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Reassuring your Singapore Tesla Model 3 worries

Discussion in 'Singapore' started by Valdric Lim, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Valdric Lim

    Valdric Lim Member

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    Hello all,

    It seems to that there's are still people with understandable worries about the whole Model 3 reservation issue for Singapore. Especially in light of Joe's struggles with importing his Tesla Model S.

    As it will be strenuous for us all to keep replying to the same questions as our Tesla Enthusiasts SG group in Facebook continues to expand in numbers, here's the following black & white to ensure all your related worries can be assuaged.

    [I have attached the Model 3 Reservation Terms & Conditions below to this post too.]

    - SUMMARY -

    1) - 2) ~ Reservation Deposits

    3) - 5) ~ Charging Infrastructure & Emissions

    6) - 7) ~ Owning a Tesla

    8) - 9) ~ Model 3 Delivery & Specs

    _________________________

    1)
    First and foremost, the USD 1,000 reservation deposit is NOT a sales contract.

    Your deposit is an indication of your interest in participating in the Tesla mission to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, end the fossil fuel era once and for all and be part of the altruistic cause to combat climate change and save the Earth.

    Our. Earth.

    _________________________

    2)
    The deposit is entirely REFUNDABLE. If at anytime you feel that you are no longer comfortable to be part of the Tesla mission any further, you can contact Tesla at Tesla.com and request for a refund of your deposit without worries for penalties.

    _________________________

    3)
    An electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure already exists in Singapore. For any queries, please (politely) contact Terence Siew as his company Greenlots (Greenlots.com) has existing charging stations all over Singapore.

    So if you stay in a HDB or a condo (like me) that doesn't have a charging port, fear not. As we will have the charging infrastructure to cope with the demand.

    _________________________

    4a)
    Despite 3), it is unfathomable that Tesla will setup shop in Singapore without also setting up their proprietary Superchargers.

    Therefore, one can expect with certainty that there would be more charging stations to handle the increased demand for Tesla EVs in Singapore.

    ----------

    4b)
    However I would caution people to be properly educated on 4a). These Tesla proprietary Superchargers will ONLY support Tesla EVs. There have been (comical) cases in other countries where owners of Nissan LEAF & BMW i3 cars thought they could utilize these Tesla Superchargers, only to be (severely) upset that their cars are not compatible.

    This is not Tesla being malicious; its CEO Elon Musk has extended an olive branch to other automakers to collaborate on the Superchargers. But none have thus far taken up on the offer. So please do not misinterpret Tesla as being selfish with their Superchargers.

    ----------

    4c)
    For concrete evidence of Tesla's plan for Singapore, look no further than Hong Kong, a country to which bears similarities to our nation's infrastructure. Locky Loki here is from Hong Kong and already owns a Model S, so you can also (politely) send your enquiries to him on how his Model S fits into his daily commutes throughout a dense city population.

    _________________________

    5a)
    There is still the perception that Tesla EVs are not clean, due to the reasoning that the electricity that they use comes from the grid. And that the grid electricity is produced by power plants polluting the atmosphere.

    While correct, Tesla however equips their Supercharger stations with solar panels to power their Supercharger stations. Because the electricity from these Superchargers comes from the Sun, there is no pollution involved whatsoever in acquiring electricity to power your Tesla.

    See a post from CEO Elon Musk himself (from a decade ago) for more explanations: https://www.teslamotors.com/node/2528?no_cache=1459933974

    ----------

    5b)
    Bear in mind that to produce an ICE(Internal Combustion Engine) car:

    - 1 - There is the environmental cost of building the car's entire chassis, frame & engine.

    - 2 - To maintain an ICE car, one has to factor in the environmental costs of extracting the oil ("Dinosaur juice"),

    - 3 - Shipping the oil

    - 4 - And then refining the oil before it enters our ICE cars.

    - 5 - And the release of exhaust flumes that will further pollute the atmosphere.

    ----------

    5c)
    To produce a Tesla EV,

    - 1 - There is also the similar environmental cost of building the car's entire chassis, frame & battery. As Tesla EVs are powered by rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries, there too is the environmental cost of extracting minerals from mines used to build the batteries.

    - 2 - To maintain a Tesla EV, using the electricity generated from the grid is a choice, and not a coercion.

    Because once we eventually move on to other renewables such as solar energy, especially with the Tesla Superchargers, our Tesla EVs will not be powered by the grid at all. And of course, it releases no exhaust emissions.

    There is also the Tesla Powerwall to store electricity in your home if you also have solar panels to absorb the Sun's energy and convert it to the electricity for your house & your Tesla EV. So no grid electricity here.

    ----------

    So factoring everything you know from 5b) vs. 5c), & 5a), can you continue to tolerate people that claim that EVs are as dirty as ICE cars?

