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recommendation needed for used EV

Hi all, we live in bay area CA. Currently we have a 12 honda odyssey and 15 outback. I want to replace my 15 outback with an EV. My budget is around $46k.

The use case is I want to drive the EV for daily drop off / pick up my two kids, typical total daily range is about 20 to 30 miles.

Both my wife and me are working from home now, and probably late next year I will start to back to office, then the daily range will be around 60 miles.

I have test driven the model 3 and model s. For model 3, I feel the suspension is too hard for me. I test drove for 20 min and my back already hurts. The model s is much better with a luxurious feeling inside.

I was considering an used model s, but don't know if that makes sense. Any other recommendations?

(I will test drive an used BMW i3 this week, but it looks very small and unattractive though.)
 
Bolt or Bolt EUV. Had a Bolt for 15,000 miles. Sold it back to Chevy for +$36,000 after two years and bought a Tesla M3 SR LFP. Bolt was a very good local use EV. Not for distance though. Drove it, with wife, from Cape Cod to south of Tucson AZ. Car was comfortable (put added pads on seats) but, Electrify America was a horror show and fast charging wasn't fast enough!

For local use, either of the Bolts would be a great choice. Wait till January for the rebate to kick in.

Rich

In NM at one of our charging stops with the Bolt coming from Cape Cod. Wife chatting with local, who had been a fully fleshed-out human being when the charging session had begun.
2hjUcdI.jpg
 

D.E.

Uncorked
Oct 12, 2016
916
1,244
Ann Arbor, MI
Hi all, we live in bay area CA. Currently we have a 12 honda odyssey and 15 outback. I want to replace my 15 outback with an EV. My budget is around $46k.

The use case is I want to drive the EV for daily drop off / pick up my two kids, typical total daily range is about 20 to 30 miles.

Both my wife and me are working from home now, and probably late next year I will start to back to office, then the daily range will be around 60 miles.

I have test driven the model 3 and model s. For model 3, I feel the suspension is too hard for me. I test drove for 20 min and my back already hurts. The model s is much better with a luxurious feeling inside.

I was considering an used model s, but don't know if that makes sense. Any other recommendations?

(I will test drive an used BMW i3 this week, but it looks very small and unattractive though.)
There’s a for Tesla for sale forum, you should find a very nice S for <$46K, in the 2014-2016 range, 50-75K miles.
 

BigNick

Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Dec 3, 2017
2,020
2,209
Pennsylvania, USA
If your budget is tight, you can't beat a 2023 Bolt starting at $25600. (The 2023 Bolt EUV, slightly larger than the EV, starts at $27200, still a bargain.)
Take delivery 2023-01-01 or after to get whatever chunk of the $7500 rebate the Bolt qualifies for.
Full factory warranty will be much better than anything you get with a used EV.

DC Fast Charging won't be in league with Supercharging right now but it should get better in the future.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
12,666
11,447
Maine
If your budget is tight, you can't beat a 2023 Bolt starting at $25600. (The 2023 Bolt EUV, slightly larger than the EV, starts at $27200, still a bargain.)
Take delivery 2023-01-01 or after to get whatever chunk of the $7500 rebate the Bolt qualifies for.
Full factory warranty will be much better than anything you get with a used EV.

DC Fast Charging won't be in league with Supercharging right now but it should get better in the future.
Realistically if they're getting a Bolt or Bolt EUV they're not caring much about DCFC.
I've been told (by someone who's getting one next year) that the Bolt EUV seats are comfortable. I know that there's plenty of rear space in the Bolt hatchback and the EUV has a couple of inches more.
 
thanks, as mentioned above i am not in a hurry to decide. : )

I test drove the i3 yesterday. The suspension is also too hard for me. The car was jumping up and down on unsmooth city roads (which contributes most of my driving time) I think I am sensitive to road introduced vibrations prefer softer suspension systems. As a reference, I am feeling fine on my 15 subaru outback and 12 odyssey's suspensions.

Any updated recommendations would be appreciated.
 

vickh

Active Member
Dec 16, 2018
3,714
877
az
thanks, as mentioned above i am not in a hurry to decide. : )

I test drove the i3 yesterday. The suspension is also too hard for me. The car was jumping up and down on unsmooth city roads (which contributes most of my driving time) I think I am sensitive to road introduced vibrations prefer softer suspension systems. As a reference, I am feeling fine on my 15 subaru outback and 12 odyssey's suspensions.

