Rear facing Seat

[Spidy]

See attached picture. I am very passionate about kids and this rear facing seat is just wrong. Look at the attached picture and tell me you'd put your kids lives at risk.

I can play that game, too.

 

[deonb]

Clearly jvs11560 has a negative agenda on those rear facing seats. However, there seems to be no evidence that the kids were sitting there.

Actually from the pictures it's clear the car didn't have a reinforcement bar, and thus no rear facing seats.

 

[Max*]

Rear facing seats are a factory-fitted option only, not available retro-fit, for that very reason.

Actually they are retrofittable now, with the reinforced bumper.

The rest I agree with.

 

[Max*]

Actually from the pictures it's clear the car didn't have a reinforcement bar, and thus no rear facing seats.

I don't know what the reinforcement looks like, but you can see the blue cooler in the floor storage compartment with the "cover" over it showing that the floor area was closed off = no seats being used at the moment.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Actually they are retrofittable now, with the reinforced bumper.

Useful to know, thanks. Outcome is the same then - you buy one, and you get the other, so you make the decision, on that basis, as to whether that you consider it sufficient safety for your kids in the back. Tesla is amongst the safest cars on the road ... I have no idea if the rear facing seats plus reinforcement are more at risk, in a rear-impact crash, than other options - and in particular compared to other brands - but its certainly not a case of "just chuck the kids in the back, I don't care that they are at high risk" as the O/P seemed to be implying.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

As the father of a 7 year old girl, this tragedy makes my heart ache. My deepest condolences to the family. Words cannot even begin to describe.

A couple comments on the rear facing jump seats. I've had them since January 2013 and pay close attention to these type of accidents and spent a great deal of time studying the safety around them.

First and foremost: There is no safe seat in a vehicle when dealing with a drunk or distracted driver piloting a 5700 lbs SUV. None. The fault lays entirely at the hands of that other driver. Period.

Second. The Model S with rear facing seats is designed to withstand an offset rear impact of 55 mph. There are many cases of this proving true, including one rear-ending by a semi. It is nothing like that picture of that old Volvo with no reinforcement at the back. This is the most dangerous form of FUD imaginable, as front and side impacts are far more frequent and far more dangerous. In most circumstances, children are SIGNIFICANTLY safer sitting in rear facing seats. That the Model S allows for children up to 10 years old to remain rear-facing is a significant improvement in passenger safety, not reduction.

Third. Model S with rear facing jump seats does indeed have an additional high strength boron steel bumper reinforcement. Though it should be noted that this is in addition to a metal cross bar connected to two large double-octagonal intrusion beams that is present in all Model S. These are the same type of intrusion beams at the front of the car. This forms an extremely strong rear of the car.

So what happened here? Unfortunately, due to the ride height of the Tahoe and excessive speed, it appears to have jumped up over the back of the Model S and intruded well into the passenger space, both 3rd and 2nd rows, rather than dissipating its crash forces into that rear crash structure.

I lost a colleague at work to a drunk driver a few years ago, and now have to see this. I'm going to go hug my daughter and then find a drunk driver to punch in the face.

 

[Max*]

So what happened here? Unfortunately, due to the ride height of the Tahoe and excessive speed, it appears to have jumped up over the back of the Model S and intruded well into the passenger space, both 3rd and 2nd rows, rather than dissipating its crash forces into that rear crash structure.

This, exactly this.

I talked to my wife about this yesterday... told her about the accident, that a child died while in the middle seats, showed her the picture, and posed the question "are you sure you still want to use the RFS? Sure the bumper reinforcement will help with a regular accident, but when it's a large car, it'll jump over the bumper"

She told me this - "for this type of insane rare accident nothing would've changed. the child died in the middle row, she would've died in the RFS"

 

[bro1999]

This, exactly this.

I talked to my wife about this yesterday... told her about the accident, that a child died while in the middle seats, showed her the picture, and posed the question "are you sure you still want to use the RFS? Sure the bumper reinforcement will help with a regular accident, but when it's a large car, it'll jump over the bumper"

She told me this - "for this type of insane rare accident nothing would've changed. the child died in the middle row, she would've died in the RFS"

I think there's no question that anyone sitting in the RFS in that kind of crash would have perished regardless, but it brings up another question: would the girl have survived if that S was equipped with the extra reinforcement bar that is installed as part of the RFS package, and she was sitting in the 2nd row?

