300 miles isn't conservative on a P3D considering the rated range with 20" rims is 299 brand new. You aren't going to get anywhere near 299 blasting down the highway even in summer. Sounds like the SC was speaking to real world range on a road trip, which usually means interstate.
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Reduced Range - Tesla Issued a Service Bulletin for possible fix
- Thread starter shiv987
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300 miles isn't conservative on a P3D considering the rated range with 20" rims is 299 brand new. You aren't going to get anywhere near 299 blasting down the highway even in summer. Sounds like the SC was speaking to real world range on a road trip, which usually means interstate.
navguy12
Active Member
I am NOT being facetious:
Run an experiment on a nice, sunny afternoon (only with no expected precipitation).
Change your SOC icon to read % instead of miles
Fill it to 100%, waiting the last 45 minutes between 99% and 100%...in other words, don't disconnect until the charge event is over.
Plan a drive where you can safely maintain 65 mph (about 102 kph) on roads that don't involve much elevation changes.
When you are charged to 100%, reset your trip odometer to zero.
Drive the car away from home base, at no more than 65 mph, on flat terrain, on a clear sunny day with no rain, until the display reads 50%.
Turn around, put home base into the nav kit, bring the map display up to show the whole route, which will display the estimated % SOC at destination icon next to your ETA.
Start driving back to home base, paying attention to the % SOC remaining at destination icon.
In theory, you'll start the home bound trip with the nav system telling you to stop at a supercharger, but "remove supercharger stops" and keep driving...but start to slow down so that the % SOC remaining at destination icon number starts to rise...to let's say 5%.
Keep slowing down until your nav system is happy that you will arrive back home with 5%.
When you arrive at home, your trip odometer is going to tell you what 95% of your "usable battery capacity" is based on the miles driven and the Wh/mile (do the math as the figure on the UI rounds up/down to the nearest whole kWh.
Take that number and multiply by (100/95) 1.0526 (if you used 95% battery capacity) to come up with a reasonable estimate of your usable battery capacity.
Then, take photos of that odometer reading AND the odometer that shows "since last charge" (they should read the same)...as evidence of what your usable capacity is.
Present those numbers to some other service center that won't charge $150.
Thanks, I'll do that. Also, I forgot to mention( I don't have pics which is why ill do it again) I have done something similar and only got 41 kWh used when I went on a road trip 100%-5%) which would indicate that I only have a usable battery of 43.5 minus any hidden battery storage . which is kinda trippy since this battery should hold about 53-54kwh or 60(depends on who says what) Have a good day
My p3d- usually shows 288/289 max charge on the app slider. I decided to actually do 100% charge for a trip one day and it recalibrated. Now it will show max 293mi. It's still no where near 310 or even 322.
19" 2020 p3d- with 9000mi
Typically I leave it on energy and don't stress over the range on that epa number. I go with the nav and trip energy screens.
19" 2020 p3d- with 9000mi
Typically I leave it on energy and don't stress over the range on that epa number. I go with the nav and trip energy screens.
navguy12
Active Member
I also leave my LR RWD set to energy.
When new, my car would show 499 km at 100%
26 months and 50,000 km later, it shows 505 km and still topping off (shot taken four days ago):
Later that same day (granted, at only 90 kph), 50% provided 260 km of distance driven:
Not included in the 35 kWh (for 50% used) showing in the trip odometer: a lunch stop and a shopping stop, with the shopping stop having me remain in the air conditioned car for about 10 minutes.
Temperatures were 30C to 33C.
More due to your efficiency. How fast etc. The cars are rated for ?62mph? But no one drives that slow in the states. I usually 70-75mph
navguy12
Active Member
Agreed, the 260 km distance covered for half of the available energy that is stored is a function of driving at 90 kph versus 110 kph.
However, AFAIK, the 505 km at 100% is based on a hard value (rated range (149 Wh/km) less the unusable portion of the stored energy) multiplied by available stored energy.
Even if I drove the trip at 130 kph, the next top up (assuming same meteorological and battery package conditions) to 100% should show the same 505 km.
