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Reddit story on FWD opening on highway at 65mph.

Discussion in 'Model X' started by MXWing, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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  2. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

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    A local OC owner...shocking!!
     
  3. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    #3 MXWing, Jun 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
    You and I use the same service center referenced. I felt they were competent and good people.

    Does anyone know if this guy is a part of OC Tesla or actually know the person? You want to get to the bottom of such things with an open mind.

    I'll be annoyed if some Seeking Alpha bears writes some article like FWD swings wide open risk of passengers flying out.

    That motor can't push 1/12th an inch past wind resistance (assuming it even opened?)
     
  4. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

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    Yup, I know the manager he is communicating with at Costa Mesa SC.

    Good point! Very rare to have something like this occur
     
  5. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    Can you comment if there is anything to this story at all? Do Tesla logs show anything like when/if the doors open and how much and at what speeds?
     
  6. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

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    I have no additional info about this story (know as much as you do). I am sure the logs keep a note of this as when my front door wouldn't close the SC requested the time it occurred so they could check the logs
     
  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    It's very puzzling to a non-owner since all our cars automatically lock all the doors when moving.
    And to keep kids from playing with the doors and windows, there is a child lockout.
     
  8. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    An uncommanded opening while driving seems like a very unlikely failure considering the safety systems in place. The doors automatically lockout when it switches to drive (unless unlocked again on the center screen,) and the door is apparently pretty heavy according to folks that have used the emergency release. The latch is the same sort used in powered rear hatches I believe.

    One possible clue is that they apparently tried to open the door repeatedly without success shortly beforehand. Possibly it was in some sort of half unlatched state and still trying to open, and body flex while driving unjammed it and it went to complete the opening cycle? That wouldn't be the desirable thing for it to do at that point, but it's the only way I can see the described behavior happening.

    No matter how it started, grabbing the handle and yanking on it should have triggered the force sensors and stopped the motors and limited the door opening, at which point the door should have been closable electronically.
     
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  9. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    If you actually read the thread, it's written by a woman. I'm sure her husband is 'there' but she's the one handling the story on Reddit for whatever reason. Most reddittors missed that also.

    JonMc is on the case, so it should be handled. But as usual, hate to see things get to *this* point.

    I would like to see logs, also, as I wonder if a kid's foot could reach the button from a car seat. Is this physically possible? And are the FWDs actually locked from button (physical) presses while in motion? Doesn't explain software/hardware failure of course!
     
  10. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    Even the law of physics would make this an impossibility - were we want to entertain the door thinking it can open to full height if the sensors detected no obstruction?
     
  11. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    ??? Maybe you could rephrase that? I don't think I understand what you're trying to say.
     
  12. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    #12 boaterva, Jun 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
    BTW, I'd personally recommend changing your settings to close on triple click. :D

    Whoops, didn't see you said it triple clicked in your pocket. Now, that's a trick!
     
  13. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    If you have a car that allows you to do so, try to force it open driving at high speeds. The wind will push against you not allowing it to open.

    Between
    1.) wind resistance described above
    2.) power of fwd motors
    3.) weight of fwd doors
    4.) action to push out and up
    5.) no use case "mechanisms" to trigger fwd when moving.

    I just find the whole thing very improbable if not impossible?
     
  14. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    For a conventional front hinged door, wind will push the door closed. I'm not sure it'll have much effect on the FWD, though. It might even pull the door out just a little, though the weight would of course keep it from lifting unless the motors are driving it.
     
  15. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    With reports of FWD having issues opening in the snow? (I paid little attention unfortunately in my climate) no way that power overcomes wind resistance.

    I'll be pissed if the fwd is powered by a p100dl drivetrain while I get measly x60d at the wheels.
     
