlay to a Ferrari.
Why not buy 5 of these for $5K each:
This Chinese EV Sells At Just Over $5,000. So We Tried It
Wuling's Mini EV, made in partnership with General Motors, outsells Tesla’s Model 3 in China and costs less than adding CarPlay to a Ferrari.
Is that the prototype model 2? (even though we aren't calling it that)
2023 Bolt EV 1LT now starts at 26k. Which actually lands on the 25k mark since it includes ~1k hauling cost.
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www.theverge.com
GM is slashing prices for the Chevy Bolt amid high demand for electric vehicles
Most automakers are jacking up EV prices.
www.theverge.com
The Bolt MSRP cut is great. For that price it's a damn good option as an affordable, cheap to run 2nd car for commuting and local use. (Last I checked its slow DCFC rates would make road tripping somewhat painful, I think.)
Now let's hope dealers will actually sell it for that price...which I don't have much hope for, to be honest. Not in these shortage times. Already seen reports of people calling several dealers and not finding any willing to commit to MSRP sale on a 2023 Bolt.
Now let's hope dealers will actually sell it for that price...which I don't have much hope for, to be honest. Not in these shortage times. Already seen reports of people calling several dealers and not finding any willing to commit to MSRP sale on a 2023 Bolt.
2023 Bolt EV 1LT now starts at 26k. Which actually lands on the 25k mark since it includes ~1k hauling cost.
GM is slashing prices for the Chevy Bolt amid high demand for electric vehicles
Most automakers are jacking up EV prices.
I saw that, but I wonder if they are pushing down the price to try to recover market share from their battery fiasco? I don't expect they will raise the price at any point, but they probably will keep this price longer than others do. Actually, I keep hearing that material costs are expected to rise over the coming years as BEV production heats up. Who knows, maybe the Bolt will have to run up their price again?
Exelion
Member
As great as it sounds, the big dealbreaker for the Bolt/EUV is the DC charge speed-> 50kW max. 45 mins to an hour and half for charging is painfully slow. And as much as people say its An around-town car only, many people will still want to take it long distance.
Don’t know why Chevy didn’t up that to 150 or even 100kw. Be a really good car if it was.
Don’t know why Chevy didn’t up that to 150 or even 100kw. Be a really good car if it was.