Any updated recommendations would be appreciated.

agree about suspension. It's hard to beat S air cloud suspension but i like 3 sporty handling so I compromised.

Wish they would offer Y air cloud suspension. best of all worlds!
 
Last edited:

parrainx

Member
Apr 17, 2022
183
280
NC
If your budget is tight, you can't beat a 2023 Bolt starting at $25600. (The 2023 Bolt EUV, slightly larger than the EV, starts at $27200, still a bargain.)
Take delivery 2023-01-01 or after to get whatever chunk of the $7500 rebate the Bolt qualifies for.
Full factory warranty will be much better than anything you get with a used EV.

DC Fast Charging won't be in league with Supercharging right now but it should get better in the future.
Last I checked Bolts are back up to their OG pricing 31k-33k.
 

tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
2,425
2,119
USA
If you really don't care about road trips / DCFC, then I agree with the Bolt suggestion. It's no Tesla of course, but it's a good basic car for what it is. Drives better than it looks. Short so easy to park. Has a liftgate. It seems like your budget could get a new or lightly used one with lots of warranty.

An old Model S would be way, way more car in many ways, and can be had for similar or even less money if old enough / high mileage enough. But that's because if the battery or drive unit fails outside of warranty you are looking at VERY costly repairs. Especially for a replacement battery. Way more risk than a new (or nearly new) Bolt.

Note old Model S are not that great for road trips either due to slow DCFC compared to most new EVs (Tesla or otherwise), but still faster DCFC than a Bolt, plus Supercharger network, plus free unlimited Supercharging.
 

tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
2,425
2,119
USA
Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions. For what is worth, does make year matter for the air suspension comes with used model s? for example, is the 16/17 used model S has same suspension softness compared to the new ones?
@tiejia_ev Matters a lot actually. As always with Tesla, to be sure of what you're getting, you really need to test the exact car you're buying. Or if it's a new one, hope that it matches whatever you test drove, assuming you liked the demo car.

The original Model S air suspension, as fitted on 2012-2013 cars (40, 60, 85, P85, but *not* counting the P85+ suspension option of 2013), is pretty soft. Good ride quality. Not the very smoothest out there but it's good. Handles just fine in *casual* driving. Not firm enough for really hard driving like a sports sedan. This is the air suspension my 2013 Model S P85 has. (Note, the base coil spring suspension rode and handled worse than the air suspension. Wholly inferior. I tested coil and air back-to-back when these cars were new.)

Then the P85+ with its "Plus" suspension option launched. This was significantly firmer and sportier than the regular air suspension. Felt like they upgraded bushings as well as dampers + springs. Way better handling, tighter feeling steering, etc. Still rode well, clearly firmer yet still good ride, really just very good suspension tuning overall. My favorite driving Model S that I've had as a loaner.

Then the dual motor cars launched. I remember the early 85D and P85D having decently firm suspension tuning and steering, reminiscent of the P85+. Not quite as nice driving as P85+ because of the extra motor weight up front, but still good, and you get AWD + more power. (Though the front motor whine was kinda loud on these early cars. They quieted it down a lot by the 100D.)

Additionally some early P85D reportedly had an *extra* firm suspension suspension option, even firmer than P85+. I'm not sure if I had this version as a loaner.

Then around the 90D / P90D era Tesla really softened up the air suspension again, staying quite soft through the 100D / P100D. I last had a P100D as a loaner a year ago. Very quiet, smooth, comfortable ride for highway cruising. Really excellent for that. However an absolute boat through the turns. Too soft, too squishy, and especially too heavy. Could really feel all that extra weight compared to my P85, despite both having similarly soft suspension.

Then came the Raven (approx 2019-2020) (where they dropped the kWh-based badging), which introduced adjustable/adaptive dampers to the Model S (standard on all Ravens I believe). I haven't driven a Raven. From what I've read they're at least as smooth as a (P)100D, and better controlled in turns too, though still very numb feeling (as most Model S are aside from P85+).

The newest Palladium Model S (approx 2021+ with the yoke, new interior, widebody, etc) has updated adjustable dampers (revised or at least retuned since the Raven). I haven't driven a Palladium either. I have ready VERY mixed things here on TMC, some saying they ride as well as any Model S when in comfort mode, and some saying they feel firm excessively firm all the time, too stiff over bumps, no matter the mode, as if the adaptive dampers aren't really adjusting properly. There might be real issues with the adaptive damping on a subset of the Palladium cars.

