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Realistic Range Expectations in Crummy Winter Weather

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even in moderate cold, the 21's are slippery. I've pretty much given up on them for up north, just not worth going back and forth. don't despair though, the 19's are almost just as cool ;~)... and in case you haven't seen the thread these are my favorite wheel option, allowing for tires with long life, better traction in varied weather conditions and improved range and they still look pretty awesome: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/11271-19-quot-Turbine-Wheel-Solution/page48

I got those: Delivery of first Model S to Estonia soon and the road there... - Page 2 and with Nokian Hakka 8 (this years model) for about 70% of the cost of Tesla set and I at least know that it's here and waiting. With the Tesla set I couldn't be sure that it actually would have made it here today and they'd not have swapped in Tilburg because they had 0 sets there available, they planned to ship it from Copenhagen so I declined.
 
To add another data point, here's what I learned last night, driving my regular Thursday evening route, when the OAT was between -3 deg. F. and +5 deg. F; in more moderate weather, with temps between 50 and 80 F., I usually make the round trip averaging about 300 Wh/mi. Roads were mostly drive pavement with a little dusting of snow later in the evening. Winds were light.

Mine is a Model S Sig, VIN00118, non-Perf, 85kWh, riding on 19" stock wheels with new Michelin X-Ice Xi3's all around. I started around 5:30pm when the OAT was +5 F and the car's OAT gauge (in the garage) read +41 F. Rated Range was 242 miles at the start, following half an hour of last-minute charging and preheating the cabin. I kept the thermostat at 64, used the blue Defrost setting mostly, with occasional bursts of red High Defrost. My car has the old style vents and fogging of the left side of the windshield and the driver's door window was an issue throughout.


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The first leg of this trip is on E-470 a lightly-traveled divided highway (it's way out of the way and has steep tolls, but driving it is so much less crazy-making that I usually just pay the tolls and accept the wear and tear on my tires) with gradual climbs and descents, with the low point being about 5100' elevation and the high point about 6100'; I had the cruise control set for 74 most of the time, though there were traffic slowdowns the last five miles or so. The highest average I saw was 440 wH/mi about 35 miles into the leg as I crested the highest point of the route. Totals for the leg: one hour travel time, 57.9 miles driven, 82 miles Rated range used, 23.7 kWh consumed, at an average of 410 Wh/mi. The temperature dropped to -3 F. at one point, but hovered around zero F. most of the time. Normally at this point in the trip I'd be sitting at 330-340 Wh/mi.

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A little less than four hours later I emerged from rehearsal to find a light dusting of snow and the car's OAT reading +5 F.; as soon as I started moving it dropped to -1 F. Notice that the car 'lost' 8 miles of Rated range while sitting unplugged for that length of time. I did turn on the cabin heat remotely, about 15 minutes before driving.

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The second leg is much shorter, because I go straight up the gut through Denver instead of taking the long way around. The first ten miles or so are 35-45mph, stop-and-go on city streets; once on the highway it's 60-65mph most of the rest of the way home. I got home 45 minutes later having consumed another 13 kWh and averaged 'only' about 360 Wh/mi for the leg (it's the speed, stupid!), for a trip total of 93.2 mi, consuming 135 Rated miles of range and 36.7 kWh, at an average of 394 Wh/mi.

If you accept my statement that this route normally averages right around 300 Wh/mi, this cold-weather trip consumed about 31% more energy. A note on regen limits: even after preheating in a 41 F. garage, I started out with the regen limit at about 30 kW; it slowly increased until disappearing completely about halfway through my first leg. After four hours of cold-soaking, the regen limit was about 20 kW and never completely went away, rising to about 40 kW by the time I got home.

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In summary, then: Chad_S's trip-planning, no-headache recommendation to limit legs to 177 miles max between charging stops in an 85 is golden...unless the weather's really, really cold; really, really snowy; and/or with high winds or large elevation changes. I would have made 177 miles last night, but just barely. Of course, I didn't start out with quite a full Range charge, but the roads were mostly dry pavement and the winds were light.
 
A little less than four hours later I emerged from rehearsal to find a light dusting of snow and the car's OAT reading +5 F.; as soon as I started moving it dropped to -1 F. Notice that the car 'lost' 8 miles of Rated range while sitting unplugged for that length of time. I did turn on the cabin heat remotely, about 15 minutes before driving.

In this very cold weather in Colorado, I have been doing several short errands and visits to friends. It has been very nice to preheat the car. I agree that the preheat uses miles (energy) from the battery that is not reflected in the Avg Energy usage. Preheating the cabin from the battery also seems to warm the battery some and raise the regen limit.
 