    _________________________

    6)
    As for pricing, the Model 3's base model is expected to start at USD 35,000. For comparison, we can use the Audi A4 with a similar pricing in the U.S. for its base model.

    Over here, the prices at Audi's AD (Authorized Dealer) is around SGD 160,000 with current COE Category A prices.

    But that does not mean the Model 3 will cost SGD 160,000. There are variables to factor in here.

    ----------

    6a)
    First off, the CEVS (Carbon Emissions-based Vehicle Scheme). If the carbon emissions for a car is low as with Tesla cars, your Model 3 will qualify for a CEVS for up to SGD 30,000.

    [This is all said with acknowledgement of the stubbornness of our LTA (Land Transport Authority) & MOT (Ministry of Transport) in regards to Joe's Model S. For now we should think positive and assume Tesla will eventually work things out with the LTA & MOT.]

    ----------

    6b)
    As your Model 3 will run on pure electricity, the costs of your daily commute will be entirely dependent on:

    - 1 - Your grid electricity costs. Or costs from running electricity converted from your own solar panels / windmill / other alternative energy sources at your homes, if any.

    - 2 - Costs per non-Tesla charging station charges.

    - 3 - Costs per Tesla Supercharger station charges. This is a different category from non-Tesla charging stations because Elon Musk and Tesla has yet to decide if the Model 3 is elligible for free supercharging or paid supercharging.

    The rationale behind this is because all Model S & X owners worldwide DO NOT pay any money for utilizing the Tesla Superchargers. The cost of these Superchargers has already been built into these cars.

    However as the Model 3 is expected to be much cheaper and in bigger demand, this remains to be seen.

    [Questions regarding the veracity of "FREE" Supercharging should bear in mind that as aforementioned, the electricity used to power the Superchargers comes from solar panels. As the Sun does not extort us for its solar energy (I think), the solar energy that eventually gets converted into electrical energy to power our Teslas will NOT incur additional costs on the Tesla company balance sheet. Therefore they can pass the savings to us consumers.]

    In other words, your Model 3 travel costs will be entirely immune to the volatility of oil & diesel prices.

    ----------

    6c)
    Unlike ICE cars, Tesla EV chassis is cleaner and contains less moving parts & components than ICE cars.

    Also attached (after the Model 3 Reservation T&C) are pictures of an ICE chassis vs. a Tesla Model S chassis.

    From the pictures, one can ostensibly see how much cleaner & simpler a Tesla EV chassis would look like. As a result of less moving parts & components, there would be a lower possibility of breakdown, frequency and need for maintenance.

    Therefore, your maintenance costs will also be lower than your typical ICE vehicle.

    ----------

    6d)
    As Tesla does not do 3rd party dealers for its cars, you can also expect them to not include 3rd party dealership middlemen markup costs in your Model 3.

    Tesla is a vertically integrated company, so they are both the manufacturer and the retailer for all of their cars. If you have any bad experience with the usual car dealers and their service/warranty/communication antics, do not expect the same experience with Tesla.

    _________________________

    7)
    As it is with 100% certainty that Tesla will return to Singapore officially, one does not have to worry about personally tackling the logistics of bringing in their cars from overseas. Tesla will set up a showroom & service centre in Singapore eventually.

    _________________________

    8a)
    While the beginning of delivery is stated to be at the end of 2017, one can expect to get their Model 3s in 2018 or possibly 2019. This is because Tesla has deliver their Model 3s to those living in the West Coast states of the U.S. as those buyers are closest to their Fremont, California factory.

    The reasoning behind this is because with every new model release, there would unequivocally be issues with the early car models. And as the earliest West Coast buyers are in close proximity to the Tesla production factory, recalling the Model 3s would logistically be easier and faster to iron out whatever issues to ensure said issues would not appear in deliveries throughout other parts of the world.

    ----------

    8b)
    Their current delivery schedule is as follows:

    - 1 - West Coast states of the U.S.
    - 2 - East Coast states of the U.S.
    - 3 - Europe and all other countries with left-hand drive cars.
    - 4 - And finally, countries like Singapore & Australia with right-hand drive cars.

    ----------

    8c)
    So by placing your reservations now, you can simply being granted the delivery date priority once Tesla enters to Singapore. I.e. you will get to order & receive your cars earlier than other Singaporeans who buy their Model 3s but didn't reserve or pre-order them.

