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Reason for range discrepancy between real world and EPA?

liludiivert

Member
Jan 15, 2020
55
54
Bay Area
I recently purchased a raven Model S that supposedly is rated at 373 miles of range by the EPA. In the real world, I struggle to get anywhere close to that with normal driving. I've more or less assumed that was normal until I read this week that the Porsche Taycan seemingly easily went 40+ miles over its EPA range of 201 miles. Now I'm not trying to compare here the ranges of these two cars as I'm aware the LR MS has a longer range regardless. I am just confused as to how the MS can be rated at 371 miles of range when its seemingly impossible to achieve with normal driving whereas the Taycan rated at 201 miles seems to easily hit that and in this case surpass it by 30%? If the EPA tests are supposedly standardized real-world simulations how can such a wide discrepancy appear?
 

Hash Browns

Member
Aug 31, 2016
51
81
Bay Area
One thing to consider is that tires generally have much higher rolling resistance for the first 1000 miles. I learned this the hard way buying new tires for a long drive I was making. Turns out, brand new tires will have significantly worse range for the first 1000 miles, after which time they set in to the tire manufacturer's stated rolling resistance.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,051
8,854
Maine
I recently purchased a raven Model S that supposedly is rated at 373 miles of range by the EPA. In the real world, I struggle to get anywhere close to that with normal driving. I've more or less assumed that was normal until I read this week that the Porsche Taycan seemingly easily went 40+ miles over its EPA range of 201 miles. Now I'm not trying to compare here the ranges of these two cars as I'm aware the LR MS has a longer range regardless. I am just confused as to how the MS can be rated at 371 miles of range when its seemingly impossible to achieve with normal driving whereas the Taycan rated at 201 miles seems to easily hit that and in this case surpass it by 30%? If the EPA tests are supposedly standardized real-world simulations how can such a wide discrepancy appear?

Define normal.

Before getting excited about that particular Taycan test, do note that the Taycan it was a press test, in one direction, with an overall loss of elevation. So, ignore it. Somebody, at some point, is going to do some proper testing on it.

Anyway, the EPA test is a standard test and tends towards lower speeds with a significant number of speed changes. It's better than anything else out there, but YMeMV.
 

FatherTo1

Member
Mar 7, 2019
930
917
California
I believe the EPA estimate is based on going 65mph. Speed kills range. Your car can probably go 600 miles at 25mph.

Somebody recently posted a stunt in Italy that literally showed the Model S traveled 600 miles at an average of 25 MPH, lol.

OP, my first few weeks with our Raven S Standard Range I was using 1.7 miles of range for every mile travelled! I have since settled into a more normal driving style and can actually eke out over 300 miles on our 285-mile rated car without giving up too much fun. For my car, to get the EPA estimated range, I have to keep energy consumption at 254 Wh/m. I average between 230-240 Wh/m (during the current winter), so better than EPA. What is your average Wh/m?
 

liludiivert

Member
Jan 15, 2020
55
54
Bay Area
Define normal.

Before getting excited about that particular Taycan test, do note that the Taycan it was a press test, in one direction, with an overall loss of elevation. So, ignore it. Somebody, at some point, is going to do some proper testing on it.

Anyway, the EPA test is a standard test and tends towards lower speeds with a significant number of speed changes. It's better than anything else out there, but YMeMV.
I understand the elevation drop but that was mearly 1000 ft over 450 miles. This combined with quotes like “We drove between 70 mph and 80 mph the vast majority of the time, but we did push the Taycan up over 100 mph a few times, we just couldn't help ourselves.” and a race with a P3D. There is noway I can do that and get away with anything close to the EPA estimate.
 

Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,666
6,523
Logan
EPA tests aren't real world. They put the car on a dyno in a climate controlled room and see how far it will go as they run their tests. There is no wind resistance or temperature fluctuations, no rain, no sunlight, no sunset, no traffic, no hills... Not even variable gravel and pavement or potholes. It's not a real world test.
 
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AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,668
4,546
Northern California
EPA tests aren't real world. They put the car on a dyno in a climate controlled room and see how far it will go as they run their tests. There is no wind resistance or temperature fluctuations, no rain, no sunlight, no sunset, no traffic, no hills... Not even variable gravel and pavement or potholes. It's not a real world test.
That’s a useless test, in that case what’s the point of it? All it does is give people a reason to think something is wrong with their vehicle
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,249
871
Cary, NC
I get EPA easy. At about 70 mph.
The EPA is not a single speed test - it has multiple phases.
Tires are a huge issue. New and 21. I would think 330 is about right so you aren't that far off.
The Taycan may be doing better because of the tranny that gets into higher gear at 65-70 mph or so. The EPA test is always a bit lower than that - so it particularly hurt the Taycan. That particular test was between 70 and 80 - so ideal for that second gear.
 

kev1n

Active Member
Nov 17, 2016
1,343
962
SF Bay Area
we are in the bay area but it has been cold lately, pay attention to the temperature outside when youre driving, it plays a lot in the mileage you will see. its not uncommon to see anywhere from 10-30% reduced range in the winter. in my p85d, ive been seeing 15% reduced range lately.
 

WASD

Member
Apr 11, 2019
191
129
Mission Hills
I get much better range (and wh/mi confirm) when driving at a steady speed for long distances. The model S is very heavy, and requires a lot of power to move it from a stop. If you do a lot of stop and go driving, your range will suffer. Regen from stop and go driving doesn't add that much range.

My previous car (spark ev) was more efficient at stop and go because of it's weight and I averaged 4.5 miles per kwh over 3 years (and I didn't drive it lightly). On the freeway it was less efficient, probably due to poor aerodynamics.
 

gavine

Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Apr 1, 2014
2,613
2,183
Philadelphia, PA
Somebody recently posted a stunt in Italy that literally showed the Model S traveled 600 miles at an average of 25 MPH, lol.

I didn't see that video, but I know older Model S cars have done 500 miles at slow speed so I just estimated 600 miles on the Raven 100D. Not too shabby.
 

FatherTo1

Member
Mar 7, 2019
930
917
California
I understand the elevation drop but that was mearly 1000 ft over 450 miles. This combined with quotes like “We drove between 70 mph and 80 mph the vast majority of the time, but we did push the Taycan up over 100 mph a few times, we just couldn't help ourselves.” and a race with a P3D. There is noway I can do that and get away with anything close to the EPA estimate.

Forgot to mention earlier, 21s killed my range. My efficiency and range immediately improved by 12% after I downsized from 21" Twin Turbine Sonic Carbon wheels to a set of 19" Slipstreams. They don't look as nice but they go farther. It is a trade-off. Don't expect EPA numbers when your car is not set up like the EPA test car, nor driven like it.
 
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