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Rear Drive Unit Failed

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But you also know about early model S owners that had to have like 3+ drive unit replacements right?

The Model 3 is a clean sheet design using everything Tesla learned from the Model S and Model X. You will note that drive unit failures have gone down with each new model and is now the failure rate is far below the average fossil car drivetrain.

The big benefit is after 250,000 miles where fossil cars become increasingly unserviceable. Electronic drives tend to fail early in life if they are going to fail at all.
 
Why? Do you know of ANY non-Tesla car, gas or electric, that has an unlimited mile drivetrain warranty?

I didn't think so. But Tesla is known for having top-tier warranties. The LR Model 3 has an 8 year/120,000 mile drivetrain warranty (including the battery). I don't know of any warranty, from any competitor (gas or electric), that is better than that.

So it's curious why this doesn't inspire confidence. Unless you just want to spread negativity about Tesla in general.
I’m aware of only one other car company with unlimited mileage warranty and that’s the late model mazda’s????
 
I've installed Audio upgrades on plenty of cars. It won't impact another electric portion of the car. The only way I can see is if one of the electric leads came loose and touched a metal body part. Perhaps the spike can cause some damange. This too is a long shot. The only way really would be a lead from a capacitor touching the car body.
 
So with around 7600 miles on the clock on my P3D+, the rear drive unit has failed.

Worth noting that I took delivery during 3rd quarter in 2018 (THE quarter when Tesla was pushing HARD to crank these out), AND I have self-installed an aftermarket sub/amp system. For what its worth, I've installed audio systems in my own cars for the last 8 cars and while that doesn't make me a pro, I also like to think I did it right/clean.

The short: rear drive unit failed, they're replacing the entire unit, i feel l

Full story:
My wife charged up to 100% on this trip as she was going far. When the battery was at around 56%, she felt what she described as the rear "dragging". During this time a message pops up saying "Rear drive unit problem, car coming to a complete stop" or something along those lines (i wasn't there). The car eventually comes to a complete stop in the middle of the road at 9pm. The message to try exiting and re-entering comes up (and doesn't work). Car won't shift into D or R. Wife calls Tesla support to explain the situation, and was told to call 911 (really?). I call Tesla myself to explain the situation, and they say they won't have a tow truck for the next 4-5 hours. While I'm trying to work out a tow with Tesla, I get a call from the wife because the police showed up and want to push the car off the road. I hang up with Tesla and walk through the steps with the wife to get it into transport mode. The car had trouble staying in transport mode, moving about a foot before the car shuts down (black screen, rear motors lock up). It took several reboots and putting into transport mode before they're able to get the car off the road. I couldn't have my wife sitting 150+ miles away by herself in the night for 4-5 hours, so I decided we'd use our our tow services with AAA to get the car to her friends house 40 miles away. The next morning, Tesla towed the car to the nearest SC. To which I got a loaner and was explained that the rear drive unit failed, it's rare, it's a big job, they'll need the car for a while as they want to monitor it after replacement, and that they'd let me know when its ready. This happened thursday night, today is Tuesday. Still waiting. They did not mention anything about the aftermarket sub or whether or not it had anything to do with the failure.

Does this change my love for the car? NO! I love it.

BUt it does leave me wanting more out of Tesla's support. I don't think tesla's response of calling 911 was appropriate. I also feel like the claims about having redundancy with having a dual motor car didn't work out here. And the fact that it kept coming OUT of transport mode can be frustrating/dangerous.

Anyways, just wanted to share as my googling of this issue has me concluded that while it has happened, it's not a super common thing.


I know your pain, but it’s all good now. Currently at 13,618 miles with no problems.
Model 3: Breakdowns
 
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There are only two bearings which might wear out, not that hard to replace them. More likely is a failure of an electronic component in the inverter, which should also not be that difficult to swap out, or just replace the inverter as a whole unit.

Can you provide a link of when such bearings have been replaced by Tesla and the price of such a repair?
Quite often if a bearing goes, a lot can go with it. Depends on how early it's caught.

I agree, the Model 3 is nicely designed to "swap" out the Inverter etc. Because everything except the motor and battery are on a large complex modular sub assembly. That piece would probably cost $10k or more to "buy new retail". However, what they may likely do is swap in a refurb and get the old one refurbed on the bench. That is what they are doing on battery warranties. They don't give you a new battery. They give you a refurb.

A Tesla Model S door handle is a $1000, what do think Tesla would charge for the drive electrons module? Even if it was a swap for refurb?

Fact is, nothing is cheap about Tesla's. And we really have no idea what the costs will be long term or the reliability. Model S/X certainly have seen bright spots and dark spots. We all hope the Model 3 will be better.

A friend has a 2014 Model S with 120K miles. He has spent $10k in repairs. 3 Door Handles ($1K each), Main Display ($3K), Emergency Brake Caliper Seized ($1.3K) etc. He was dumb not to get extended warranty and still loves the car and will buy another but he WILL buy the extended warranty next time. He is on his 3rd Drive unit (covered under warranty) !! How many ICE car owners do you personally know of with it's 3rd engine? He'd be out of Warranty on a Model 3 now.

