If they’d done that I woulda offered to haul it here on a trailer.
Doesn’t help with the rental though.
Want me to do a drive by to snoop once it’s there?
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Recent heat pump failures - software issue?
- Thread starter BR666T
- Start date
Doesn’t help with the rental though.
Want me to do a drive by to snoop once it’s there?
Nope - it's skipping Halifax and is heading to Quebec CityIf they’d done that I woulda offered to haul it here on a trailer.
Doesn’t help with the rental though.
Want me to do a drive by to snoop once it’s there?
Thanks though!Pretty much.. my hot take on this (I'm no HVAC specialist - take it with a grain of salt) is a software bug or workaround or both caused the compressor to run so hard it self destructs, at temperatures below -15ºC. I had seen some crazy aggressive preconditioning energy usage, and the car was sounding like a jet engine taking off. I wonder how many compressors this bug killed?In my case it feels kind of odd because I never had heat pump problems before (including -12 C w/ snow) until this error (which arrived before the problems). It's almost like an attempt to fix someone else's problems via software bricked my heat pump that was previously OK
@rypalmer is that your experience as well? (no problems until the 2 days after error)
We are in Vermont on a ski trip and now experiencing this issue. Tesla is telling us the problem with our car is related to a recent OTA update. The obvious solution is for them to reverse the update over the air, but they claim they can't do that. So much for the supposedly terrific OTA updates.
Not the first time an OTA update has caused problems for us. How about thoroughly testing the software before distributing it please? The only answer I can get out of Tesla is to bring the car one of their service centers, but when I point out they don't have any in the entire state of Vermont all I get is silence.
Pretty much impossible (and dangerous too) to try to drive the car when the windshield is frozen due to lack of heat. Last night we were so cold we finally had to give up and leave the car on the side of the road and call for an Uber. This is the last straw with this car and the poor attitude of Tesla Customer Service. We've had enough and are filing a lemon law claim when we get home.
And for those who claim these temperatures affect all EV's and ICE's, nonsense. See here:
insideevs.com
Obviously yet another example of Tesla rushing their vehicles and software to market without proper testing.
Not the first time an OTA update has caused problems for us. How about thoroughly testing the software before distributing it please? The only answer I can get out of Tesla is to bring the car one of their service centers, but when I point out they don't have any in the entire state of Vermont all I get is silence.
Pretty much impossible (and dangerous too) to try to drive the car when the windshield is frozen due to lack of heat. Last night we were so cold we finally had to give up and leave the car on the side of the road and call for an Uber. This is the last straw with this car and the poor attitude of Tesla Customer Service. We've had enough and are filing a lemon law claim when we get home.
And for those who claim these temperatures affect all EV's and ICE's, nonsense. See here:
Kia Niro EV Tested At -40°C! Will It Start And Drive?
Kia Niro EV, one of the popular all-electric mainstream models, was recently tested in the northern Finland (70°N) at temperatures as low as -40°C.
insideevs.com
The compressor really does work hard. I sure wish they had put in a PTC heater. They use the compressor to warm the batteries too. It just screams when it is -30. I have a feeling the service life of it, even if they get these failures sorted out, is not going to be very long in a cold climate. Maybe I'm wrong.
Also it's very obnoxious when you are driving because it's just so bloody loud...
Definitely feels like this was over-engineered to save a few dollars on a different component which could do the job better. Why bother with a PTC heater when we can just use this amazing heat pump?
It's because you have one or two drive units capable to generating a lot of heat both while in motion and stationary (see: "off-phase power" description). This is the part I can't figure out... why not just blast the heat from the drive units and save the drama with the compressor, if COP is ~1 regardless?
This is my biggest concern - lack of proper testing. I will be more cautious about accepting updates in the future. Can anyone on the "Standard" software update setting (rather than "Advanced") confirm the version they are currently on?
I am on Standard and I got the v11 update on Dec 24th. Currently on 30.7 although I haven't checked for an update today to see if 30.8 is available yet.
