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Rear hatch opening while driving and shattering back window

rush6410

Member
Sep 26, 2016
648
655
Montgomery TX
2016 MX AP2.0. I did a quick test on the OPs scenario. The door and trunk buttons grey out as soon as the car is in motion. I tried to see how slow I could go with the buttons active. It wasn't possible. Always greyed out immediately when the car moved even slightly. So, the answer is clear that you cannot initiate a door or trunk open command when the car is in motion. Then I attempted alternative possible scenarios. Two possible scenarios are: One, the trunk was already open when motion was initiated. This is possible, but, you get very audible and visual warnings on the main display and instrument display. Personally, I consider them adequate if not above industry average. Two, I placed the vehicle in Drive, foot on brake and not in motion. I initiated the open trunk via the main console, then immediately started moving. This again was possible and probably the scenario encountered. But, again, I got the audible and visual warnings. In conclusion, it is not possible to initiate a open trunk command while the vehicle is in motion. Could a bad sensor or hardware issue cause a false indication. Sure. But, this could easily be validated by getting the logs.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,190
mtn view, ca
2016 MX AP2.0. I did a quick test on the OPs scenario. The door and trunk buttons grey out as soon as the car is in motion. .

'grey out' ? are you referring to the touch screen?

isn't this bug about the hardware dongle, with real physical buttons? or, am I mistaken?

edit: it does look like it was about the key fob:

" The key was in my pocket so I did not touch it but I have looked up other cases of this issue and of course Tesla says it was the driver's fault and their data indicates that the owner pressed the key fob etc. Does anyone know how to contact someone at Tesla to see if the issue was truly a phantom pressure on the key fob ..."
 

rush6410

Member
Sep 26, 2016
648
655
Montgomery TX
'grey out' ? are you referring to the touch screen?

isn't this bug about the hardware dongle, with real physical buttons? or, am I mistaken?
The remote followed the same behavior. I didn't include it because it was my understanding the OP initiated from the screen. All of the comments about the remotes where when the vehicle was parked and not in motion. Presses on the remote do and have occurred when in my pocket. But, always in park and not in motion. And, never a FWD, frunk or trunk. Only inadvertent lock or door close. No one has claimed this has occurred in motion other than the OP. Trust me, if this has ever happened to anyone in forum, it would be all over the threads.
 

mahModX

Member
May 14, 2018
12
4
Philadelphia
I took the car in to the service center and reported the incident. The service personnel said we would need an exact time stamp for them to find the incident. I knew within half an hour but they said that there would be so much code for them to read through that it would make it impossible to find this. Shouldn't this be something they want to verify to make sure there is no error in the car? Tesla provides some of the worst customer service and Devon service center is the worst. I know they want to make money but don't they want to retain customers?The cost of repair has now increased by several hundred dollars because it is Tesla with no competition for body work or repair. Would a collision generate some kind of mark in the code? I know what some of the commenters are saying but I don't understand how the hatch opened as I drove it into the garage. If it was opened already it would not have hit from below and should have hit from the top of the hatch. The mark is on the top of the rear spoiler. Tesla service center seems to have no desire to investigate how the accident occurred.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,190
mtn view, ca
it sounds like they are 'deflecting' you.

if the logfiles are still there (they can and do rollover since storage space is not infinite) they should be able to search thru for events that pertain to this, such as fob button press, time the vehicle started motion, etc.

someone can do it, but likely its more for the software devs and test guys; not sure how good the service centers are in searching thru logs. they should be expert at it, but if they have a we-dont-care attitude, you may be at a dead end.

I could also interpret this stonewalling as knowledge that they do have a serious flaw.

it should be on them to prove you didn't press the button while in motion. since, if the button DID get 'butt dialed' and the safety lock-out didn't work, that's a p1 bug right there.

