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Real world range m3p vs long range
- Thread starter moto111
- Start date
The short answer is that yes 18” wheels and tires get me about 350 miles(@ 60 mph) on a charge with my Model 3 Performance. It is about 11% more efficient than with the 20” UberHeavy wheels.
Here is what it looks like with 18” wheels and Hypermiling.
Here is what it looks like with 18” wheels and Hypermiling.
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@moto111 Originally the Model 3 Performance was simply a different software config on Dual Motor Long Range cars. Efficiency was identical when not using the extra power as there were zero mechanical differences.
Now there's a few mechanical differences, but the wheels and tires are the only significant ones for efficiency. If you put the same wheels and tires on both, you will see essentially identical efficiency and range in the real world. (Again, only if you avoid using the extra power.)
Both the wheels and tires are important for efficiency!
The 18x8.5" aero wheels from a base Model 3 (with aero covers) are known to NOT fit over the Performance Upgrade Package (PUP) brakes which come standard on all Performance Model 3's now. However there's at least one aftermarket 18x8.5" aero wheel (with a similar removable covers setup) that is known to fit, and should be as efficient as the Tesla aero wheel.
Even a regular non-aero 18" wheel will give you an efficiency boost compared to the huge, heavy 20" wheels the M3P comes with. I switched my 2021 M3P to 18x8.5" forged wheels with an open spoke design, with tires from the same "max performance" category as the stock tires, and I still noticed improved efficiency that I wasn't even looking for, along with more grip thanks to higher-performing tires. (I made the change for better wheel protection.)
To get the full efficiency of a 100% stock LR AWD though you will need 18x8.5" aero wheels (aftermarket ones), AND you will need the Michelin MXM4 tires that base Model 3's come with, or something equally efficient. The MXM4 are narrowly focused on efficiency, they have really poor grip dry and wet with poor handling feel, but you could put them on an M3P if you really want to. (My take: Why would you buy a Performance car and then put those Prius tires on it?
Just switch to 18" wheels with good performance tires.)
Now there's a few mechanical differences, but the wheels and tires are the only significant ones for efficiency. If you put the same wheels and tires on both, you will see essentially identical efficiency and range in the real world. (Again, only if you avoid using the extra power.)
Both the wheels and tires are important for efficiency!
The 18x8.5" aero wheels from a base Model 3 (with aero covers) are known to NOT fit over the Performance Upgrade Package (PUP) brakes which come standard on all Performance Model 3's now. However there's at least one aftermarket 18x8.5" aero wheel (with a similar removable covers setup) that is known to fit, and should be as efficient as the Tesla aero wheel.
Even a regular non-aero 18" wheel will give you an efficiency boost compared to the huge, heavy 20" wheels the M3P comes with. I switched my 2021 M3P to 18x8.5" forged wheels with an open spoke design, with tires from the same "max performance" category as the stock tires, and I still noticed improved efficiency that I wasn't even looking for, along with more grip thanks to higher-performing tires. (I made the change for better wheel protection.)
To get the full efficiency of a 100% stock LR AWD though you will need 18x8.5" aero wheels (aftermarket ones), AND you will need the Michelin MXM4 tires that base Model 3's come with, or something equally efficient. The MXM4 are narrowly focused on efficiency, they have really poor grip dry and wet with poor handling feel, but you could put them on an M3P if you really want to. (My take: Why would you buy a Performance car and then put those Prius tires on it?
Just switch to 18" wheels with good performance tires.)@moto111 A few more things I'll mention:
1) 18" wheels over the M3P PUP brakes are a snug fit, and not all 18" wheels fit, make sure the brand/seller promises the wheels fit. There are many known to fit, and MANY of us on these forums are running 18s on the PUP brakes, it's completely fine, but your tire shop will need to be careful with wheel weight style and placement. Thin weights only, and only along the outermost portion of the inner barrel surface, otherwise they will rub on the rear parking brake (which sticks out closer to the barrel than any other part of the brakes, front or rear). Or go with weights on the outer barrel surface (hidden inside the tire) if that's an option (I've heard it is but never had wheels balanced that way myself).