As a reference point, I have manually adjustable aftermarket dampers (coilovers) on my 2021 M3P, and the difference between soft & stiff settings is very obvious. You KNOW the adjustment is working, there's no missing it. So when some Palladium owners say they can't feel a difference between the comfort and sport modes with their fancy adaptive dampers, I feel like that can't be working properly, because the difference should be obvious.



Edit: Don't ask me where the oddball battery sizes like 70 and 75 fit into this. I've had them as loaners too but I don't remember when they were built or where they fit into this schedule of suspension changes. They are all pre-Raven of course.
 
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tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
2,425
2,119
USA
@tiejia_ev Also the seats in the Model S have varied a lot too. My favorite are the "next gen" (2nd generation ones), and similar subsequent revisions, especially the ones with microfiber for the middle. These were big, comfortable, well shaped, supportive, and had decent bolstering given that it's a Model S (not a little sports sedan). These seats continued into (and through?) the P100D era.

There were even "next gen" bolstered rear seats for a little while, though I think they might have interfered with folding the seats flat.

The 1st gen front seats like in my early 2013 S are the worst. They're not uncomfortable, but they are very slippery with almost no bolstering, and the headrest shape is terrible for trying to nap on.

The Palladium front seats are...alright. (I have sat in a Palladium but not driven one.) Better than my 1st gen S seats, and somewhat better than 3/Y front seat, but not as good as the "next gen" S seats in my opinion. The Palladium seats do have ventilation / cooling though if you care for that.

I'm not sure what the Raven front seats are like, I haven't even been in one that I recall.
 
@tiejia_ev Matters a lot actually. As always with Tesla, to be sure of what you're getting, you really need to test the exact car you're buying. Or if it's a new one, hope that it matches whatever you test drove, assuming you liked the demo car.

The original Model S air suspension, as fitted on 2012-2013 cars (40, 60, 85, P85, but *not* counting the P85+ suspension option of 2013), is pretty soft. Good ride quality. Not the very smoothest out there but it's good. Handles just fine in *casual* driving. Not firm enough for really hard driving like a sports sedan. This is the air suspension my 2013 Model S P85 has. (Note, the base coil spring suspension rode and handled worse than the air suspension. Wholly inferior. I tested coil and air back-to-back when these cars were new.)

Then the P85+ with its "Plus" suspension option launched. This was significantly firmer and sportier than the regular air suspension. Felt like they upgraded bushings as well as dampers + springs. Way better handling, tighter feeling steering, etc. Still rode well, clearly firmer yet still good ride, really just very good suspension tuning overall. My favorite driving Model S that I've had as a loaner.

Then the dual motor cars launched. I remember the early 85D and P85D having decently firm suspension tuning and steering, reminiscent of the P85+. Not quite as nice driving as P85+ because of the extra motor weight up front, but still good, and you get AWD + more power. (Though the front motor whine was kinda loud on these early cars. They quieted it down a lot by the 100D.)

Additionally some early P85D reportedly had an *extra* firm suspension suspension option, even firmer than P85+. I'm not sure if I had this version as a loaner.

Then around the 90D / P90D era Tesla really softened up the air suspension again, staying quite soft through the 100D / P100D. I last had a P100D as a loaner a year ago. Very quiet, smooth, comfortable ride for highway cruising. Really excellent for that. However an absolute boat through the turns. Too soft, too squishy, and especially too heavy. Could really feel all that extra weight compared to my P85, despite both having similarly soft suspension.

Then came the Raven (approx 2019-2020) (where they dropped the kWh-based badging), which introduced adjustable/adaptive dampers to the Model S (standard on all Ravens I believe). I haven't driven a Raven. From what I've read they're at least as smooth as a (P)100D, and better controlled in turns too, though still very numb feeling (as most Model S are aside from P85+).

The newest Palladium Model S (approx 2021+ with the yoke, new interior, widebody, etc) has updated adjustable dampers (revised or at least retuned since the Raven). I haven't driven a Palladium either. I have ready VERY mixed things here on TMC, some saying they ride as well as any Model S when in comfort mode, and some saying they feel firm excessively firm all the time, too stiff over bumps, no matter the mode, as if the adaptive dampers aren't really adjusting properly. There might be real issues with the adaptive damping on a subset of the Palladium cars.