My situation is very similar. And the range loss happened at 1700 miles as well. My car is only a couple of months old. Of course Tesla says it’s fine, but I’m pissed. I paid for 322 miles on range and would like that back. Tesla says my range loss is due to my not driving much and AC usage. My previous model 3 LR RWD. Never exhibited this. I’m calling BS on Tesla.
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wstamaria
Member
I have a M3P I am also having similar problems. At 1709mi, i was showing 295mi max range. Since then, i've fallen off a cliff. Though the app i requested that they check out my battery. They did a remote Battery health check and i was told that it is a balancing issue and that my pack is fine. The tech recommended that i discharge to 10%, then charge to 90% for a few months. (standard copy and paste response if you ask me) He also mentioned, and i quote from the email
"Also keep in mind that you do have 20 Inch wheels and you are driving a little more excessive than Tesla standards, you are at 358 wh/mi, Our standard is 285 wh/mi. "
I guess it made sense at the time so i let it go.
A few weeks pass and i notice that my range after charge is getting. On the last charge i did, i went to 90%, put the car into chill mode, and commuted to work (60 miles round trip) with Cruise set at 70 mph. I ran the battery down to 3% and got 194.5mi at 276 wh/mi. with 54 kWh being used.
Unless my math is wrong, this calculates to a 62kWh of usable battery with a max miles from 100% at 223.5mi.
Is my math wrong? How can this be explained as normal?
Here's an update on mine. Mine had gotten pretty bad, reporting down to 271 at 100%. (Low point 9th April)
However, over the last few months, it has recovered remarkably, and is now up to 296! Which is down on the 307 I saw initially, but
The MAJOR difference, over this time, is that I'm not commuting to work, most of the time the car is idle, and is mainly used on short trips. It's also a bit warmer at night when it's charging, but probably not significantly different. (60f vs 80f)
Difficult to assign any definitive reason to this, but it could reinforce what Tesla has said, about the car taking your driving habits into account over time.
Also gives me confidence that when Tesla has said, there is nothing wrong with the pack, then they are correct.
However, over the last few months, it has recovered remarkably, and is now up to 296! Which is down on the 307 I saw initially, but
The MAJOR difference, over this time, is that I'm not commuting to work, most of the time the car is idle, and is mainly used on short trips. It's also a bit warmer at night when it's charging, but probably not significantly different. (60f vs 80f)
Difficult to assign any definitive reason to this, but it could reinforce what Tesla has said, about the car taking your driving habits into account over time.
Also gives me confidence that when Tesla has said, there is nothing wrong with the pack, then they are correct.
Here's my takeaway from all this. When you go to sell your car, a smart buyer will ask you "How much range do you have left?" The correct answer is, "Hang on, let me charge it up to 100%"
How come nobody has spikes on their charts like me? Am I the only one that got those software updates?
How come nobody has spikes on their charts like me? Am I the only one that got those software updates?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I would start with a simpler trial that presumes that the Wh/mile meter is reasonably accurate:
- Set the battery display to % remaining
- Charge up to 90%
- Reset the trip meter
- Go for a nice highway drive of 100 - 150 miles. Drive anyway you want, and use A/C if desired
- Note the change in SoC at the end of the drive as a whole number. E.g. SoC of 90 down to 50 would be 40 -- dSOC.
Calculate
0.1 * Wh_consumed / dSOC
for a pretty good estimate of usable kWh of the car's full battery
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--Went to my service appointment today, I feel it went rather well. What I've wanted from the beginning is for Tesla to show true concern for this issue and resolve to take a very close look at my car and my battery. They did so at this appointment, and the service technicians and managers at the Houston Westchase service center are, and have always been, really good at what they do.
I was able to show them several items:
1. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my 9/2018 build P3D is at around 10.8 % at 34,000 miles.
2. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my wife's 4/2018 build 3LR is at around 2.0 % at 21,000 miles.
3. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my previous 4/2015 build Modem S 85D was at around 4.5 % when the vehicle was turned in after it's 3-year lease (04/2018) with 65,000 miles.