2) These are the aftermarket 18x8.5" aero wheels I mentioned that fit the M3P PUP brakes:
www.aftermarketev.com
I've no personal experience with those EV01 wheels, but I've seen forum members post pictures of them, they seem to be legit. If you want to put aero wheels on a new M3P, they look like the easiest and best option. Get the +35mm offset version for M3P PUP brakes of course (not the +40mm version which is meant for the standard Model 3 brake rotor hat).
In addition to 18x8.5" they also have 19x8.5" and 19x9.5" sizes of that EV01 wheel, and other Model 3 wheels, but if you're seeking maximum efficiency get the EV01 in 18x8.5" (smallest size, and same size as the base Model 3 aero wheels).
3) These are the 18x8.5" forged wheels I'm using:
titan-7.com
In addition to 18x8.5" they also have 19x9", 19x9.5", 20x8.5" in M3P fitments of that T-S5 wheel, as well as some (not all) of their other wheels. Again though, if it's maximum efficiency you want, go with the smallest size, 18x8.5" (same size as the base Model 3 wheels).
You can see the T-S5 is a very open spoke design, definitely not aerodynamic like the EV01, but I still gained efficiency as mentioned, both on the highway and on curvy rural roads with lots of slowdowns + speedups for turns. My guess is having taller sidewall / shorter spokes is good for aerodynamics, and of course 18" wheels weight less - MUCH less than the uber-heavy stock 20x9" wheels! - which is surely good for acceleration + deceleration efficiency. (The taller sidewall tires can weigh a tiny bit more, but overall wheel+tire weight is always less with smaller diameter wheels / taller sidewall tire when comparing with the same wheel, and the difference is even more stark when you compare decent aftermarket wheels to the incredibly heavy M3P stock wheels.)
Titan7 made my shortlist because when they list a wheel spec as Model 3 / M3P fitment, they truly mean a direct fitment, the wheel is spec'd specifically for this car, including center bore machined for the M3P PUP "stepped lip." Some other wheel brands get this right too thankfully, but many don't, e.g. they'll advertise wheels spec'd for a Mustang (same bolt pattern, similar-ish offsets) as compatible with our cars, and you need to use rings and/or spacers to actually mount them properly (center bore is different, and the offset might be too high). Not a big deal but I preferred wheels actually spec'd to fit this car directly, since there are such options on the market now!
1) 18" wheels over the M3P PUP brakes are a snug fit, and not all 18" wheels fit, make sure the brand/seller promises the wheels fit. There are many known to fit, and MANY of us on these forums are running 18s on the PUP brakes, it's completely fine, but your tire shop will need to be careful with wheel weight style and placement. Thin weights only, and only along the outermost portion of the inner barrel surface, otherwise they will rub on the rear parking brake (which sticks out closer to the barrel than any other part of the brakes, front or rear). Or go with weights on the outer barrel surface (hidden inside the tire) if that's an option (I've heard it is but never had wheels balanced that way myself).
2) These are the aftermarket 18x8.5" aero wheels I mentioned that fit the M3P PUP brakes:
FastEV EV01(+) Wheels for Tesla Model 3 18" (Set of 4)
The EV01+ Wheels Designed for Tesla Model 3 by Fast Wheels in Canada. Created to not only look amazing on your Tesla but they are lighter than factory Tesla rims as well as more aerodynamic. Increase range with Fast Wheels EV01 and set your Tesla Model 3 apart from the rest.
www.aftermarketev.com
I've no personal experience with those EV01 wheels, but I've seen forum members post pictures of them, they seem to be legit.
If you want to put aero wheels on a new M3P, they look like the easiest and best option. Get the +35mm offset version for M3P PUP brakes of course (not the +40mm version which is meant for the standard Model 3 brake rotor hat).In addition to 18x8.5" they also have 19x8.5" and 19x9.5" sizes of that EV01 wheel, and other Model 3 wheels, but if you're seeking maximum efficiency get the EV01 in 18x8.5" (smallest size, and same size as the base Model 3 aero wheels).
3) These are the 18x8.5" forged wheels I'm using:
T-S5 Forged Split 5 Spoke Domestic EV
WHEEL DESCRIPTION TITAN 7 T-S5 is a fully forged wheel designed completely with performance in mind. Pressurized with 10,000 TONS of industry leading pressure to give you a wheel that is incredibly strong while giving you all of the performance attributes you need in a track focused wheel. Upon...
titan-7.com
In addition to 18x8.5" they also have 19x9", 19x9.5", 20x8.5" in M3P fitments of that T-S5 wheel, as well as some (not all) of their other wheels. Again though, if it's maximum efficiency you want, go with the smallest size, 18x8.5" (same size as the base Model 3 wheels).
