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Really? Is no one talking about the Chevy Bolt?

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
This isn't exactly a fair statement since the Roadster was made in such low quantity, there are minimal economies of scale involved. Just the labor to make a few hundred Roadster packs per year probably comes close to $12K. They would have to be hand-built at that quantity.
I'm not talking about the costs for the Roadster pack. Even the Model 3 pack still costs more than $12k if you want a replacement pack (which is refurb). Tesla haven't quite reached their original goal yet in terms of lower battery costs.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
Not really. For awhile, I'd see a fair amount of TV press coverage about all Bolts being recalled for fire risk, esp. on financial news (e.g. CNBC).
That coverage only came way late when the recall was expanded significantly. While the issue was ongoing, they downplayed it as best as possible. The approach to that is in stark contrast to Tesla where they make a big deal of fires even when there is no evidence it's related to a detect.

Examples here:

I don't believe they even covered the Bolt recall when it launched in April in their video coverage.
 
That coverage only came way late when the recall was expanded significantly. While the issue was ongoing, they downplayed it as best as possible. The approach to that is in stark contrast to Tesla where they make a big deal of fires even when there is no evidence it's related to a detect.

Examples here:

I don't believe they even covered the Bolt recall when it launched in April in their video coverage.
The original recall was in Nov 2020 that covered only all '17 to '18 Bolts + subset of '19 which only included Korean made batteries.

Then the recall expanded to ALL Bolts ever made on 8/20/21 (General Motors to Recall Additional Bolt EVs).

GM issues second recall of Chevy Bolt EVs after vehicles catch fire is from July 23, 2021.
General Motors expanding recall of the Chevy Bolt - from Aug 20, 2021
GM extends shutdown of Bolt EV production amid recall and battery fires - Sept 9, 2021
GM advising some Bolt EV owners to park 50 feet away from other cars in case of fire - Sept 15, 2021
Jay Leno says, 'the electric car is here to stay,' despite Chevy Bolt recalls - Sept 16, 2021
GM to begin fixing Chevy Bolt EVs, recalled due to fire risk, as soon as next month - Sept 20, 2021

These are a few I just quickly found from a Google search. I can't catalog all their TV mentions since they broadcast something most of the day.
 
I don't believe they even covered the Bolt recall when it launched in April in their video coverage.
Not sure what April you're talking about.

GM recalling Chevrolet Bolt EVs due to fire risks amid federal probe is from Nov 13, 2020. This was the date of the initial Bolt battery fire recall (all '17 and '18 + subset of '19), see 2017 CHEVROLET BOLT 4 DR FWD | NHTSA.

My '19 has a US-made pack and US-made packs were originally thought to be safe until we got news on 8/20/21.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
Replacement prices aren't completely indicative of the actual costs. Their price is likely to be market driven and there isn't much of a market for them at present. It's hard to know what the cost to Tesla for production batteries are.
But Tesla's goal was a retail cost of $12k for the pack or even lower (was the goal even for the S, link below). This would address concerns by buyers if they ever have to replace a pack out of warranty. They haven't reached that point. It's irrelevant to the buyer if Tesla's internal costs are lower if it costs the buyer more than $12k for a refurb pack even for parts only.

Model S battery replacement $12,000?
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
The original recall was in Nov 2020 that covered only all '17 to '18 Bolts + subset of '19 which only included Korean made batteries.

Then the recall expanded to ALL Bolts ever made on 8/20/21 (General Motors to Recall Additional Bolt EVs).

GM issues second recall of Chevy Bolt EVs after vehicles catch fire is from July 23, 2021.
General Motors expanding recall of the Chevy Bolt - from Aug 20, 2021
GM extends shutdown of Bolt EV production amid recall and battery fires - Sept 9, 2021
GM advising some Bolt EV owners to park 50 feet away from other cars in case of fire - Sept 15, 2021
Jay Leno says, 'the electric car is here to stay,' despite Chevy Bolt recalls - Sept 16, 2021
GM to begin fixing Chevy Bolt EVs, recalled due to fire risk, as soon as next month - Sept 20, 2021

These are a few I just quickly found from a Google search. I can't catalog all their TV mentions since they broadcast something most of the day.
I'm talking specifically about their TV mentions, given that's where their prime coverage would be. Their youtube channel has it linked. Obviously for articles, you can find more links, but how upfront it is will vary (would it be buried in some other section of news). For the Bolt issue, which has a much larger impact, they get people onboard to downplay things. While for Tesla even for a single fire they do a deep report on it even with no details yet. Ironically they mention specifically the phenomenon of too much coverage of Tesla fires disproportionate to the actual prevalence:
 
I'm talking specifically about their TV mentions, given that's where their prime coverage would be. Their youtube channel has it linked. Obviously for articles, you can find more links, but how upfront it is will vary (would it be buried in some other section of news). For the Bolt issue, which has a much larger impact, they get people onboard to downplay things. While for Tesla even for a single fire they do a deep report on it even with no details yet. Ironically they mention specifically the phenomenon of too much coverage of Tesla fires disproportionate to the actual prevalence:
Again, it's hard for me to catalog and categorize each mention of Bolt recall and fires on CNBC but ok, if you want go by CNBC's YouTube coverage, here are some beyond the ones you pointed to:

I did watch
recently and at 2:30 they allude to the recall of all of them and the $1.8 billion charge GM booked.

