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Rear Tire Failure

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Sans Gas, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. Sans Gas

    Sans Gas Member

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    We are returning from a summer road trip and stopped near the Highland Park service and super charger site. Since we have had the car for about 18 months and have about 13,000 miles, I asked the service center to do the annual maintenance. They found the steel belts protruding from the two rear wheels. There is no warranty on the tires and I was told this happens due to the torque on the rear wheels. I was quoted $491.67 to replace the tires with no warranty on the new tires. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I am not an aggressive driver and tire failure at 13K miles seems unusual to me.
     
  2. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    What size wheels; what model S? It's well within what some have seen for a P85+ on 21".
     
  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    If you're on the 21's, I'll sadly welcome you to the club. I had my wheels inspected and cleared, and shortly after had a flat in my rear tire. The insides wore down to the metal, and I was told it's "normal" due to the factory settings for the real wheels.
     
  4. Newscutter

    Newscutter Member

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    18 months and only 13k?? You DO enjoy driving it, right??

    We're at about 6k in about 3 months. Just did my first rotation (have you rotated your tires at interval??) and noted that rear tires were at around 6-7/32 and fronts were at 9/32. Wife isn't aggressive but I love accelerating the car fast every change I get so we kind of even each other out. All tires seem to be wearing pretty evenly from side to side though I did notice there is a little more tread in the middle of the rears than the edges-- but I attribute that to cornering, not underinflation.

    Even so, at this rate I'm expecting to be replacing tires more often and hope swapping to winter wheels/tires (not an issue where you live) will extend the regular tires a bit longer.
     
  5. Sans Gas

    Sans Gas Member

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    We have the Model S, 19" and from what I see online were lucky to get 13K out of the rears. Tires were never rotated or aligned which I acknowledge is my failure. I'll be more observant in the future. I asked the service rep. if I could get car aligned at a local place, in my case a Goodyear store. She said yes if they have the specs., but tesla service doesn't provide these to stores. If I were home I could have gotten the same tires with warranty (not included by Tesla) at a lower price. So the caveat is check your tires regularly and if needed shop around rather than Tesla Service.

    Anyone have the alignment specs?
     
  6. caddieo

    caddieo Member

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    This is at odds with my experience. At my12k/1year service in July, they did not rotate my tires because they said the tire wear all around was very even. I did not think to ask for exact measurements, but I am inclined to agree just by eyeballing. They suggested waiting another 5-6k before rotation. I have not taken any high speed trips greater than 200 miles and I wonder if that could be a factor. Plus, the car is almost always empty with a lone driver 70-80% of the time.
     
  7. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    It's probably an alignment issue. I got 17.5K out of my first set of OEM 19" Goodyears, with regular rotations. At that point I had an alignment done and the second set seems on track for significantly more miles. Search the site for "expensive rear tires" and "alignment issues" and you'll find an exhaustive discussion spanning the two years the S has been in owners' hands.
     
  8. JPP

    JPP Active Member

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    Me, 20k miles on 19" Goodyears with S85 and air suspension (fair amount of highway driving & auto-lowering @ 60 MPH). Compulsive about alignment and rotate every 6k miles plus check pressures monthly with digital gauge. I estimate about 50% worn--very even. Expect to get 35-40k miles...very pleased given weight of car and how it performs/I drive. Methinks you had bad alignment and/or camber bolt issues, plus failure to rotate/check pressures. Better luck next set of tires. BTW, some tire shops will do free lifetime rotation & alignment..very useful.
     
  9. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Yikes, that doesn't seem good to me for 19s, much less 13 K on a 19. I got 22 K out of my 21" Conti's. Tires were rotated only twice.
     
  10. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    Id bet you have air suspension ...

    When it drops to low, your tires die a quick death.

    I made it to 16K before the cords came up. No more LOW setting for me.
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The alignment specs are now in the owner's manual (the on-screen version). The wear you are experiencing is caused by improper toe. The large negative camber amplifies the toe problem (similar to how going at a high speed makes any accident worse--the speed doesn't cause the accident but it is a large contributor to the damage done).
     