4. I showed the following copies of service bulletins that reference mistakes that were made in HV battery construction for the Model 3 in 2018:
Based on the affected vehicle build dates given in each service bulletin, the only two of these that could have applied to my car are the last two, SB-18-16-010 and SB-19-16-009. My car build date was verified as 9/13/2018, thus neither of those service bulletins should apply to my car, but the service manager opened a case with the virtual tech team to verify that that is indeed the case. He reasoned that since the build date is so close to SB-19-16-009, it warrants being double-checked.
- SB-18-16-012 - Battery monitor boards attached with insufficient adhesive
- SB-18-16-017 - Cooling tubes insufficiently brazed
- SB-19-16-003 - Incorrectly wire-bonded cells
- SB-18-16-009 R1 - Missing battery breather valves
- SB-18-16-013 - Missing battery positive contactor mounting nuts
- SB-19-16-004 - Incorrectly fastened clamshell graft
- SB-18-16-010 - Missing cell wire bonds
- SB-19-16-009 - Missing cell interconnects
Now, not all of these service bulletins describe a defect that would affect range, but a number of them do. I made the argument that the sheer number of service bulletins (eight) involving mistakes in battery construction warrant a very careful look at my battery as well as the entire Model 3 fleet of batteries. It points to a situation where that in 2018, Tesla's battery production rate was exceeding their ability to maintain quality control. I made the argument that due to the low quality control during this build period, there could be additional battery construction mistakes that have yet to be discovered, and probably cannot be automatically detected by the car's software, since software can only detect what it's programmed to detect. They agreed that additional scrutiny is warranted, and my case with the virtual tech team is going to have them perform an in-depth examination on my battery.
I do not expect that they will discover something new in my battery, but my purpose here with this appointment was to make sure that everything that can be looked at has been. I am now satisfied that that is being done.
I do however, want them to explain why an identical battery has only 1/5th the degredation of mine, and that a previous-generation battery that is 3 years older than mine has 1/2 the degredation at twice the number of miles. They said they will do their best to have an explanation of these items after my battery is examined.
By the way, the official measure that Tesla uses to track this is called the "Battery Retention" by their software, and is given in percentage. It is the amount of energy that the battery can hold at the current time compared to the amount of energy it could hold when it was brand new. It's calculated as:
RMn = Rated Miles new, RMc = Rated Miles current.
My battery is at about 91% Battery Retention, which corresponds nicely with the TeslaFi.com graphs, although TeslaFi.com reports this in a different way -- it reports as miles lost as a percent of current capacity.
Also, the service manager did give me the standard disclaimer that 3rd-party software tools are not "accepted" by Tesla as evidence. I expected this, and my response was that A) just because they're 3rd-party doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, they correlate nicely with Tesla's own tools. And B) the data there is not made up or measured -- it's Tesla's own data being reported by the car, obtained through their own API. So I'm not sure was not being "accepted" means, as it's the car's own numbers. I think the service manager fully understood this, but was giving me the disclaimer because he's required to.
The case that is open with the virtual tech team now has copies of all of my graphs and reference to all of the service bulletins, and is assigned to their lead virtual tech. I'm happy with this response, as it's showing me that they do care about this issue, and want to do everything they can to assure me that the car is working properly. The service manager also stated that my battery is fully warranted, and if a problem develops later that meets the criteria of excessive degredation, that Tesla will be happy to replace the battery. He did not mention numbers or the threshholds for that criteria, but I believe he was genuine in this response.
Anyway, while it's not likely that I'm going to get a new battery or anything, I'm happy that the service center here in Houston still has great customer service, and genuinely wants me to be happy, unlike some of the people on the phone from California who tried to tell me that I was simply driving too fast on summer tires.
Note that I do not recommend that everyone who has a concern about their battery capacity schedule a service visit and present gobs of service bulletins and graphs, as it's likely not going to result in anything being done to your car. I would recommend that you check the service bulletins, and if your car has a build date that falls in the service bulletin's range, that you schedule a service appointment specifically for that. It is a fact that there were many battery construction mistakes that were made in 2018, and if your car is affected, you can get it fixed. But don't clog up Tesla's service centers if you're not affected.
I hope this helps others.
This is awesome, nice work.
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