You can see the T-S5 is a very open spoke design, definitely not aerodynamic like the EV01, but I still gained efficiency as mentioned, both on the highway and on curvy rural roads with lots of slowdowns + speedups for turns. My guess is having taller sidewall / shorter spokes is good for aerodynamics, and of course 18" wheels weight less - MUCH less than the uber-heavy stock 20x9" wheels! - which is surely good for acceleration + deceleration efficiency. (The taller sidewall tires can weigh a tiny bit more, but overall wheel+tire weight is always less with smaller diameter wheels / taller sidewall tire when comparing with the same wheel, and the difference is even more stark when you compare decent aftermarket wheels to the incredibly heavy M3P stock wheels.)
Titan7 made my shortlist because when they list a wheel spec as Model 3 / M3P fitment, they truly mean a direct fitment, the wheel is spec'd specifically for this car, including center bore machined for the M3P PUP "stepped lip." Some other wheel brands get this right too thankfully, but many don't, e.g. they'll advertise wheels spec'd for a Mustang (same bolt pattern, similar-ish offsets) as compatible with our cars, and you need to use rings and/or spacers to actually mount them properly (center bore is different, and the offset might be too high). Not a big deal but I preferred wheels actually spec'd to fit this car directly, since there are such options on the market now!
I’ll probably stick with t sportlines as it seems the easiest option just to throw something on . Will probably do 18s for winter and keep the turbines for summer/fall .
My main thing is 80 mile commute I never want to have to worry about charging for my daily commute no matter the conditions . I’ll be charging 14-50 at home
My main thing is 80 mile commute I never want to have to worry about charging for my daily commute no matter the conditions . I’ll be charging 14-50 at home
With Chicago winters I would definitely go T Sportlines with some true winter tires. If you keep your speed down the efficiency will be acceptable. Speed REALLY kills efficiency with EVs.
@moto111 T-Sportline should be good, also a direct fitment. Only downside is they're cast but cost almost as much as entry-level forged like Titan7 or Martian (two that make direct M3P fitment forged wheels). T-Sportline designs are very different though, obviously very Tesla OEM like, so if you like that they're a great option.
The 20" Uberturbines will probably get destroyed by Chicago roads, even in the summer. Here's what happened to one of our original Model S wheels with its stock 245/35R21 tires - a very similar big fragile cast wheel + short sidewall tire, like the M3P with 20s:
That happened in a place that doesn't even see freezing weather. No specific pothole, the road was just very torn up and bump, like many are. The Uberturbines come with even less tire (235/35 vs 245/35), and Tesla has said nothing about their construction to make me think they would hold up any better than the big Model S wheels.
That is why we immediately downsized our M3P to smaller wheels, year-round. It sucks but my advice is if you don't want to deal with cracked or bent wheels, pinch flats, etc - downsize for summer too, don't even bother putting the Uberturbines back on except maybe to sell the car someday. (Unless Chicago roads are a lot smoother / better maintained than I recall!) I actually really like how the Uberturbines look on the Model 3, they're just not very functional for the nastier real world roads anywhere I've lived.
Good luck!
The 20" Uberturbines will probably get destroyed by Chicago roads, even in the summer. Here's what happened to one of our original Model S wheels with its stock 245/35R21 tires - a very similar big fragile cast wheel + short sidewall tire, like the M3P with 20s:
That happened in a place that doesn't even see freezing weather. No specific pothole, the road was just very torn up and bump, like many are. The Uberturbines come with even less tire (235/35 vs 245/35), and Tesla has said nothing about their construction to make me think they would hold up any better than the big Model S wheels.
That is why we immediately downsized our M3P to smaller wheels, year-round. It sucks but my advice is if you don't want to deal with cracked or bent wheels, pinch flats, etc - downsize for summer too, don't even bother putting the Uberturbines back on except maybe to sell the car someday. (Unless Chicago roads are a lot smoother / better maintained than I recall!) I actually really like how the Uberturbines look on the Model 3, they're just not very functional for the nastier real world roads anywhere I've lived.
Good luck!