    _________________________

    9)
    So for an estimated 120k-150k SGD (if the CEVS actually works), what do you expect to get? While the full Model 3 specs have yet to be revealed yet (until closer to production) until we get them we do not know which COE category will they belong to, nor what other possible *new* & *creative* taxes the government might impose on darling EVs.

    a) 0-100kph in less than 6 seconds.

    b) Elligible for Tesla Superchargers.

    c) Driverless car technology Autopilot hardware is built into all Model 3s, including base models. However to utilize their full Autopilot software one will most likely need to pay extra to utilize them. The upgrade can come on the spot or at a later date, as it is merely the installation of software and not hardware.

    d) Hatchback-Sedan (with a front that has visual cues from an Aston Martin Vanquish) that can seat 5 main adults. Meaning that even tall people can fit into the rear, unlike many Asian sedans that leave people around 1.7m and taller feeling like midgets with very little headrooms. As it is an electric drivetrain as well, there is no centre hump in the rear.

    e) It is expected to have some of the highest safety ratings for any car. So you, your family & friends in the Model 3 can feel safe in the event of an accident.

    f) The base model's range is expected to be at least 215 miles, or 344km. Final confirmation will come closer to production next year, but that figure means that you can zip back and forth from Tuas to Changi 4 times before crying for help. (344 / 42 = 8.19x).

    _________________________

    That's all I can think of now for all your Model 3 enquiries. If there's any errors or anything else you think I should add, don't hesitate to notify me. smile emoticon

    I hope all the aforementioned info will calm your concerns, and make you worry less about placing a reservation for your Model 3. As always, it's invigorating for all of us here to be part of a larger community that is actually changing the world!
     
    • Like x 2
  2. Grievor1988

    Grievor1988 New Member

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    Nice update!
     
  3. Brianshh

    Brianshh New Member

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    Awesome update. Anyone else besides Joe gotten their Tesla? Any experience to share??
     
  4. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Few minor corrections if I may please:



    I would not use the word "Driverless" for Tesla at current.

    It is true that eventually Tesla will incrementally improve to achieve "Driverless" ability but not with this current hardware suite.

    A more correct word should be "driver assisting."

    It's a notchback:


    [​IMG]
     
  5. lx3h

    lx3h Charged.hk TSLA Grp Rep

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    There is Tesla No.2 in SG now.
     
    • Like x 2
  6. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Details? Did they get screwed with a fine as well. It would be interesting to hear what the Wh/km figure attributed to that second car was.
     
  7. lx3h

    lx3h Charged.hk TSLA Grp Rep

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    Tesla No. 2 got rebate.
     
  8. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    What was the Wh/km figure attributed to that second car? Provides ammunition for Joe.
     
  9. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #9 Tam, Nov 8, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
    Two Tesla cars imported into Singapore granted tax breaks

    #1 Joe Nguyen: Used Model S P85 (<1,000km). 444Wh/km. 285kW. S$15,000 penalty.
    #2 IT professional: one-year-old Model S P90D (8,700km), 515kW, S$10,000 rebate.
    #3 Unidentified owner: brand-new Model S P85D, 386kW, S$15,000 rebate.

    No more penalties for both used and new Tesla!!!

    Let's celebrate!
     
  10. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    If I was Joe, I would be pissed as hell.

    Presumably he paid VICOM for their test. Now two similar cars have been tested and show completely different results. It is abundantly clear that VICOM messed up his test. They should re-test free-of-charge to give him an accurate result.
     
  11. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #11 Tam, Nov 8, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
    The article never mentions that there were any emissions testing for #2 & #3 cars.

    I don't know where the article get those numbers of "power rating": 285 kW, 515 kW and 386 kW.

    It sounds like a specification like horse power...

    If there was a test, it should be cited in the units of Wh / km.

    Tesla Certificate of Conformity says that Joe's car is 181 Wh/km but Singapore test says it should be 444 Wh/km.

    There has never any mentioning of another emissions testing either for Joe's or any other 2.
     
  12. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Singapore has said that all old cars imported must be tested. The results of those tests are the penalty/rebate.
     
  13. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    True. Singapore did say that it would test all used imports but the article does not indicate that any test was done after Joe's case.

    It only said that those 2 additional cars were awarded based on the power rating of 515 kW and 386 kW while Joe's power rating was only 285 kW which is much lower than those 2 but his was penalized.

    It sounds like the only difference is because Joe's was tested while the other 2 were not.
     
  14. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #14 Tam, Nov 8, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
    It seems like those 285, 515 and 386 kW numbers come from Wikipedia under the row "Max. power,motor" which is expressed in both horse power and kW units.

    I think the article explained the secret in the following statement:

    "There seems to be more clarity this time round," he said. "They asked far fewer questions."

    It could be that not only fewer questions were asked but the test results in Wh/km were completely skipped too.
     
  15. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    I really don't see how they could have done that. The amount of the penalty/rebate is directly derived from the Wh/km value.

    They must have either abandoned the testing of non-new imported cars and went with manufacturer declared consumption figures, or tested and got lower consumption figures.
     
  16. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    These from the article are not even consumption figures.

    They are Wikipedia figures and I doubt any of those Wikipedia nerds would do a test on Tesla kW Maximum Motor Power.
     

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