Also, when GM reported earnings a few months ago, the ~$800 million charge back then for Bolt recall (e.g. GM’s earnings dragged down by Chevy Bolt recall – TechCrunch) was definitely part of the news.

BTW, now that I think about April, if you're talking about April 2021, the "final remedy" that turned out to be not so final came out end of April 2021. We have Fire recalls summary and timeline to track some of the events.

Some of the paranoia has gotten so bad, we've gotten numerous reports of parking lots (via signage and emails) and even someone who works at a FANG company banning Bolts from parking there. Here are a few examples:

I'd seen similar reports at SFO, DTW airports and one at a place in Century City, CA. Besides the one person who works at a FANG company that's a victim, I recall hearing of a few others. They have a pretty good reason to seek buyback or a rental/loaner.
 
Last edited:

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
Again, it's hard for me to catalog and categorize each mention of Bolt recall and fires on CNBC but ok, if you want go by CNBC's YouTube coverage, here are some beyond the ones you pointed to:

I did watch
recently and at 2:30 they allude to the recall of all of them and the $1.8 billion charge GM booked.

Also, when GM reported earnings a few months ago, the ~$800 million charge back then for Bolt recall (e.g. GM’s earnings dragged down by Chevy Bolt recall – TechCrunch) was definitely part of the news.
All those are after things blew up, which was my point. AFAIK they didn't have coverage of the individual Bolt fires before the recall, nor in the earlier stages before it was expanded. For Tesla though, they have no qualms mentioning things even if it's a single car where there are few details on the fire.
BTW, now that I think about April, if you're talking about April 2021, the "final remedy" that turned out to be not so final came out end of April 2021. We have Fire recalls summary and timeline to track some of the events.
Yeah, that was what I was what I was thinking of in April. I just remembered that was when officially they had the recall solution (which of course turned out not to be, but this is in hindsight, we didn't know that back then). The earlier notices, they didn't have a remedy figured yet.
Some of the paranoia has gotten so bad, we've gotten numerous reports of parking lots (via signage and emails) and even someone who works at a FANG company banning Bolts from parking there. Here are a few examples:

I'd seen similar reports at SFO, DTW airports and one at a place in Century City, CA. Besides the one person who works at a FANG company that's a victim, I recall hearing of a few others. They have a pretty good reason to seek buyback or a rental/loaner.
Yeah, I saw those reports too. There was also some confusion from the reporting and communication of GM about parking 50 feet from other cars (not sure if GM walked back from that), which is an obvious deal breaker for a lot more people (even those that could deal with the garage/charging restrictions).
 

usna92

On order LR3 - Midnight Silver - Black -18"
Sep 3, 2021
90
61
Snoqualmie, WA
All those are after things blew up, which was my point. AFAIK they didn't have coverage of the individual Bolt fires before the recall, nor in the earlier stages before it was expanded. For Tesla though, they have no qualms mentioning things even if it's a single car where there are few details on the fire.

Yeah, that was what I was what I was thinking of in April. I just remembered that was when officially they had the recall solution (which of course turned out not to be, but this is in hindsight, we didn't know that back then). The earlier notices, they didn't have a remedy figured yet.

Yeah, I saw those reports too. There was also some confusion from the reporting and communication of GM about parking 50 feet from other cars (not sure if GM walked back from that), which is an obvious deal breaker for a lot more people (even those that could deal with the garage/charging restrictions).
Trust me. I am watching all of this like a hawk. I have been emailing the GM Regional Dealership representative every two weeks. The latest is that they will be updating the recall shortly dividing the cars into VIN with expected immediate (or near immediate) replacements, and the rest of us, that they will get new software installed while they make a bunch more batteries. They will need to do something because they last time they tried the software route it didn't work, which prompted the latest round of fires. There are just not enough sensors in the Bolt battery to detect the localized conditions that lead to the thermal runaway (unless they figured out something new in the last month, but I suspect not...) They restarted the production line, which makes think I might see about them buying back my 2021 (with 1K miles on it, which was the swap I did for my 2019 affected by the first recall) and swapping for a 2022 with the new process battery. I guess we will see what the expected mitigations after the recall is updated and whether or not my car is in the good VIN batch or Bad VIN batch. Not sure which one is worse to be honest.
 
not enough sensors in the Bolt battery to detect the localized conditions that lead to the thermal runaway
This makes sense. Tesla had the same problem with the early Roadsters (and probably later S3XY as well). Their solution was to cycle coolant through the gaps between all of their stacked cylindrical cells to ensure that the temperature of all the cells was the same. That way a few sensors could handle a lot of cells.
Of course a single bad cell could still go rogue and be missed but, apparently, that hasn't been a huge problem.
Klakring?
 