I have not spent $10K in repairs in the last 20 years on two family cars 600K+ miles (ran two over 200K). I always get extended warranty. My Jeep has unlimited miles lifetime warranty for $2500 ($100 deductible). P.S. I have not made a single claim on any of the extended warranties. They never broke. Ugh.

I bought the car knowing all this going in. No need to sugar coat it.
 
The dragging part before total failure is interesting.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is a 3 phase induction motor. I think there are three things I can think of that might cause dragging. 1) a bearing failure. 2) A winding failure. 3) An inverter partial failure. I've seen the first 2 occur in motors and the last one in a power inverter.

We've all probably seen a bearing failure. I'm thinking noise at first. Then as it starts to cease up motor drag and overheating, and finally possible gear failure as ball bearings go flying out.

As for a winding failure I had a table saw motor fail that way. It behaved very strangely until it finally failed for good. I first suspected the soft start motor controller, but after replacing that component it didn't fix the problem. Only replacing the motor's induction windings fixed the problem which surprised me as being a rare thing to fail. The defect in the end turned out to be improper and inadiquite physical support and wrapping of the windings to support the physical forces of starting up and running a heavy blade, i.e. the wires that produce the high magnetic fields were bending back and forth with the AC current. Normally motor windings are tightly wrapped to each other, or to some sort of frame to keep them motionless, i.e. from vibrating and/or thus bending with each cycle of the current.

In order to produce the huge amounts of torque in the Tesla, tremendous physical forces are put on the wires generating that force. This can cause tiny physical motion in these wires, and the motion in time can wear off parts of the wire-to-wire insulation, thus causing shorts between loops. This won't stall the motor completely, but will cause it to loose power, heat more and vibrate more. At first only one phase would be affected.

Normally in a three phase motor constant torque is produced so there is very little vibration in the rotor. But because you will have at least 3 separate windings, if one of them has a short between wire loops it will cause vibration in the torque output and excess heating, and roughness as the short at first can come and go with force. And this could cause additional issues like early bearing failure, and/or other windings to in time fail.

In the case of my table saw motor failure, Bosch had not properly wraped and glued the windings tightly to each other leaving them to vibrate somewhat with with the ac current. The damage didn't show up for a couple of years.

Finally if one of the three power supplies (choppers) partially fails, this would also cause torque vibration, as one of the phases would not be balanced with the other two. I don't know how their switching electronics is designed, but I'm guessing that for each phase there are paralleled power components (think paralleled transistor switches, though the silicon is much more advanced than that, probably using some sort of a FET (Field Effect Transistor)) in order to get the high power needed. (Someone please fill me in if you know how this is actually done.) From my experience repairing hundreds of heavy power supplies for main frames years ago, I imagine that if one of those switches fails, that the overall switch might be able to keep working, but not smoothly.
 
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I’m aware of only one other car company with unlimited mileage warranty and that’s the late model mazda’s????

My Jeep has it. It is extra (around $2500), and has a deductible. They just stopped offering it.
BTW, when the cost of a repair exceeds the value of the vehicle, they hand you a check for the value and say we are done.

It is also not transferable in most states.
 
Can you provide a link of when such bearings have been replaced by Tesla and the price of such a repair?
Quite often if a bearing goes, a lot can go with it. Depends on how early it's caught.
Tesla probably just replaces the whole motor, then sends the old one to be repaired, and that one would end up in another vehicle. Of course a catastrophic bearing failure could cause more damage but in most cases bearings wear gradually and start making noise so they will be caught before complete failure. Relatively low volume Model S/X parts can't be compared to what will eventually be very high volume Model 3 parts, so costs should be lower.
 
Tesla probably just replaces the whole motor, then sends the old one to be repaired, and that one would end up in another vehicle. Of course a catastrophic bearing failure could cause more damage but in most cases bearings wear gradually and start making noise so they will be caught before complete failure. Relatively low volume Model S/X parts can't be compared to what will eventually be very high volume Model 3 parts, so costs should be lower.

Possibly. But most all swaps have been done under warranty.

We basically have no idea what Tesla would charge out of warranty.

I repeat, nothing is cheap with Tesla's. Just because it's easier for them will they pass ALL the savings on to you?

I think a lot depends on how healthy the company is by time it matters. More than how "easy" it is to do the work. Also failure rates. If they get swamped they won't be able to eat as much.

High Volume is great, but they also had to reduce cost.
 
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The dragging part before total failure is interesting.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is a 3 phase induction motor. I think there are three things I can think of that might cause dragging. 1) a bearing failure. 2) A winding failure. 3) An inverter partial failure. I've seen the first 2 occur in motors and the last one in a power inverter.

We've all probably seen a bearing failure. I'm thinking noise at first. Then as it starts to cease up motor drag and overheating, and finally possible gear failure as ball bearings go flying out.

