Well I just realized that metal shavings from a failing compressor cannot get into the supermanifold, which controls the flow of glycol. They'd likely lodge themselves in the chiller, liquid cooled condenser, cabin condenser, or cabin evaporator, which carry refrigerant and not glycol. The glycol is only connected to the refrigerant through the heat exchangers that are the liquid cooled condenser and chiller, and no metal shavings would be able to pass through them. So I wonder what the supermanifold replacements are about? Perhaps a new design that separates the motor that controls the louvers from the motor that controls the radiator bypass valve, if that part of my explanation happens to be correct?
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Recent heat pump failures - software issue?
- Thread starter BR666T
- Start date
100%, don't know how anybody didn't realise that... and also.... if you have a failing compressor it means that as you said, you'll have metal shavings on the circuit.
But don't know how the supermanifold relates with the motors, they're not close at all and knowing Tesla, the motors are connected to a VC (vehicle controller) so they can always control them.
Brain fart.
Sure, but if they use the same motor to control the radiator bypass and the louver, one of those getting jammed means the other cannot operate. It's actually logical that they might try to do this, given that you'd never want to have the louver open and the radiator bypass active, or the louver closed and the radiator carrying glycol. In theory, whenever you're using the radiator (no bypass), you want the louver open, and whenever you're not using it (bypass active), you want the louver closed to improve aerodynamics. Which of course works in all scenarios except when the louver gets jammed by ice. In that case, the radiator bypass cannot be activated because the louver cannot be closed, and it seems like this is something that could eventually damage the compressor if it's cold enough outside.
Well they can do a circuit flush as they remove the supermanifold... or maybe they though of the remote possibility and there's a catching magnet (like on oil pans on ICEs)
Regarding the louver/bypass, I doubt they use the same motor, it would be strange, as one would by a stepper motor type, and the other one would be just a bypass valve, so why are they changing the supermanifold? maybe with super low temps on the glycol it doesn't flow as expected?
Regarding the louver/bypass, I doubt they use the same motor, it would be strange, as one would by a stepper motor type, and the other one would be just a bypass valve, so why are they changing the supermanifold? maybe with super low temps on the glycol it doesn't flow as expected?
Got my Model Y back. They replaced the compressor, supermanifold, and some AC lines as expected. Making all the right sounds now. Rolled into Toronto at about -18ºC last night (dirty as hell of a drive) and the heat worked as expected. Fingers crossed the saga is over.
EVJAutoJunkie
EV Junkie
I experienced the dreaded VCFRONT _a447 error this morning. Temps were -10 F. Preconditioning never fired and the app showed error Climate On Failed when trying to manage any of the heating elements (wheels, seats, vents, etc..) in the car.
When I got in the car, the climate alert error showed up on the screen, but I was able to heat the steering wheel, seats, and the front windshield. Everything else was non-responsive. After driving around for over 30 minutes and parking in a warm garage, all heating elements finally came on. However, one hour later, the climate menu became non-responsive on the app, the car stopped heating, and I was back to square one.
The frozen Climate menu in the app is the one recurring issue. I am able to get it to work again by opening the car door and starting the car. All primary heating vents do not come one, but at least it makes the Climate menu in the app functional again. This can't be a networking issue because all other functions of the app is operational.
FYI - I am running 2021.44.30.5 (FSD Beta 10.8.1) on a refresh 2021 M3LR. Since I am on the FSD Beta software track, I am not sure if 2021.44.30.10 addresses this issue. I hope Tesla resolves this issue before Winter is over. Either that or Elon delivers my 2022 S Plaid sooner than later.
When I got in the car, the climate alert error showed up on the screen, but I was able to heat the steering wheel, seats, and the front windshield. Everything else was non-responsive. After driving around for over 30 minutes and parking in a warm garage, all heating elements finally came on. However, one hour later, the climate menu became non-responsive on the app, the car stopped heating, and I was back to square one.
The frozen Climate menu in the app is the one recurring issue. I am able to get it to work again by opening the car door and starting the car. All primary heating vents do not come one, but at least it makes the Climate menu in the app functional again. This can't be a networking issue because all other functions of the app is operational.
FYI - I am running 2021.44.30.5 (FSD Beta 10.8.1) on a refresh 2021 M3LR. Since I am on the FSD Beta software track, I am not sure if 2021.44.30.10 addresses this issue. I hope Tesla resolves this issue before Winter is over. Either that or Elon delivers my 2022 S Plaid sooner than later.