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,203
7,156
Los Altos, CA
Interesting that the settlement GM reached appears to be with LG Electronics Inc. and not LG Energy Solution Inc. Why is the liability not following the business unit that actually produced the faulty cells? I have not followed the actual structure of the spin-out of the battery business from LG Electronics.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: ItsNotAboutTheMoney
I started 2021 with two 2017 Bolts and now have none. One was sold to a private party in February and GM bought the other one back last month. They were good fun EVs. LG really screwed the pooch on this and soured any consideration of any EV with LG batteries for me. Between the Kona and Bolt recalls, it is clear that the pouch design and manufacturing process that LG uses can lead to a small but catastrophic number of battery failures. LG batteries are what caused me to not consider the Mach E or the ID4. Tesla's range and battery design is what brought to the brand after years of railing against the M3/MY dashboard. I'm loving my M3LR and I'm sure I will also love the MYLR that should arrive in Q4. Not sure if I will be able to trust batteries with the LG pouch design until they get 5+ years of safe use in the real world.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
These are the procedures for dealers to swap out the bad packs.

I've only had a chance to quickly skim. One is for 2017 to 2019 Bolts. The other is for 2020 to 2022 EV and EUV.
Both seem to describe only the battery pack replacement procedure, but for the newer ones I remember them planning to do module replacements, so perhaps there will be other documents for that? Or have they changed their plans and are just going to the locations swap the packs completely?
 
but for the newer ones I remember them planning to do module replacements, so perhaps there will be other documents for that? Or have they changed their plans and are just going to the locations swap the packs completely?
You are correct on the first point. That was what GM said for '20 to '22. See Chevy expands recall to include through 2022 chevy bolts....

I don't know on the latter. I've been too busy w/work to look.

That said, the original plans/promise for '17 to '19 was also to swap all the modules and this guy even got invited to New pilot program for quickly replacing all battery cells which abruptly hit a dead stop due to the 8/20/21 news (all Bolts recalled, GM couldn't ensure that LG was shipping "defect-free" batteries, etc.) Perhaps GM will for simplicity just have dealers swap whole packs right now and do refurbishment (e.g. removing old modules, putting new ones in used casings + other electronics, wiring, etc.) at their factories/depots?
 
A few folks at Post when you are Notified to have your Battery Replaced and Bolt FB groups have been pinged to get their packs replaced. Post when you are Notified to have your Battery Replaced has a pic of the crates the packs come in.

And, unfortunately, I received an email on Friday at work "asking us" to not bring our Bolts to properties of my work "until the recall is completed/the process in place to fix this". I elaborated bit more and responded to some posts on this at Bolt Parking Only (which has a goofy name).

I spent about an hour typing up a response. It's not like I have another car.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,033
7,827
A few folks at Post when you are Notified to have your Battery Replaced and Bolt FB groups have been pinged to get their packs replaced. Post when you are Notified to have your Battery Replaced has a pic of the crates the packs come in.

And, unfortunately, I received an email on Friday at work "asking us" to not bring our Bolts to properties of my work "until the recall is completed/the process in place to fix this". I elaborated bit more and responded to some posts on this at Bolt Parking Only (which has a goofy name).

I spent about an hour typing up a response. It's not like I have another car.
Ouch, hopefully you get a more reasonable response from work. To be fair to the Bolt, there are plenty of ICE cars that may be under similar recall and you don't typically see this kind of response from locations.
 
Ouch, hopefully you get a more reasonable response from work. To be fair to the Bolt, there are plenty of ICE cars that may be under similar recall and you don't typically see this kind of response from locations.
Exactly. In my email, I pointed them to numerous examples of non-EVs being recalled for fires while turned off (e.g. at Bolt Parking Only) and whether we've banned all of those?

And, I pointed them to page 3 of https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/...nd-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf which means about 500 highway vehicle fires occurred each day in 2018.

I did mention to them I began the buyback process about a month ago but I have no guarantee they won't deny me nor do I know for sure what they'll offer me, if anything. And, I don't have any ETA. It's not like GM wants to make the process fast or friction free. Having it be slow == stemming the rate of bleeding.

But there's also the prob of getting a replacement non-Bolt EV that isn't overpriced (new or used) in short order due to the crazy new and used car supply situation. I prefer to stick w/BEVs.
 

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