I am having the same problem, the weather in Seattle is around 25 degrees, 85kw MS is taking 114 rated range for 51 actual miles. That means I have a range of less than 100 miles on my daily charge. The dash read "regen disconnected caution" more disappointments. I do not feel confident on ever taking the car on a road trip in the winter.

Loosing the Tesla Fever!
 
I am having the same problem, the weather in Seattle is around 25 degrees, 85kw MS is taking 114 rated range for 51 actual miles. That means I have a range of less than 100 miles on my daily charge. The dash read "regen disconnected caution" more disappointments. I do not feel confident on ever taking the car on a road trip in the winter.

Loosing the Tesla Fever!

You have to realize that short trips are the worst-case scenario for Model S in cold conditions. It has to warm the pack and the cabin; this initially takes a lot of power.

If you preheat while plugged in this minimizes the problem. Once the car is warm it uses no additional power to heat the pack (except in very extreme conditions) and much less power to heat the cabin. So while you're seeing 100% extra power consumption, on a long trip in very cold conditions you can expect to see a number more like 20%. That has been my real-world experience.
 
I am having the same problem, the weather in Seattle is around 25 degrees, 85kw MS is taking 114 rated range for 51 actual miles. That means I have a range of less than 100 miles on my daily charge. The dash read "regen disconnected caution" more disappointments. I do not feel confident on ever taking the car on a road trip in the winter.

Loosing the Tesla Fever!

What Doug_G said. I drove 150 miles today in Portland area (similar weather) and used about 200 miles of rated range (+30%). Of course I was doing NOTHING to minimize energy usage: cabin heat on, seat heaters on, playing music, going mostly 65 mph.

Its really about understand what your car will do in various situations and adjusting your expectations. I planned for the -30% energy based on my previous 12 months of driving so it wasn't a big deal.

I did have an unexpected 60 mile round trip this afternoon but I have the HPWC and was able to add 65 miles of range in just over an hour. That easily made the trip with 50 or so miles of reserve. This lesson certainly reinforces (a) leave it plugged in, (b) pre-heat battery, (c) charge when ever you can.

During the summer I would go several days without charging (especially with the new 5.8 sleep) but NOT while its cold like this! Think different.
 
I have been driving in the Minneapolis metro area where it has been =9 to + 5 degrees F for a few days. 20 to 30 mile trips will use around 600 Wh/mile, twice the rated range consumption. The conditions are conservative driving ( can't do much else in a snow storm), cabin temp 66 F, seat heaters at 1.

Most of the extra energy goes in the first 10 minutes of driving, apparently to heat the battery. Projecting the energy graph off the charts, it looks like a peak of 1500 Wh/mile. Power is often limited to about 60 kW and increasing as the battery warms. I have noticed that if the car is sitting out side for maybe 2 hours in these conditions, the battery loses its heat. and the warming cycle will start over at the beginning of the next trip.

Once the battery is warm, then the consumption settles down to perhaps 350 Wh/ mile reflecting the load of the cabin and seat heaters I guess. This is in line with the 20% penalty that others have indicated.

If your car starts cold and your trips are shorter than 30 miles or so, expect the consumption to average in the 600 Wh/mile range. A trip of 150 miles with the car starting out warm, should produce consumption of around 350 Wh/ mile in near zero conditions. A trip of 3 miles with a cold car will be off the charts.

I have observed another thing that is related to safe driving and cold batteries. We know the regen feature can be set for standard or low. The deceleration on the standard setting is enough so that the brakes are used little. Well, under cold conditions, the regen may be totally disabled until the battery warms. An alert is given in the instrument panel. When disabled, there is absolutely no engine braking that i can detect. That, in addition to the low rolling resistance tires and the low aero drag, results in a condition where the car will coast very freely. When contrasted with the regen in the standard condition, this is quite a change in car behavior and may catch the unaware driver. The drivers notification does say "drive carefully". This is not a problem if you are aware of the characteristic.
 
I'm still waiting to see the "Battery Pack Warming" annunciator, and I've never had the pack be so cold that I had no regen at all. And referring to my previous post, I left the car unplugged for four hours in zero F, so I think the thermal mass of the pack is such that it would have to be not fully up to optimal operating temperature for there to be no regen after just two hours in the cold. Wind and humidity could be factors, of course, as well as the ambient temperature.