FYI, my horror story got resolved with a visit to the service center. As it was a rental Model Y (ours is in the body shop), I have not yet been informed what was actually performed, however it came back with the 2021.44.30.7 software. Heat works fine 100% of the time, I drove it at up to -22 celcius without issues. We go to Glen Eden ski hill multiple times a week and in the evenings around 9:30 PM it's regularly close to -20 celcius and no issues 1 week after with regular cold temperatures. We don't pre-heat because we live in an apartment (no charging on site) and so far so good.
The other thing people were asking, how an Octovalve works - here's the best explanation I've been able to find:
. Sandy Munro offers some insights, but not the details of the modes of operation - he charges $15K USD for that information.
The other thing people were asking, how an Octovalve works - here's the best explanation I've been able to find:
Nope, you're wrong. The heat pump connects directly to the Supermanifold. And the LCC, liquid cooled condenser, and chiller, also both attach to the Supermanifold. (The temperature/pressure sensors that they replaced last year are also attached to the Supermanifold.)
You can see the heat pump refrigerant lines connected to the Supermanifold in the Munro tear down video here:
There is also the part that calls out the line from the Supermanifold to the compressor:
I think the LCC and chiller are both part of the Supermanifold assembly, so since they get contaminated they have to replace the whole assembly.
Edit: Random additional thought: Are the only vehicles with a failing compressor ones that required that the temperature/pressure sensors had to be replaced? I thought it was mentioned that they were failing because of contamination in them when manufactured was plugging them so that they didn't read correctly. Maybe some of that contamination made it out of them and in to the rest of the system and took out the compressor over time.
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Which of your Model Ys had the failure? Did it have the temperature/pressure sensors replaced last year as part of the TSB?
The TSB was released in March of 2021, so I would think your Q3 2021 Model Y wouldn't be included in that. So there goes that theory.
They're all part of the heat pump. The compressor is the thing on the right, and he points out the refrigerant lines going from the compressor to either the liquid cooled condenser (which exchanges the heat in the refrigerant with glycol) or the cabin condenser (which exchanges the heat in the refrigerant with air). The liquid cooled condenser is designed to exchange heat between hot refrigerant and relatively cooler glycol but obviously the refrigerant and glycol never physically mix. Therefore, if the compressor fails and starts generating metal shavings, there's no way the metal shavings would get into the supermanifold (i.e. octovalve) since the octovalve only controls the flow of glycol. There are separate refrigerant valves that control the refrigerant flow into the liquid cooled condenser, chiller, cabin condenser, and cabin evaporator and those are the components that would likely get damaged if the compressor starts putting metal shavings into the refrigerant.
Nope, those lines connect directly to the Supermanifold. (I even showed you the part number, and description, from the Tesla parts catalog for the AC lines that connect the compressor to the Supermanifold.) The LCC and chiller then attach to the Supermanifold, without additional lines.
You are missing that the Octovalve is only a portion of the Supermanifold.
If you want to see the Supermanifold in more detail you can look at this video:
Note: the plastic part is the Octovalve assembly that attaches to the metal part of the Supermanifold. (Which then the LCC, chiller, refrigerant sensors, etc. attach to.)
You could also look at the TSB I linked to:
Notice you are removing the lines from the Supermanifold, not the LCC or chiller.
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Mine had the sensors replaced in November and then my failure started 2 or 3 weeks ago. And my heat still hasn’t completely died while waiting for my appointment. Handled skiing in -17C yesterday.
I have tried doing that but the form seems to be focussed for businesses as it requires domain name, etc.
Yep. And I just found a video that shows where the supermanifold is (shown at around 7 minutes):
I doubt they used the same motor for the radiator bypass valve (which should be near or in the supermanifold) and the radiator louvers (which are all the way down in the grill). Also, Munro stated that the supermanifold had been through at least 5 revisions (A through E) as of December 2020 and at that time, these vehicles hadn't been experiencing heat pump failures due to cold (especially not between March and July of 2020). So it seems like the revisions of the supermanifold likely have nothing to do with the heat pump failures but are just incremental improvements they are making to the device.
The error started appearing on mine after a sensor replacement as well. There was a software update as well, not sure whether it was just coincidental.
Did they checked the front louvers if it functioning properly open/close position. Mine seems always open on my Model Y even when the battery hot or cold. I checked my other car Model 3 , the louvers is always closed when the parked and cold.. I preheat and it would open and closed after i turn it off. on my Model Y it's always open no matter what...
Mine is a "2022" (built in 2021) and I experienced the failure.
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