I don’t believe T Sportline sells truly “cast” options anymore. They aren’t all forged either. However, most of their options are “Flow Forged”. Not truly “Forged” but certainly better than just “cast”.
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"Flow forged" is cast. It should be labeled "flow formed" but many wheel brands seem to love misleading customers into thinking there's actually forging involved or the wheel isn't cast. There is no real forging if all they say is "flow forged." (T-Sportline is hardly the only brand to use the misleading "flow forged" term.)
I've nothing against flow forming the barrel of cast wheels! It seems like a good, useful way to give it extra strength for extremely minimal extra manufacturing cost, much cheaper than milling the wheel from a true forged block. But flow forming isn't forging, just isn't, and personally I would expect to pay significantly less for flow formed cast wheels than true forged wheels of similar manufacturing providence.
(E.g. made-in-a-democracy wheels consistently cost more than made-in-an-undemocratic-cheap-labor-country, for a given type of wheel construction. All of these wheels we're talking about here are made in the same undemocratic cheap labor country, I believe.)
With T-Sportline I consider their pricing reflecting their uniqueness of offering Tesla-OEM-like designs as aftermarket wheels in a wider variety of sizing. If you want that, go for it, they're a good option, maybe the only option. If you don't particularly care about the Tesla OEM style designs, then there are other flow formed wheels for cheaper, or true forged wheels for not much extra.
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Forgestar wheels are flow formed cast, or at least most of their wheels are. They're very open about that though obviously "Forgestar" name itself is misleading. I thought I once read they're manufactured here in America, but I'm not seeing anything about that on their website right now and surely they would advertise it. (Maybe they used to manufacture here but no longer do?)
Pricing out a 19x9.5" Forgestar wheel (they don't seem to make 18"!), it looks decently priced for flow formed, even if it's not made in America or other high labor cost democracy. About $400/set cheaper than some T-Sportline wheels I just checked in the same size.
Also I noticed the Titan7 wheels I bought are $200/set more expensive now. Martian wheels went up too I think, they're still priced right in line with Titan7. So the price gap from T-Sportline to low end forged has widened, and T-Sportline doesn't look quite as overpriced as before. They still charge a premium price for flow formed though, the Forgestar comparison makes that clear, and there are other flow formed wheels cheaper than Forgestar. (Enkei comes to mind off the top of my head. They probably don't make direct M3P fitments but then again I'm not sure Forgestar does either, unless you pay extra for custom, which is a nice option they offer.)
Again if you especially like one of the T-Sportline Tesla design clones then go for it, the price isn't crazy or anything, they're a direct fit, and as far as I know the wheels are perfectly good.
Pricing out a 19x9.5" Forgestar wheel (they don't seem to make 18"!), it looks decently priced for flow formed, even if it's not made in America or other high labor cost democracy. About $400/set cheaper than some T-Sportline wheels I just checked in the same size.
Also I noticed the Titan7 wheels I bought are $200/set more expensive now. Martian wheels went up too I think, they're still priced right in line with Titan7. So the price gap from T-Sportline to low end forged has widened, and T-Sportline doesn't look quite as overpriced as before. They still charge a premium price for flow formed though, the Forgestar comparison makes that clear, and there are other flow formed wheels cheaper than Forgestar. (Enkei comes to mind off the top of my head. They probably don't make direct M3P fitments but then again I'm not sure Forgestar does either, unless you pay extra for custom, which is a nice option they offer.)
Again if you especially like one of the T-Sportline Tesla design clones then go for it, the price isn't crazy or anything, they're a direct fit, and as far as I know the wheels are perfectly good.
When I bought my T Sportline wheels, tires, and TPMS sensors they had a 10% off their already reasonable price. Yes they certainly aren’t truly forged for most styles. However, they are typically about 3-4 lbs heavier than true forged and their tire packages are plug and play.
I have seen some tires that weigh 5-6 lbs more than other tires of the same size. It always gets me when someone pays a premium to get ultra lightweight wheels and then puts heavy tires on them.
Wheels and especially tires have become EXTREMELY expensive now with shortages. Just trying to get the right tires can be difficult now unless you pay a premium for them.
@mpgxsvcd So true! I waited a month for my wheels (the retailer was up front about them being out of stock). Then when they arrived sooner than expected (ETA was 2+ months), the tires I'd decided on were backordered everywhere with no real ETA. 