I don't have an X - I'm a m3 user so I dont have experience with this model. I cant say for sure if a fob would be 100% locked out from doing 'bad things' when vehicle is in motion, I'm just going on your word that you didn't do anything on the touch screen and the only event that could have happened is the fob. let me ask, are you sure there was no chance that a phone 'button' was pressed, from the app, that could have triggered this? I think other posters have said that the phone and main mcu screen have enough protection that they won't let the user click on things that should be disabled (greyed out). a key fob with physical buttons does not have modality to be 'greyed out' but upon rf reception, the event should be ignored if the vehicle is moving.

you should force the issue, somehow, to at least get a printable version of the logs, during your start-end timeframe.

I don't know if anyone can force tesla to release logs to customers, even for their own cars. wonder if that needs legal pressure? sad that it might have to get to that, but this story of 'needing an exact time' is pure bull-cookies.
 
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mahModX

Member
May 14, 2018
12
4
Philadelphia
Thanks for the information but since I have a Model 3 and Model X I usually keep the the phone key for the model 3 so I could not have pushed the button on the phone. If the hatch was open and unlatched it still had to open further as I drove the car into the garage. It is obvious from the paint mark that the hatch opened and hit the overhang. There is no paint on the any surface off the spoiler but the very top of it. This service center seems to have no interest in customer service.
 

ElectricSteve

Village idiot
Dec 11, 2014
330
274
Switzerland
The service personnel said we would need an exact time stamp for them to find the incident. I knew within half an hour but they said that there would be so much code for them to read through that it would make it impossible to find this.
That is actually true.
They REALLY need to narrow it down as much as possible because the logfiles are insanely detailed and therefore large. They are insanely large on purpose because as a troubleshooter, you want as much information as possible. Logfiles that simply say "something went wrong" are not helping anyone. I think you are underestimating what we are talking about. Thousands of lines of log-entries from a multitude of computers and processes (read, a whole bunch of large logfile at the same time) and they need to correlate things like "what a specific sensor measured, correlate that to the latch mechanism of the trunk and and and and. I think/hope you get the idea.

I'm in the same spot but instead of working with cars, I work on high-end storage systems and I go nuts if somebody wants my help and all I get is "hmmm it was an hour ago". What am I? A rainbow farting golden egg laying donkey-cross-bred-unicorn ??

Shouldn't this be something they want to verify to make sure there is no error in the car?
Absolutely. That is why those logfiles are insanely large. But this is a curse at the same time. They really want to help you but you have to throw them a bone and be as specific as you can.
If you cannot remember the time + - a few minutes, it's almost impossible to find any helpful.

To summarize: Tesla is not "unwilling to help you" but you have to give them something to work with. If you can't be more specific, and that's not you fault by the way, then they simply can't help you. They really need a certain level of detail from you.

If you still think "no, bad Tesla" after what I and Linux-works have written, then sorry but then you simply don't want to understand and then the conversation ends.

because it is Tesla with no competition for body work or repair. Would a collision generate some kind of mark in the code?
In Switzerland, there are many non-Tesla affiliated, but fully Tesla certified 3rd party body shops. But trust me, the repair bills won't be far apart if you get quotes from several of them because the parts cost the same to them (sourced from Tesla). So I choose convenience and choose one near by. They've done a good job in the past (which I find more important).
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,190
mtn view, ca
if a user wanted to make sense of some vendor's logfiles, SURE, that might be a bit of effort (assuming they are not just logging ascii, which would make life simple).

if these are syslog style files in ascii (I do know that some cars have that; I can't speak about tesla, though) then you simply remove the noise (ordinary events) and look for special things. like a fob button press or the can or lin message (or even ethernet) that corresponds.

you don't create logfiles unless you plan to PARSE them. often, you parse into an sql like db and then do queries. sheesh, its what I and my co-workers often do and you can search up and down pretty easily that way.

I'm still highly doubting that its 'hard' or even takes a lot of time to zero on on this event. I don't care if its thousands of lines. there's a thing called python (or perl if you are old, lol) that I'm TOLD can handle sequential files pretty well ;)

in networking, you sink all the syslogs to a server cluster and its sorted by time, so all info is merged. a car is a moving datacenter, these days, and it would be weird if tesla does not have a 'logfile merge' ability to see things across their systems in the car, in time-sorted order.

this is not rocket science, people. I would not apologize for tesla if they are balking at looking at their OWN logfiles. wow.
 