 

[JPP]

Important fact. The injured father in this terrible rear end accident posted that his 2 daughters were not in the 3rd row rear facing seats. Not to derail any discussion about the relative safety of 3rd row seats, but in this tragedy the Tahoe overrode the rear bumper and plowed into the rear lift gate and intruded into the back seat area. No 3rd row seats installed.

 

[Skotty]

The usual structural defense in a car just doesn't work against a high riding monster like a Tahoe. Tesla already has a very safe vehicle, but I wonder if they could improve it even further by using a high strength beam that arches over the passenger compartment from the A pillar all the way back to the end of rear hatch.

 

[Max*]

The usual structural defense in a car just doesn't work against a high riding monster like a Tahoe. Tesla already has a very safe vehicle, but I wonder if they could improve it even further by using a high strength beam that arches over the passenger compartment from the A pillar all the way back to the end of rear hatch.

Like a roll cage?

 

[3s-a-charm]

This is just my opinion. If it saves a parent the loss of a child, I'll have done my job. Today, Monday August 15th 2016 there was a Tesla Model S rear ended on the 405 in Westminster. Unfortunately, there were injuries, and a seven year old girl did not make it. Her 13 year old sister is in the hospital along with their father. I am writing about this because I have 4 children that I love and care for. They are my life. For years, I have been writing about how unsafe I believe the rear facing seats are and warning who ever will listen, not to get a car with them or place kids in them. Although I do not know which seat the child was in, rear facing or backseat, it is clear from the pictures, thet no one could have survived had they been in the rear facing seats. Right now, my thoughts are with the parents, and the grief that they must be going thru.

7-year-old girl dies, 13-year-old in critical condition after 405 freeway crash

Perhaps you should put your efforts into additional campaigning against drunk drivers instead of attacking the safest (or one of the safest) cars on the road.

 

[tinanbran]

Very tragic and yes the attention need to go to fighting drunk driving, completely senseless...

FYI also the family involved made a post here this morning confirming he did NOT have the third row and therefore did not have the reinforced rear.

 

[Skotty]

Like a roll cage?

Yes, basically. In fact, if you watch the reveal video of the Model 3, it kind of looks like they have basically this in the Model 3 design. Might be possible to enhance safety of the S (and maybe X) in this way with a future update.

 

[mrjedistud]

I have the RFS and have had one of my kids sitting back there 2-3 times since I got the car. While I feel that it is safe, there is that small part of me that is concerned. I use the RFS in a pinch when we have an extra passenger but not on a regular basis.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I have the RFS and have had one of my kids sitting back there 2-3 times since I got the car. While I feel that it is safe, there is that small part of me that is concerned. I use the RFS in a pinch when we have an extra passenger but not on a regular basis.

Are you less concerned about getting t-boned or hit head on? Those are far more likely to happen.

 

[bro1999]

Are you less concerned about getting t-boned or hit head on? Those are far more likely to happen.

In this day and age of people playing Pokemon Go while driving and whatnot, oblivious idiots can crash into you from any direction.

 

[Firewired]

From the picture, to me it looks like the suv "rolled over" more than simply hit into the rear of the Model S, possibly lessening the benefit of the rear facing bumper. (Look at the way the rear hatch is folded over on itself, and you can see the rear edge of the intact battery pack on the bottom, with the rear bumper folded down and outward.).

 

[DFibRL8R]

From the picture, to me it looks like the suv "rolled over" more than simply hit into the rear of the Model S, possibly lessening the benefit of the rear facing bumper. (Look at the way the rear hatch is folded over on itself, and you can see the rear edge of the intact battery pack on the bottom, with the rear bumper folded down and outward.).

This was posted in the other thread on this and shows the extent of "override" (not roll over) which occurred.

 

[Firewired]

That is one picture that I didn't see in the original thread. With that height difference, it seems that it is above the level of the bumper and negates a major part of the ability of the rear bumper to absorb the energy of the impact. Instead the energy got transferred to parts of the car which are much less reinforced (rear hatch frame) than the boron steel bumper.