I had no patience left at that point and went with my next choice tire, which turned out to be excellent for my taste, thankfully.
I had no patience left at that point and went with my next choice tire, which turned out to be excellent for my taste, thankfully.I like the look of the Titan& T-S5 with the open spoke design. These have a +35 offset. The Uberturbines have a +34 offset and are 9" wide. changing from 9" to 8.4" wheel will make the outside bead of the tire 1/4" (6.35mm) deeper in the fender. With stock suspension the wheels can be spaced out 10 to 15mm without a problem. The T-S5 is going to have the outside tire bead 7.35mm deeper in the fender well.@moto111 A few more things I'll mention:
1) 18" wheels over the M3P PUP brakes are a snug fit, and not all 18" wheels fit, make sure the brand/seller promises the wheels fit. There are many known to fit, and MANY of us on these forums are running 18s on the PUP brakes, it's completely fine, but your tire shop will need to be careful with wheel weight style and placement. Thin weights only, and only along the outermost portion of the inner barrel surface, otherwise they will rub on the rear parking brake (which sticks out closer to the barrel than any other part of the brakes, front or rear). Or go with weights on the outer barrel surface (hidden inside the tire) if that's an option (I've heard it is but never had wheels balanced that way myself).
2) These are the aftermarket 18x8.5" aero wheels I mentioned that fit the M3P PUP brakes:
FastEV EV01(+) Wheels for Tesla Model 3 18" (Set of 4)
The EV01+ Wheels Designed for Tesla Model 3 by Fast Wheels in Canada. Created to not only look amazing on your Tesla but they are lighter than factory Tesla rims as well as more aerodynamic. Increase range with Fast Wheels EV01 and set your Tesla Model 3 apart from the rest.
I've no personal experience with those EV01 wheels, but I've seen forum members post pictures of them, they seem to be legit.
In addition to 18x8.5" they also have 19x8.5" and 19x9.5" sizes of that EV01 wheel, and other Model 3 wheels, but if you're seeking maximum efficiency get the EV01 in 18x8.5" (smallest size, and same size as the base Model 3 aero wheels).
3) These are the 18x8.5" forged wheels I'm using:
T-S5 Forged Split 5 Spoke Domestic EV
WHEEL DESCRIPTION TITAN 7 T-S5 is a fully forged wheel designed completely with performance in mind. Pressurized with 10,000 TONS of industry leading pressure to give you a wheel that is incredibly strong while giving you all of the performance attributes you need in a track focused wheel. Upon...
In addition to 18x8.5" they also have 19x9", 19x9.5", 20x8.5" in M3P fitments of that T-S5 wheel, as well as some (not all) of their other wheels. Again though, if it's maximum efficiency you want, go with the smallest size, 18x8.5" (same size as the base Model 3 wheels).
You can see the T-S5 is a very open spoke design, definitely not aerodynamic like the EV01, but I still gained efficiency as mentioned, both on the highway and on curvy rural roads with lots of slowdowns + speedups for turns. My guess is having taller sidewall / shorter spokes is good for aerodynamics, and of course 18" wheels weight less - MUCH less than the uber-heavy stock 20x9" wheels! - which is surely good for acceleration + deceleration efficiency. (The taller sidewall tires can weigh a tiny bit more, but overall wheel+tire weight is always less with smaller diameter wheels / taller sidewall tire when comparing with the same wheel, and the difference is even more stark when you compare decent aftermarket wheels to the incredibly heavy M3P stock wheels.)
Titan7 made my shortlist because when they list a wheel spec as Model 3 / M3P fitment, they truly mean a direct fitment, the wheel is spec'd specifically for this car, including center bore machined for the M3P PUP "stepped lip." Some other wheel brands get this right too thankfully, but many don't, e.g. they'll advertise wheels spec'd for a Mustang (same bolt pattern, similar-ish offsets) as compatible with our cars, and you need to use rings and/or spacers to actually mount them properly (center bore is different, and the offset might be too high). Not a big deal but I preferred wheels actually spec'd to fit this car directly, since there are such options on the market now!
Is your car stock height? Do you feel the wheels would look better spaced out? If so how much?
I am thinking that 18x8,5 wheels on stock suspension need +20 to +25 offset.
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