Batt Car

Executive, engineer, entrepreneur, author, dad.
Oct 1, 2018
126
102
West Chester PA
Of course when you know it is the OPs fault you can simple ignore this level of Bu****it and focus on the real work Tesla developers and engineers need to work on. Sheesh.

You won't log an error that didn't happen. No matter how hard you try.
 

mahModX

Member
May 14, 2018
12
4
Philadelphia
Of course when you know it is the OPs fault you can simple ignore this level of Bu****it and focus on the real work Tesla developers and engineers need to work on. Sheesh.

You won't log an error that didn't happen. No matter how hard you try.
You know it is my fault but can't explain how it happened? You think I drove a car into the garage with the alarm bells ringing? If the hatch was open and I drove it into the garage with the hatch wide open then the hatch would have been torn from its hinges. The overhang is lower than the fully open hatch. I love perfect people who have all the answers. Would like to inform you that Tesla knows the doors have issues. The service center proceeded to inform me that he had another guy who had falcon wing damage because he opened his falcon wing doors in his garage when "he knew he had issues with the falcon wing doors opening in his garage". Yes I know of this issue also. This is reason never open falcon wing door in our garage. All my backseat occupants must first exit the vehicle before I pull into the garage. Tesla knows this is an issue but for such an expensive car they won't address that issue either. This is something that they know is an issue but like the service center tech said "The guy knew he had issues with the doors" but Tesla takes no responsibility for Tesla addressing the issue. This illustrates how much Tesla cares to address real issues with the car.
 

Batt Car

Executive, engineer, entrepreneur, author, dad.
Oct 1, 2018
126
102
West Chester PA
You know it is my fault but can't explain how it happened? You think I drove a car into the garage with the alarm bells ringing? If the hatch was open and I drove it into the garage with the hatch wide open then the hatch would have been torn from its hinges. The overhang is lower than the fully open hatch. I love perfect people who have all the answers. Would like to inform you that Tesla knows the doors have issues. The service center proceeded to inform me that he had another guy who had falcon wing damage because he opened his falcon wing doors in his garage when "he knew he had issues with the falcon wing doors opening in his garage". Yes I know of this issue also. This is reason never open falcon wing door in our garage. All my backseat occupants must first exit the vehicle before I pull into the garage. Tesla knows this is an issue but for such an expensive car they won't address that issue either. This is something that they know is an issue but like the service center tech said "The guy knew he had issues with the doors" but Tesla takes no responsibility for Tesla addressing the issue. This illustrates how much Tesla cares to address real issues with the car.

Yes. I am saying it is your fault. Not hard to understand. Just like I have seen people drive out of their garage with the FD open it is their fault. For whatever reason the trunk was open.

It is not a Tesla issue. How many time on the news do you see someone hitting the accelerator when they thought they hit the brake. Anyone who says the software should somehow predict that you might drive to a low clearance hazard with your trunk open does not understand software, technology, or the human error factor. Sorry for your loss.
 

z168

Member
Dec 11, 2014
109
25
SoCal
I knew the first 30minutes I laid eyes on the key fob that opening doors and hatch will be a safety issue. I have the fob in a small snug zippered hard case so there is absolutely no way it can accidentally triggered in my pocket or wife’s handbag. Its a shame to hide such a beautiful key fob
 

pereiks

Member
Sep 25, 2019
138
38
Sammamish, WA
I knew the first 30minutes I laid eyes on the key fob that opening doors and hatch will be a safety issue. I have the fob in a small snug zippered hard case so there is absolutely no way it can accidentally triggered in my pocket or wife’s handbag. Its a shame to hide such a beautiful key fob
Just to reiterate, you can't open doors/trunk with fob while driving - just try. I'll do few beeps and do nothing
 

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