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Real world range in the North

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Struja, Mar 2, 2021 at 8:10 AM.

  1. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    I am just curious for those in the know....Does Tesla (or any EV manufacturer) have any plans to make their cars range truly comparable to ICE cars (especially in severe cold)?

    Let me explain what I mean..

    I have a 90D. When new, the 100% range was 473km, however my car was CPO, so when I got it, my 90% was 425km in June 2017.

    Right now, my 90% is 390km (due to battery degradation and I have been meticulous in caring for my battery), but on our coldest days (I mean -20 and colder), My real world range is actually about 250km at 90%. Truth be told, as a putter around the city, this is almost always sufficient but on the few times I have had to drive longer distances, I’ve had to charge twice.

    So, when I do the math, here is what I come up with...let’s say Tesla makes a 1000km range battery at 100%. Well, we know that for practical purposes, most only charge to 90%. So, the practical range is 900km.

    However, when you factor battery degradation (let’s say 15% total after 5 years) and a cold range reduction of 40%, which is what I see, we are back down in the low 500km range. Now, don’t get me wrong, that would still be amazing, but still less than the best gas cars out there. My wife’s RX gets about 600km in range and it isn’t particularly fuel efficient.

    So, are there any innovations in battery tech that limit cold weather impact?
     
  2. Casmium

    Casmium Member

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    I think the heat pump will make a difference, haven't looked for any comparisons but I'm sure someone has done one with a model 3 by now, and shortly we'll see the new model s out, rather then the resistive heating, preheating the car when plugged in seems to make quite a difference but I don't see anything coming in the next 5 years or so that will improve the range in the cold from a battery tech perspective other then larger batteries.
     
  3. ccudmore

    ccudmore Member

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    I expect that every EV manufacturer has this as their goal. They're just waiting for the science to be ready to do it. Battery technology is getting a lot of R&D money lately so improvements will eventually come.
     
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  4. coolmanfever

    coolmanfever Member

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    Well. Battery tech will be telsa 's focus for the next 5 years for sure. They are working on the next gen 4680 battery cell that will be more efficient and longer range for large vehicles like cyber trucks. Imagining sticking such battery in smaller vehicle like the rumored 20k car. There will be an inflection point that range is so large and cheap up to par to ICE car that ICE car will be secondary car option. I dunno when that will happen but I do hope soon as many TSLA investors are paying crazy amount of multiple betting that reality will arrive one day.

    I am sure they already produce few cars with 4680 battery as prototype for test but they are keeping in dark right now to avoid the Osborn effect and hurt their current cad sales.

    In the mean time, best to have a 2nd ice car or rent a ICE car for long road trip during the winter.
     
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  5. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    All good responses and the reason I posted this in the Canadian forum is because even though I love my car 100% of the time, I feel as though I have an entirely different car in the winter, where range is concerned.
     
  6. GtiMart

    GtiMart Member

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    I think we need a mix of technology advances and enough charging locations. When there's enough charging, Teslas are "good enough" for winter. If I can do 200km between charges in winter and there are superchargers when I must stop, it's okay. I would take more range but it can work. The problem occurs when there are long stretches between fast chargers or badly served regions. Or when you really are in such a hurry that you cannot stop 25min every couple hours...

    And let's be honest, a big proportion of people don't need that daily. For most, charging at home and 200km range is more than enough apart from the occasional trip.
     
  7. CadillacJack

    CadillacJack Member

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    Usually warming up your battery by finishing charging just before leaving makes a huge difference with long distance range in the winter. The car also doesn't have to wait for 30+ minutes for full regen either. As a fairly early owner, I'm used to all the tips and tricks to getting more range out of my (then) 400 km max range in a P85. Having 500km of range and Superchargers seemingly everywhere now is like a massive luxury. :) Doug's article on winter driving has lots of nuggets - it's linked here somewhere.

    As for battery tech, I'm sure it's going to easier to provide more range in the near term than completely having the same range in the winter. Maybe the solid state battery thing will help with that, but from where Tesla's headed that seems a far way out still from mass production.
     
  8. rypalmer

    rypalmer Active Member

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    IMHO when battery technology advances in regards to weight density and charging speed, making cars lighter and cheaper will be just as important as giving them 1,000km ranges. There is a battery shortage now and I would rather there be two EV's on the road rated for 500km than one that can do twice that. It would be the very rare circumstance where vehicles should be optimized for regular 500km trips "in the North". That's potentially a lot of battery and expense to carry around the rest of the year when it's not needed. That said, I do wish the Model Y had a LR+ option about 20% bigger than the current LR option.
     
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  9. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    #9 Struja, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:38 AM
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021 at 5:44 AM
    That is not really the issue. The issue is that I bought a car with 473km in range that is reduced to about 250km on the coldest days. While I agree that is usually enough for my day to day driving, when you explain that fact to a non-EV owner, that is a pretty unattractive future for your car.

    Frankly, the issue could be to make a 500km battery that is 500km all year round. My example above didn’t say to make 1000km battery, I illustrated that even a 1000km battery is only barely better than 500km in real world range on very cold days. I have found that even when I pre-heat my battery it only marginally assists my battery performance in the severe cold.
     
  10. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Active Member

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    Heh heh. Looking back on my grand Cherokee days. Our 6 cylinder grand Cherokee in winter was a pig. We would leave Vernon BC and drive to Vancouver. Tank was at a quarter by the time we got to Merritt. Interestingly enough the model 3 is about 30 percent when we arrive in Merritt in winter. I don’t know why that grand Cherokee was such a pig in winter but wow. It hated that unending hill out of Kelowna. :).
     
  11. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    In normal times, I drive from Toronto to Warren, MIchigan regularly to visit family. On a 100% charge I can make it door to door without charging. In the winter, I charge (usually) at Woodstock and sometimes I will top up in either at Port Huron or Roseville, just to make sure I make it. It is truly an entirely different experience in the dead of winter.
     
  12. GtiMart

    GtiMart Member

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    The thing is, consumption is also different in ICE cars but you get far enough that it's in order to pee or eat that you stop. You just put fuel in more often without realizing it. The factor might not be 50% of the summer efficiency on the highway, maybe it's 70% of summer.
    EVs require a slightly different approach to planning trips, and EVs in winter require a more careful plan.
     
  13. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Active Member

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    Yep it is. But it was with our Grand Cherokee as well.

    Anyway, we count on 40 percent less range and it usually works out to about 35 ish percent. Easy to deal with. Either way I have to pee after 3 hours. :). I generally don’t stop to charge, I just charge while I’m stopped. :).
     
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