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Realistic Wh/mile expectation for new MS 60?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by dknisely, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. dknisely

    dknisely Member

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    We got a new MS 60 (software limited 75) and just completed the first non-trivial trip today. My wife was getting well over 350 Wh/mile for the first ~40 miles, and I was able to eek out about 320 Wh/mile driving very carefully on the return 40 miles. The conditions were @75-80% initial charge both halves of the trip, ~3C, clear, no wind, almost all I-5 highway miles with conventional cruise 65-69 MPH almost the whole way. Regen was not even partially blocked at any time. Battery was preheated both times due to charge in progress. Full regen, heat to 63F, one seat heater on setting 1. No other energy consumer.

    This seems way lower than the trip planners use for nominal values for this model (265-275 Wh/mile or even less). At this usage, I'll get 185 mile range at best (assuming I actually get 60 KWh capacity, which is unlikely), and this trip was nearly ideal.

    Is this within the reasonable bounds of expectation?
     
  2. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    Yes.

    One factor negatively impacting your efficiency a bit is your brand new tires. They have higher rolling resistance than they will have after 500-1000 miles, so you will see some improved efficiency after they wear down a bit.

    Cold air is denser than warm air. So much of what you are seeing is due to the cold.

    There's another similar thread, also started today. I'll provide the same advice I did to that OP: don't worry about it!

    Edit: Here's the other thread--

    400 Wh/mi consumption on Model S?
     
  3. Nbryce

    Nbryce Member

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    I think so. I also have a 60 that we got in August. Since winter started my wh/mile has really increased. During the warmer months I was sub 300. Now I'm closer to 350 (400 this morning during 35 degrees and rain on I-5). I really try not to worry about it since most days I only drive 50-60 miles and if It's a road trip there are plenty of Superchargers to help me out.
     
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  4. dknisely

    dknisely Member

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    Thanks for the quick replies, @Andyw2100 and Nbryce! I won't sweat it then. I didn't think about new tires having a bit more rolling resistance. I was also seeing the cold tire pressure warnings (which went away when the tires warm up). On delivery, they always showed as 40 psi exactly, even when cold, but today they were showing 37-38 cold and 40 warm. They probably need a couple more psi added.
     
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  5. Lena's driver

    Lena's driver New Member

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    I'll share my experience driving my wife's new 60D last nite on first "road trip" in Quebec. We rode out 100km in blowing snow to dinner and returned early morning. Temps were -2C outbound and about 0C inbound. Precharged to 100% and road down to 54% outbound at 90-100km/hr.

    Plugged in 110v for 5 hours at destination (+30km earned).

    Departed from dinner with roughly 63% displayed and estimating 28% at arrival home. Upon reaching home 15% on battery. This is consistent with outbound performance (48% vs 46%) especially considering car sat out at -1C at destination. The terrain is generally flat. We used heated seats say 20 minutes total. Running 19" Nokapalittas that are brand new, with excellent handling.

    So, while range isn't nearly what Tesla's website claims for these conditions, it does appear consistent with the other reports I'm reading. Happy we live in Quebec now where electrification is populating villages across the province with power points so this isn't really a worry. We had 2 fast D.C. CHAdeMO adaptors on this route :) if we had felt the need.
     
  6. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    Yup, the tires being a bit low would also negatively impact your efficiency.

    Good luck!
     
  7. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    So the new tires would impact your efficiency too, and the fact that they are snow tires would further negatively impact it. My wh/mi seems to go up 20-30 wh/mi whenever we switch to the snow tires.
     
  8. Boatguy

    Boatguy Member

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    - Cold weather (3C) probably lowers your range by 10%, but mostly by reducing the available kWh's. Since you're starting in winter it will go up in the spring.

    - Your 90% charged rated range will drop about 4% in the first six months, not clear why because this did not happen in my BMW i3 EV, but this is pretty consistent across Tesla's.

    - On your next trip of at least 50-70miles, reset Trip A, and make note of the rated miles on the dash at the start and end, then divide the RM change into the kWh's used and determine the rate as which it drops rated miles (my S90D is about 273Wh / rated mile). Figure out what your number actually is and then you can predict your real range. For example if you're consuming 320Wh/mi, but your car loses a rated mile of range for every 275, then you're going to get about 275/320 = 86% of the range shown in the dash. So if the dash says 200RM, you're good for about 172 odometer miles. Just an example, YMMV!

    Enjoy the new car!
     
  9. DB 2

    DB 2 Member

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    If you are on the same all-season Goodyears that I got in July, I would check the door jam for the recommended psi. Mine is 45, and my car was also delivered closer to 40. I get better ride and better range after I raised the pressure to 45 cold.
     
  10. dknisely

    dknisely Member

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    Good tip! Thanks.
     
  11. weradln

    weradln Member

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    I also have a new 60D and went for my very first jaunt today. Using Michelin ICE-X snow tires inflated to 45psi. 54mi each way, 42F temp. Got 314 Wh/Mile at 70MPH gaining 1,116' and into an approx 12MPH headwind, on the return drove at 75MPH and got 240 Wh/Mile. So averages out to 279Wh/Mile.

