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Red Hands of Shame

Discussion in 'Model S' started by MDMGSO47, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. MDMGSO47

    MDMGSO47 Member

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    Guilty, your honor.

    Saturday afternoon, we were on our way to a football game in Chapel Hill from Greensboro (Tar Heels win on a last second touchdown after a remarkable 4th quarter comeback), and this was the first trip after the 8.0 update.
    Everything on AP worked fine on I-40. I did notice that the hands on wheel nag was a little more frequent and louder. We turned off of on Highway 54, which is a wide, well marked two lane, undivided highway. AP was limited to five mile over the speed limit (which was generally 55) but since there was a fair amount of traffic we weren't going to be going very fast anyway. The hands on wheel nag came more frequently for no apparent reason.

    We had the radio on and everyone was talking, and the next thing I knew, the dreaded red hands of shame were flashing on my display. Sure enough, no more AP until we stopped and put the car in park. I generally don't use AP on a two lane road because of the speed limitation. The fact that we were on a two lane road may have made the warning system more sensitive and naggy. If this cut off feature and nag are going to activate this quickly on the interstate, it is definitely doing to be a detraction for me
     
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  2. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Wait, you're saying this happened with your hands on the steering wheel?
     
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  3. MDMGSO47

    MDMGSO47 Member

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    Actually, yes. I almost always have my left hand at 10:00 on the steering wheel.
     
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  4. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Very weird. I drove about a hundred miles on 8.0 AP yesterday morning with my right hand wrapped around the steering wheel (light touch) and got zero nags, none. While reading your story I noticed you were getting repeated audible nags which only happen if you don't respond to the visual warnings. It really sounded to me like you had to be hands free plus you didn't see the alert on the dash or at least didn't respond to it so if that's not true something is wrong. Maybe your car needs to be calibrated?
     
  5. tls

    tls Member

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    I wonder if the torque sensor on his car is bad.
     
  6. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Interestingly, at low (45mph) speeds 8.0 seems to be very forgiving of hands off the wheel, even around curves and such.
    Go figure.
     
  7. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    The torque sensor is shared with the power steering system and if it wasn't working the vehicle would throw plenty of warning lights on the dash and power steering wouldn't work (there may be a failsafe mode that provides some assistance but you wouldn't mistake it for ok operation.)
     
  8. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    The car cannot sense your hands on the wheel. Now a lot of people are ham fisted and cannot help but apply torque to the wheel. For the rest of us, you have to actively try and give it input for it to detect you.
     
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  9. MDMGSO47

    MDMGSO47 Member

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    I'm beginning to wonder the same thing. I have to actually turn the wheel to turn off the nag. Simple pressure on the wheel doesn't seem to do it.

    Where does everyone else put your hand(s) to avoid the nag.
     
  10. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    If the sensor was bad, your power steering would not work and you would know it. See my post immediately above.
     
  11. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    For everyone's edification, the steering wheel does NOT sense your touch. It senses torque (i.e. twisting/turning force). The car must sense that you're pushing/turning the wheel slightly in either direction to register that you have your hands on the wheel. Just resting your hands on the wheel or lightly holding it will NOT trip the sensor.

    The best ways to accomplish this are:
    • Grip the wheel at the 9-10 o'clock position with your left hand, and let gravity slightly pull your hand downwards. This places counter-clockwise torque on the wheel. I find it helpful in this position to rest my left elbow on the door sill, near the window.
    • If your arms are long enough, you can do the same thing on the right hand side of the wheel at the 2-3 o'clock position and rest your right elbow on the center console.
    • Place right or left hand in your lap or on your knee, grab wheel at 5 o'clock or 7 o'clock positions, hand facing up. Let gravity or your natural tendency to pull your hand towards your body exert torque on the wheel. Note that I don't recommend this position in traffic -- use this only on the open highway. Grabbing the wheel at the bottom is not good practice because of the tendency for most people to jerk the wheel the wrong direction in an emergency.
    I just completed a 1500 mile drive (Houston, TX -> Palm Springs, CA), under 7.1 and used this opportunity to train myself to hold the wheel for long periods in preparation for the 8.0 rollout. Using these methods I was able to go the entire trip with only 2 nags, and both were the first visual-only nag.

    I just received 8.0 yesterday, so I will be driving the 1500 mile trip back this weekend under 8.0.
     
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  12. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    According to @Ingineer , who usually knows, there is no need to actively turn the wheel. The car is constantly making minor,
    often imperceptible, steering adjustments and all you need to do is passively resist those adjustments by having your hand(s)
    on the wheel, providing inertial resistance (i.e., negative torque) to its turning.
     
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  13. MDMGSO47

    MDMGSO47 Member

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    I usually use the left handed 10 o'clock method with an occasional right hand 5 0'clock method break when my left arm needs to change angles for awhile. I do not find pushing, pulling or squeezing the steering wheel has any effect. A slight rotation in either direction is required.
     
  14. MGMDaware

    MGMDaware Member

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    Just throwing in my 2 cents . . . . On long trips, I usually keep my left hand somewhere around 7-9 o'clock position (with left elbow either on lap or on the door rest) . I infrequently get the nags with a somewhat firm grip, but do get nags if I lightly touch. I used to think that there was a pressure sensor, but as @RogerHScott pointed out as stated by @Ingineer . . . . the small, imperceptible resistance a firmer grip might give makes more sense.
     
  15. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    Nice response. I use this resistance technique a lot when on roadtrips. I will relax my forearm(s) on my knees or armrest but still have one or both hands on the wheel holding on fairly lightly just enough to provide resistance (vs torque down).

    I don't like the torque down because if auto-steer/pilot goes off I may be close enough to something car/ledge/etc that the car veers just enough to cause a "problem".
     
  16. uberanalyst

    uberanalyst Member

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    Or you can just do this:
     
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  17. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    *imperceptible to some people. Not to anyone with fine motor control, let's say somehow who spent a lot of their younger years playing FPS. Like I said above, a lot of you have basically large hams for hands, and don't even know it.
     
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  18. Apricot

    Apricot The waiting... the waiting...

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    I put hands at 5 and 7 o'clock (actually was taught to do that by traffic safety instructor - he said otherwise you might get arms in face on airbag deploy). It's comfortable and I never turn the wrong way.

    I have gotten exactly one nag in about 100 miles on 8.0. (I'm also quite good at FPS and other video games so I'm not ham-fisted!) I keep hands very lightly on the wheel, but every so often there is a stretch that I steer along with the car and maybe that's been enough to avoid the penalty box.

    I wish one of the super-nagged drivers could sit with a Tesla engineer to help calibrate... it sounds like a completely different car!
     
  19. MGMDaware

    MGMDaware Member

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    ham.jpg
     
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  20. int32_t

    int32_t Tesla Spotter

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    FYI: don't drink and drive. Your car will stop steering itself.
     
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