I get the frustration in the moment but do any of you guys that are advocating for resistive heating really think that's a good idea long term? That stuff is a range killer. Heat pumps are the future for houses. Why not cars too?
When it's that cold, using the compressor at COP=1, stalling the drive unit, or running a PTC heater is all the same. You're not getting much heat from the atmosphere anyway. Heat pumps save energy only when they can actually extract heat from the atmosphere, but below -10°C, there's not much heat that can be extracted. I'm sure Tesla could put in a heat pump that's optimized for pumping heat across larger temperature ranges but that likely involves other tradeoffs with efficiency in cooling mode.
Yup exactly. They are basically using the compressor as a resistive heater, so the range is heavily impacted once it gets to -10°C and below. I think the combo would be a better solution. If you've never driven a Model 3 at -20°C let me tell you it is freaking loud. The compressor just absolutely screams. At stop lights people must be wondering what the hell is wrong with my car.
Do Heat Pumps Work in Minnesota? - GreenBuildingAdvisor talks about heat pumps like Fuji that avoided aux heat down to -10F. I get that there is a limit that's perhaps exceeded at certain latitudes.
If -10F (or whatever the math says is realistically possible given all the math and conditions I don't understand) is not enough, then maybe Tesla should consider a backup resistive heat option just like houses have.
If -10F (or whatever the math says is realistically possible given all the math and conditions I don't understand) is not enough, then maybe Tesla should consider a backup resistive heat option just like houses have.
First of all, a house in Minnesota uses a lot of heat and very little cooling. So they're probably willing to make that tradeoff (ability to pump heat from very low temperatures in exchange for lower efficiency in AC mode). But cars are mobile, and some of these vehicles are used in places like Hawaii, where the heating mode would rarely get used and a PTC heater would never, ever be used at all. Making that tradeoff and assuming that all of these vehicles will be driven in Canada or Minnesota isn't a good tradeoff to be making.
Furthermore, I don't see what the purpose is of putting PTC heaters in there when they've got drive units that can act as ~7 kW heaters. Houses don't have drive units they can use as heat sources. Just stall the drive units and heat the coolant the same way the superbottle vehicles use them to heat the batteries, except send the heated coolant to the chiller and compressor instead of the batteries. Reduces part count, and means that vehicles in Hawaii aren't lugging around PTC heaters that never get used. It's all one type of system; there's no "cold weather optimized" model vs. "hot weather optimized" model. The heat pump system is flexible enough that it should be able to create heat at COP=1 in other ways than running the compressor as a heater. Tesla should push a software update that uses the drive units to supplement the compressor's heat and be done with it.
I don't know enough about the details but seems sensible. I've never had problems in Colorado before with excessive noise or heat problems but I'm also not often the one driving the car when it's below 0F outside so perhaps I wouldn't know one way or the other. I have gone skiing several times between 0-10F and have always been nice and comfortable inside with no noticeable noise increase.
By the way, https://forums.tesla.com/discussion...fevlN62iBxeGRmrl_upc-1642622898-0-gaNycGzNC6U seemed like a decent summary of how they generate heat with the motor. I don't know how much of that applies to Y's and 3's with heat pumps.
By the way, https://forums.tesla.com/discussion...fevlN62iBxeGRmrl_upc-1642622898-0-gaNycGzNC6U seemed like a decent summary of how they generate heat with the motor. I don't know how much of that applies to Y's and 3's with heat pumps.
Last edited:
Tony_YYZ
Tezler Guru
Tesla can overwrite that if there is some critical update. Also push that over 4G.
Ah, it was -18C this morning and its the first time i've felt my steering wheel vibrate, was a little suprised but figured it was the heat pump after turning down my music volume.
Either way, even at this temp I think the heat pump was pretty efficient.
I had a 50 km drive at speeds of 110-130 km/h and still managed 170 wh/km(270 wh/mile)
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