    FWIW Am using TeslaFi to auto log all the data.
     
  12. Lena's driver

    Lena's driver New Member

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    Thanks for the calculation tips. Will watch this.
     
  13. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    I would check the TIRES for the recommended PSI.

    Thank you kindly.
     
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  14. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    Well, then you would be doing it wrong.


    (I added the bold below.)
    --
    How To Check Your Car's Tire Pressure and Inflate Tires | Edmunds

    Checking Your Tire Pressure

    Here's how to check the pressure in your tires with the least amount of muss and fuss.

    1. Buy a digital tire gauge and keep it in the car. (This will only set you back about $10.) Consider buying a small notebook that you can use to record your tire pressure and, later, your increased fuel economy.
    2. Find the tire pressure level required for your car. This information is usually on a yellow sticker in the doorjamb on the driver side (and it is also contained in the owner's manual). It might call for different pressure levels for the back tires and the front tires.
    3. Check the pressure when the tires are cold. Tires heat up as they drive. They take about a half hour to cool down. Or you can just check the tires first thing in the morning.
    4. Unscrew the valve cap and set it to the side or in a pocket where you won't lose it.
    5. Press the tire gauge onto the valve stem. There might be a slight hiss as you press down on the valve stem and again as you release it. You only need to do this for a second or two, long enough to get an accurate reading.
    6. Read the tire pressure on the digital gauge. You might consider writing down the pressure of the tires as you go around the car. You can refer to this when you fill up the tires.

    Now you can compare the tire pressure readings you got with the specified amount called for by the manufacturer (on the doorjamb or in the manual). If the level of pressure in your tires is below the specified amount, you need to fill the tires with air.
     
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  15. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Wow 40 psi? That is too low. I thought it should be 45. I normally keep it at 47. Low tire pressure is a range killer
     
  16. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    How does the car manufacturer know the characteristics of the the tires I happen to have installed on the car?

    Thank you kindly.
     
  17. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    I provided valuable information, from a reputable source, to offset the misinformation that you provided, and you "disagree?" Then you have the audacity to say "Thank you kindly?"

    I am not an expert on tires, which is why I provided the information from Edmund's--an extremely reliable and well-respected source. I looked it up because just about everyone here, except for you, acknowledges that the correct method to use is to check what the car maker prints on instructions on the door jam. If I had to guess, I would guess that the car maker is assuming you put tires on the car that meet their specifications, and that you have not put wheelbarrow tires on your car, but that is just a guess. What is not a guess is that the information you provided you have not backed up, and the information I provided I have.

    So...go ahead and disagree with this post too if that's what you want to do. But please don't "Thank Me Kindly" after you do.

    If you want to have an intelligent discussion about this, find a reputable source that says you should ignore the car manufacturer's recommendation and use the tire manufacturer's recommendation instead.
     
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  18. Dstrohl

    Dstrohl Member

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    The info on the door jam is definitive for the tires that come with the car, and replacing them with any tires met the cars' specifications would have the same pressure requirements.
    Even if you change tire sizes though, the number doesn't change very much, at least back in 2013 the difference between the 21" and 19" tires was only 3 psi (from 45 to 42, Tire pressure) And if you decide to change to tires that are not recommended for your car, then you are on your own to figure it out (and there have been reports of service centers refusing to service cars with aftermarket wheels/tires on them). If you are moving to tires that are significantly different in specifications from the stock ones, you should be aware of the impact and be prepared to figure it out on your own. (here are some conversations about figuring it out, though they don't necessarily agree with each other, so YMMV)
    So... my take on this is... use the door sticker unless you are changing to a different type of wheels that are significantly different in size/shape, in which case put the old ones back and use the door sticker pressure. <grin>.

    Note, I suspect if you are racing, or trying for a distance record you can find different pressures that make enough of a difference to be worth doing (a few percent can win or lose a race or make or break a record) but doing that would require lots of testing and knowledge of the exact environment at the time of use (temp, air pressure, track conditions, etc).
     
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  19. justg0

    justg0 Member

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    I just did a 1000 mile trip recently - I-5, Oregon coast 101, some mountains, snow storm, similar temps over 3 days. Had heat set to 70, both heaters at 3 and heated steering wheel. Drove without trying to save any energy with speeds +10 over speed limit. My average wh/mi for the whole trip was 345. I have new 75D and was able to comfortably make it from one supercharger to another with at least 15 - 20% batter left on each stop. I was very happy with the how the trip went.
     
    • Informative x 2
  20. dknisely

    dknisely Member

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    I have some regrets for not popping for the D for the added range, but I guess an SC trip with a 60 in winter would be very challenging (even though the 60 can charge to 100% at full rate, which is good). Might have to pay for the 75 upgrade before attempting a winter trip. There may not be sufficient range to even make it between SCs.

    Should be OK in the summer, though; there is a huge difference from what I'm hearing. Based on the last 15 or 30 miles of real driving, the estimated range for me here in Seattle at around freezing temperature is less than 100 miles! Yikes. I'm well north of 400 Wh/mile.
     

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