As a reference point, I have manually adjustable aftermarket dampers (coilovers) on my 2021 M3P, and the difference between soft & stiff settings is very obvious. You KNOW the adjustment is working, there's no missing it. So when some Palladium owners say they can't feel a difference between the comfort and sport modes with their fancy adaptive dampers, I feel like that can't be working properly, because the difference should be obvious.



Edit: Don't ask me where the oddball battery sizes like 70 and 75 fit into this. I've had them as loaners too but I don't remember when they were built or where they fit into this schedule of suspension changes. They are all pre-Raven of course.
This is exactly what I was looking for!! Thanks for the detailed information, I can already see myself coming back to this reply before I buying any tesla model S. : )
 
@tiejia_ev Matters a lot actually. As always with Tesla, to be sure of what you're getting, you really need to test the exact car you're buying. Or if it's a new one, hope that it matches whatever you test drove, assuming you liked the demo car.

The original Model S air suspension, as fitted on 2012-2013 cars (40, 60, 85, P85, but *not* counting the P85+ suspension option of 2013), is pretty soft. Good ride quality. Not the very smoothest out there but it's good. Handles just fine in *casual* driving. Not firm enough for really hard driving like a sports sedan. This is the air suspension my 2013 Model S P85 has. (Note, the base coil spring suspension rode and handled worse than the air suspension. Wholly inferior. I tested coil and air back-to-back when these cars were new.)

Then the P85+ with its "Plus" suspension option launched. This was significantly firmer and sportier than the regular air suspension. Felt like they upgraded bushings as well as dampers + springs. Way better handling, tighter feeling steering, etc. Still rode well, clearly firmer yet still good ride, really just very good suspension tuning overall. My favorite driving Model S that I've had as a loaner.

Then the dual motor cars launched. I remember the early 85D and P85D having decently firm suspension tuning and steering, reminiscent of the P85+. Not quite as nice driving as P85+ because of the extra motor weight up front, but still good, and you get AWD + more power. (Though the front motor whine was kinda loud on these early cars. They quieted it down a lot by the 100D.)

Additionally some early P85D reportedly had an *extra* firm suspension suspension option, even firmer than P85+. I'm not sure if I had this version as a loaner.

Then around the 90D / P90D era Tesla really softened up the air suspension again, staying quite soft through the 100D / P100D. I last had a P100D as a loaner a year ago. Very quiet, smooth, comfortable ride for highway cruising. Really excellent for that. However an absolute boat through the turns. Too soft, too squishy, and especially too heavy. Could really feel all that extra weight compared to my P85, despite both having similarly soft suspension.

Then came the Raven (approx 2019-2020) (where they dropped the kWh-based badging), which introduced adjustable/adaptive dampers to the Model S (standard on all Ravens I believe). I haven't driven a Raven. From what I've read they're at least as smooth as a (P)100D, and better controlled in turns too, though still very numb feeling (as most Model S are aside from P85+).

The newest Palladium Model S (approx 2021+ with the yoke, new interior, widebody, etc) has updated adjustable dampers (revised or at least retuned since the Raven). I haven't driven a Palladium either. I have ready VERY mixed things here on TMC, some saying they ride as well as any Model S when in comfort mode, and some saying they feel firm excessively firm all the time, too stiff over bumps, no matter the mode, as if the adaptive dampers aren't really adjusting properly. There might be real issues with the adaptive damping on a subset of the Palladium cars.

As a reference point, I have manually adjustable aftermarket dampers (coilovers) on my 2021 M3P, and the difference between soft & stiff settings is very obvious. You KNOW the adjustment is working, there's no missing it. So when some Palladium owners say they can't feel a difference between the comfort and sport modes with their fancy adaptive dampers, I feel like that can't be working properly, because the difference should be obvious.



Edit: Don't ask me where the oddball battery sizes like 70 and 75 fit into this. I've had them as loaners too but I don't remember when they were built or where they fit into this schedule of suspension changes. They are all pre-Raven of course.
As a side note, I am a very casual driver, and mostly enjoyed just cruising on the road rather than some hard driving. I want to try electricity vehicles and ride quality is my number one priority.
 
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The Model S rides much smoother than Model 3 due to longer wheel base as well. They are world class freeway cruisers. Available in coil springs, traditional air, adaptable shock air and updated adaptable air shocks. Earler cars also had Performance coil springs for the firmest ride.
 

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