As for a winding failure I had a table saw motor fail that way. It behaved very strangely until it finally failed for good. I first suspected the soft start motor controller, but after replacing that component it didn't fix the problem. Only replacing the motor's induction windings fixed the problem which surprised me as being a rare thing to fail. The defect in the end turned out to be improper and inadiquite physical support and wrapping of the windings to support the physical forces of starting up and running a heavy blade, i.e. the wires that produce the high magnetic fields were bending back and forth with the AC current. Normally motor windings are tightly wrapped to each other, or to some sort of frame to keep them motionless, i.e. from vibrating and/or thus bending with each cycle of the current.

In order to produce the huge amounts of torque in the Tesla, tremendous physical forces are put on the wires generating that force. This can cause tiny physical motion in these wires, and the motion in time can wear off parts of the wire-to-wire insulation, thus causing shorts between loops. This won't stall the motor completely, but will cause it to loose power, heat more and vibrate more. At first only one phase would be affected.

Normally in a three phase motor constant torque is produced so there is very little vibration in the rotor. But because you will have at least 3 separate windings, if one of them has a short between wire loops it will cause vibration in the torque output and excess heating, and roughness as the short at first can come and go with force. And this could cause additional issues like early bearing failure, and/or other windings to in time fail.

In the case of my table saw motor failure, Bosch had not properly wraped and glued the windings tightly to each other leaving them to vibrate somewhat with with the ac current. The damage didn't show up for a couple of years.

Finally if one of the three power supplies (choppers) partially fails, this would also cause torque vibration, as one of the phases would not be balanced with the other two. I don't know how their switching electronics is designed, but I'm guessing that for each phase there are paralleled power components (think paralleled transistor switches, though the silicon is much more advanced than that, probably using some sort of a FET (Field Effect Transistor)) in order to get the high power needed. (Someone please fill me in if you know how this is actually done.) From my experience repairing hundreds of heavy power supplies for main frames years ago, I imagine that if one of those switches fails, that the overall switch might be able to keep working, but not smoothly.

Front motor is a three phase induction motor.

But this is a rear drive unit failure - the permanent magnet switched reluctance motor. That changes things quite a bit I'd think.
 
I’m aware of only one other car company with unlimited mileage warranty and that’s the late model mazda’s????

Mazda's have only a three-year new car warranty/5-year powertrain /3-year rust perforation/3-year roadside assist. The LR Model 3 powertrain warranty of 8 years/120,000 miles beats that in any scenario where you are not a traveling salesman racking up big freeway miles.

For example, I expect to take at least 10 years to reach 120,000 miles. In 100% of the cases, Mazda's powertrain warranty will be expired in 5 years.
 
Can you provide a link of when such bearings have been replaced by Tesla and the price of such a repair?
Quite often if a bearing goes, a lot can go with it. Depends on how early it's caught.

I agree, the Model 3 is nicely designed to "swap" out the Inverter etc. Because everything except the motor and battery are on a large complex modular sub assembly. That piece would probably cost $10k or more to "buy new retail". However, what they may likely do is swap in a refurb and get the old one refurbed on the bench. That is what they are doing on battery warranties. They don't give you a new battery. They give you a refurb.

A Tesla Model S door handle is a $1000, what do think Tesla would charge for the drive electrons module? Even if it was a swap for refurb?

Fact is, nothing is cheap about Tesla's. And we really have no idea what the costs will be long term or the reliability. Model S/X certainly have seen bright spots and dark spots. We all hope the Model 3 will be better.

A friend has a 2014 Model S with 120K miles. He has spent $10k in repairs. 3 Door Handles ($1K each), Main Display ($3K), Emergency Brake Caliper Seized ($1.3K) etc. He was dumb not to get extended warranty and still loves the car and will buy another but he WILL buy the extended warranty next time. He is on his 3rd Drive unit (covered under warranty) !! How many ICE car owners do you personally know of with it's 3rd engine? He'd be out of Warranty on a Model 3 now.

I have not spent $10K in repairs in the last 20 years on two family cars 600K+ miles (ran two over 200K). I always get extended warranty. My Jeep has unlimited miles lifetime warranty for $2500 ($100 deductible). P.S. I have not made a single claim on any of the extended warranties. They never broke. Ugh.

I bought the car knowing all this going in. No need to sugar coat it.

There are two sealed bearing that support the rotor. Just like in any electric motor ever made these have a duty cycle and service life. Tesla has switched to ceramic as they were having failures, which will makes itself know with growling and vibration. Ignore that for to long and they will seize to the shaft or fly to bits or both. The tiny amount of grease they contain is all they ever get. I have popped the seals off ceramic bearings to renew grease however.
Ceramic bearings life a long life in a dust free high rpm low load environment (lots of drone engines have these). I've serviced a lot of very large motors so how long they will last is anyone's guess. I would think they should go 200,000-300,000 km. Probably worth $30 each.