  12. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I'll chime in and agree that this is due to an alignment issue. In the driving dynamics section of this forum there's a very long thread about it.

    The heavy acceleration and heavy car theories aren't the reason from what I've seen.

    Among earlier cars (maybe VINs of 25,000 and less? Just a guess), some had severe alignment issues. The wear was primarily due to out-of-spec toe values, exacerbated by camber issues. Some theories are that Tesla's Hunter alignment machine was improperly calibrated.

    I got just 11K miles on my first pair of 19s.

    Some others with P85s, 19s, and air suspension (yobigd comes to mind) who admit to being somewhat aggressive on the acceleration were able to get 40k+ miles on their 19s. Why? Almost certainly they lucked out with respect to alignment.

    If I were you, I'd definitely get the car aligned at a good alignment shop. The Model S specs are floating around here (or in the manual).

    Hopefully the alignment issue has been resolved for newer builds (I'll find out when I get my replacement car (hopefully) next month.
     
  13. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    Im in a P85, drive it pretty hard and just did my first tire rotation at 20,000 miles. Looks like I have another 20,000 left on the Michelin Primacy MXM4 245/45R19 98W's. I checked out the pricing to replace them - Costco sells for $245 a tire - at that price I think I will replace in pairs as they begin to get thread bare.
     
  14. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Below are photos I just took of my Michelin MXM4 Primacy 19"s. They have 13500 miles on them and were rotated at about 6000 miles. Coil suspension. Flashlight is highlighting the inside tread.

    My opinion is you should make Tesla replace your tires. Reason is - you are the victim of Tesla's mis-alignment. No way should any car ever show the belts on a tire at the miles you have. Only exception would be if you had the car aligned at a non-Tesla shop and they screwed it up. No "driving style" should cause the inside belts to be visible on the rear tires. Pure and simple a Tesla mistake and they should take ownership. Tesla brags they want to lead the world in service, and from my personal experience and what I've read on this forum they're doing it. But they might need you to show some spine first. Simply tell them you don't think anything you did could be the reason for the wear and other Tesla owners are not regularly experiencing your issue, so it has to be bad alignment, done by Tesla, at the factory. I think you'll find they respond well. If you don't get the right answer don't be afraid to raise the issue to higher levels until they take ownership. They owe it to you. Its their fault. By the way, you'll have the exact same problem on any tires you buy if you don't get the alignment fixed - don't forget! (sorry but this really makes it mandatory you get Tesla to admit their mistake and fix it, unless you want to buy tires every 14k miles)

    rear tire.JPG

    front tire.JPG
     
  15. tezco

    tezco Sig P85

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  16. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Sounds like you had an undiagnosed alignment issue. Even without a rotation, the 19" all-seasons should last more than 13k.

    If you guys are worried about this happening to you, grab a tire depth gauge and check it every now and again. Only take a few seconds and is really easy. Just compare inside vs outside depth.

    The gauge itself is cheap, around $5. I just keep one in the car.
    Amazon.com: Milton S448 Tire Tread Depth Gauge: Automotive

    Past cars I've had only warranted the alignment for 1yr/12k miles, so if Tesla has similar language they might put up a fight. Realistically I agree with the previous poster that this was probably Tesla's fault, but they haven't made concessions for 21" owners either, so I wouldn't expect you have good luck, either.
     
  17. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Um.. how does the air suspension setting (Low versus Normal) have a significant effect on tire wear?
     
  18. zwede

    zwede 2013 P85+

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    Low adds a further 1/2 negative camber. In low a model S will have over 2 degrees negative camber, often 2.5.
     
  19. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    It might be wise to check, or have your alignment (particulary toe-in) checked, relatively frequently by a suspension shop frequently regardless of trips to the service center. Record tread depth too.

    I recognize this may seem excessive for most owners, but it saves surprises. You're not checking gas mileage anymore, so you need something to keep you occupied.
     
  20. tengk

    tengk Member

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    Does anyone think this will be less of an issue now with the AWD version of the Model S "D"?
     

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