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  16. BioSehnsucht

    BioSehnsucht Member

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    While under forward motion, the air flowing around the body would push a normal door closed, but a suicide door would want to open once "caught" by the wind. A door that opens vertically is unlikely to be affected much either way, there might be a slight pull due to lower air pressure along the side of the vehicle as the air is moving faster outside than in (same principle that makes a wing work), but if it opened enough for the front and back to both be in the airstream, that should more or less null out as it's not particularly wing shaped plus quite heavy and motor resistance (I don't think you could get the car moving fast enough to pull the door open due to aerodynamic forces even if the latch mechanism was defeated, much less get it to continue opening once both sides are in the air stream - and those who have tried to manually open it have reported it is quite difficult to raise manually).

    If this actually happened, the only way it likely to have happened is if the motor was trying to open the door for some reason, though unless someone commanded it with a button press should not have occurred (as any previous attempt to open it, having failed, should have timed out and/or triggered force sensors and aborted the motor's attempt to open the door long before getting on the road), even if road flex caused it to "pop free" from a improperly latched / unlatched state.

    TL;DR : I think (assuming the event happened) either some kind of software bug or someone commanded door to open, as merely driving on the road is unlikely to suck a door open even if left unlatched.
     
  17. rjdoc74

    rjdoc74 Member

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    It really irritates me when owners who post stories like this get immediately attacked and their concerned dismissed by die hard tesla fans. No matter what caused this, we have to remember we are dealing with a computer on wheels here for which we are all beta testers.

    Case in point, few months ago one of the FWD started to close unexpectedly and shortly after existing the car my wife (holding my one year old daughter) got hit on the neck by the door edge before it finally stopped and bounced back. And no, I did not accidentally press the top button on the remote, I am 100% sure of that. I posted my story on Tesla Facebook page and got viciously attacked by Tesla fanboys as a lier, cry baby, etc.

    Point is, give the owner benefit of a doubt please.
     
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  18. travwill

    travwill Active Member

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    I often doubt a lot of these posts and assume there is a reason for the error - usually a remote press, user error, etc. BUT, having owned an X here for a while, they don't always operate like you would expect. There are bugs in the software, the sensors don't react to the exact same environment the same each time, etc.

    We've set our FWDs and trunk for example to open to a max heigh and sensors detected the garage fine for months but one time they decided to go full blown up and wham, a surprise paint battle between garage / doors. Have had the doors bounce back and forth at times in wind, sometimes front door decides it doesn't want to let me out of car hehehe, etc. The doors on the MX are really its amazing attractor, but also its downfall in complexity.

    After saying all that, I think as we see 1000s hit the road now that there are some legitimate scenarios probably where the car screws up. Best of luck on lemon laws as Tesla and its arbitration process is solid, lemon law states some tough guidelines, but keep in mind that Tesla does have excellent service usually (from my experience the best) and doesn't take anything safety related as a 2nd though.

    -T
     
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  19. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    #19 MXWing, Jun 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
    Straw man. No one attacked the owner here, you are projecting your own experience to this thread.

    We all want to know what really happened. Until proven otherwise , it's the preponderance of the evidence points to this unlikely.

    However, I am very sorry your wife was hurt and it must of been beyond traumatic with her holding your small child. That deserves sympathy regardless of how it happened. It would have been tragic if your kid was dropped. This is certainly a con and a risk of doors that go up and down versus a minivan that slides left to right.

    Was it repeatable that fwd came down unexpectedly? Where was the fob at the moment it happened? I swear it can trigger when I'm exiting the car due to just tautness of fabric on the fob when in motion. Doesn't happen when I hold the fob when exiting.
     
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  20. rjdoc74

    rjdoc74 Member

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    Thank you for free psychoanalysis, but not necessary. I am not projecting anything.

    I am not looking for input for my issue, I included it as case in point.

    My point was I frequently run across issues posted by Tesla owners on Reddit, Facebook, TMC, etc. where owners concerns are quickly dismissed because Tesla is the greatest thing that ever happened to mankind, it makes perfect cars and it is always the owner's fault.
     
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