TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Rear view side cameras instead of side mirrors – or least as a supplement?

Discussion in 'Model S: Interior & Exterior' started by Akikiki, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Akikiki

    Akikiki A'-Lo-HA ! y'all

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,278
    Location:
    Kaneohe
    Isn’t it interesting that Tesla can put semi-autonomous vehicles on the highways but automobile manufacturers are not permitted to replace outside rear view side mirrors with outside rear view side cameras/video system? Hmmm? I am not referring to rear mounted video cameras - backup cameras.

    Is Tesla preparing for NHTSA to authorize outside rear view camera use? Has Tesla been equipping the more recent cars in the fleet with side mounted camera that can be used to replace the outside rear view mirrors? Is Tesla preparing the fleet for the option to use side camera to perform outside rear views. Is the day coming – soon – that we can use AP2 camera to display an outside rear view image on the center console? (I hope so.)

    Will the AP2 side cameras mounted in the fender turn signal indicators be used as rear view side mounted camera to replace or supplement rear view side mirrors?

    In March 2014 Tesla, in behalf of the members of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers petitioned the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to update the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No.111. Petitioners asked NHTSA to allow the use of camera-based rear and/or side vision systems as a compliance option for meeting requirements. So we know Tesla and other auto manufacturers want to replace or add review outside camera/video systems to vehicles.

    One strong argument for outside rear view side cameras is to reduce the drag on vehicles and increase mileage/range.

    The decision to permit manufacturers to replace outside rear view mirror outside review cameras/video systems is not easy. There are at least two separate issues to consider. I have found articles that explain in more detail these issues. These are the highlights. Neither of these two issues are my thoughts.

    Outside mirrors are a mandatory safety device. It’s easy for law enforcement to quickly determine if the device is working. Law enforcement would be unable to easily determine if a vehicle’s outside camera/interior video screen/system was working. An in-op camera/video system could be difficult and/or expensive to maintain or if not operation render the vehicle unsafe to drive.

    Second, after decades of using outside mirrors, there’s the question that transiting from outside viewing to interior side or center screen viewing could adversely impact the safe operation of the vehicle. Issues: Where is the best location inside the cockpit to locate the screen? Near the front side vent windows/near the location the mirror is on the outside? In the center console? Top center of the dash? Near or part of the inside rear view mirror? Should it be the same on all cars – a standard location for every American sold automobile?

    My question in this tread. Will we be able to use? Is Tesla preparing to offer the option to the AP2 fleet to use the side mounted turn signal mounted AP2 camera to capture the image for display on the center console.

    Would this also solve the current blind spot issue often voiced by owners?

    I am for outside rear view side cameras views to display on my center console. I would like to see an option added to divide the current two screen view to a three screen view so my outside rear view cameras can show me side by side images and a shorter version of the other available screen images.

    Since we know Tesla monitors what is posted on TM and TMC. And once in a while some bold/brave person with a Twitter account sends Elon a “hey, why can’t we have this or that – now?” question. (Hint)

    Do you want the option of enabling outside rear view cameras to display side images. Then voice your support or for that matter, non-support here.

    Because there is a considerable number of owners don’t post or visit both TM and TMC, I have posted this I both forums. I am posting this under Model S. Someone is welcome to create a link from the other sections to this posts.
     
    • Like x 1
  2. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,803
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Those two things are not related.

    Tesla is building all their cars with the hardware that Tesla believes will in the future be capable of autonomous driving. That is why the side cameras are there.

    US DOT regulations require external side view mirrors.

    My answer to your question is, as of now the side view cameras cannot legally replace the side view mirrors. When that might change in the future is anyone's guess.
     
  3. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,728
    Location:
    Texas/Washington
    The early Model X prototype had cameras in place of side mirrors. This topic was extensively discussed at that time.

    My thought is that manufacturers could easily come up with a camera system with supplemental small mirrors that would meet requirements but not create drag. They opt to try to change the rules, instead.
     
  4. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    7,929
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I agree that changing decades of driver habits is very hard. Therefore, I'd suggest having the outside cameras and a small HUD projector to project the side view images on the little triangle windows on the front doors. Make them darker or semi-opaque and reflective so you can see them even in the brightest of days. Or even better, backlit embedded OLED displays.

    I'd find looking at the center console for the side view mirrors very hard to get used to, as there are other visual cues when using the side mirrors, like what's in front of the car in your peripheral vision, that you'd lose looking at the center console.
     
  5. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,749
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    I'd like to see a combination of side view cameras and processed rear camera video, or better a dedicated rear view camera, to give a unified rear/side image. The rear visibility in the S is pretty awful and the rear camera is much too wide angle for regular rear view use IMHO.

    As far as getting used to looking at the center console rather than the mirrors, both my wife and I have adapted to using the rear view camera when backing after a bit of self training. I think most people could get used to a center console view pretty easily.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,803
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    In the 3 1/2 years I owned an S I always had the rear view camera image at the top of the center display, and preferred it to the rear view mirror. It worked great. Now do the same thing in my X.
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page