Based on my experience, I'm guessing that a fair percentage of your excess consumption is due to snow on the roads.
 
I'm still waiting to see the "Battery Pack Warming" annunciator, and I've never had the pack be so cold that I had no regen at all. And referring to my previous post, I left the car unplugged for four hours in zero F, so I think the thermal mass of the pack is such that it would have to be not fully up to optimal operating temperature for there to be no regen after just two hours in the cold. Wind and humidity could be factors, of course, as well as the ambient temperature.



The roads have been mostly clear, but traffic speeds reduced. 4 hours exposed in an open parking lot at -5 F has resulted in regen disabled more than once. You can tell how close it is to being disabled by noting how close the regen dashed orange line is to the 0 kW level.
 
I'm still waiting to see the "Battery Pack Warming" annunciator, and I've never had the pack be so cold that I had no regen at all. And referring to my previous post, I left the car unplugged for four hours in zero F, so I think the thermal mass of the pack is such that it would have to be not fully up to optimal operating temperature for there to be no regen after just two hours in the cold. Wind and humidity could be factors, of course, as well as the ambient temperature.



The roads have been mostly clear, but traffic speeds reduced. 4 hours exposed in an open parking lot at -5 F has resulted in regen disabled more than once. You can tell how close it is to being disabled by noting how close the regen dashed orange line is to the 0 kW level.

Right you are: you said a couple of hours in the post I commented on, not four hours. I can well imagine that four hours in -5 could result in no regen, especially if the pack wasn't fully warmed when you park.

The other thing to realize is that the slower your average speed, the greater will be the energy you use per mile for cabin and pack heating.
 
I was very aware of energy per mile today. At 25*F driving without climate control on the sweet spot for energy seemed to be 42-43 mph. Slower used more energy perhaps to keep the battery warm(certainly not me:)). Faster also used more energy. I was able to use about 210 Wh/mile. At 45 mph the car used 230Wh/mile. Similarly energy use went up to 230-235Wh/mile when I turned cabin heat back on after an hour. I was using DRLs and the pack was warm from my heedless sprint on the tollway to a non functioning but displayed Supercharger in a wasteland for EV charging. I could have stopped a one of several KOA campgrounds but I am was not that desperate or pioneering.

When I took off with a 50*F battery and was driving at 75 mph the car was using about 480Wh/mile.
 
I made an Excel spreadsheet to estimate driving range for a given charge state, and average HVAC load. Only flat, and dry road conditions without wind are considered. The road load of the model s can be deduced from the curve in the Tesla website. Road load leads to a road power at each speed. The average HVAC power is added to the road load power to yield total power consumption at speed. Total power divided into charge capacity yields time to discharge and multiplying that times speed gives range. Well so much for the math, the result is much more understandable as shown in the chart:
Range Chart.jpg


You can see with zero HVAC load, driving range decreases linearly with speed over the range 35 to 90 mph. This is an approximation, but visually agrees with the Tesla curve. As HVAC load is increased, the driving range at any speed goes down, as one might expect. I used 8000 kW for the 100% HVAC load, consistent with what I see after the battery is warmed and near 0 deg F driving with no passenger complaints. The chart shows driving range can decrease around 50% from the rated with a heavy HVAC load. This is equivalent to energy consumptions in the area of 600 Wh/mi, also consistent with what people report here.

It is interesting to see that with higher HVAC loads, it sometimes pays to go faster to get a bigger range.

The particular numbers generating the chart may be up for debate here, but I think the value is in understanding the shape and trends. I know it helped my understanding.
 
Thanks, that is a useful way of looking at it. Here's another method I made about a year ago. The green line comes directly from Tesla's range-vs-speed data. The bottom of the shaded area is my computed adjustment if the HVAC is running at 100% based on cinergi's HVAC draw measurements (though I'm not sure that's completely accurate for a long trip, as the Model S may, say, use a resistive element early on and switch to a heat pump later. Or combine them. Who knows). So depending on how much HVAC you are using, your range will fall somewhere in the shaded area. The less HVAC you use, the closer you are to the green line.

The really big takeaway is that HVAC is time-based, rather than speed-based like mph. So the slower you go, the bigger of a hit it is. With no HVAC, going slower gets you farther until about 18mph. But with HVAC at full blast, that is only true until about 45mph - and even then the added range due to slowing down is much smaller.

The left part of the graph is interesting for city traffic and such; but usually when range is an issue in a Model S, people are traveling at freeway speeds, so most people will want to focus on the right 1/3 of the graph.

model s range.jpg
 
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