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Reduced supercharge speed on 100D?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Testwa, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. Testwa

    Testwa Member

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    The reduced supercharge speed on 90D's has been discussed for quite a while.
    Is anyone aware of 100D is affected as well? The 100D is less than 2 years on the market so probably not too many cars out there with heavy supercharging like 200 times.
    The 90D with 86kWh battery has a high charging rate of 1,4C while supercharging at 120kW (120/86=1,4). Once the 90D is reduced to ~95kW charging, the factor is reduced to ~1,1C (95/86). So now the 100D with 102kWh battery pack would not even hit 1,2C at a 120kW supercharger (120/102<1,2). Meaning the 100D has almost the "slow" charging rate of a reduced 90D. And if the 100D would be also reduced to 1,1C the difference to 1,2C would not be that big and noticeable like on the 90D from 1,4C to 1,1C.
    That would be just my theory. Any experience?
     
  2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    No. Just think of the 90D as a failed cell design that Tesla abandoned. They made changes to the 90D Supercharging to protect them as much as possible from degradation.

    Doesn't affect the 100Ds.
     
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  3. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    Your analysis is spot on. If you take the 75D, we see similar effect. It starts out close to 100kw charging and then after heavy usage, tapers to 89kw max which is around 1.2C. We dont see as many complain because the 75 are use to the slow charging. If tesla had the 100D when my 90D was around with free unlimited supercharging I would've gone with that to be safe.

    But keep in mind once supercharge V3 comes out then I suspect the 100D might experience similar situation as the 90D if trsla allow uncapped supercharging. However I suspect tesla would be smart and keep the cap to be 120Kw as this is plenty fast for the 1st gen supercharging.
     
  4. Naonak

    Naonak Member

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    Yep, this seems like the right answers to me. I wish I had known about the 90 packs when I bought my car. I would have opted for the 85s. Fortunately, when I bought a replacement for my wifes P85, I went with the P85D. She basically gets the same range I do and no throttling. The 90 packs are a pig-in-a-poke.
     
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  5. lymex2018

    lymex2018 Member

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    The max charge rate of normal 18650 cells seldom exceed 1C.
    Sony US18650NC1, capacity 2.9Ah, standard charge 1A?, max. charge current 2A
    Sony US18650VC7, capacity 3.5Ah, charge current 1A, max. charge current 2A?
    Panasonic NCR18650BD, capacity 3.2Ah, standard charge 0.9A, max. charge current 1.5A
    Sanyo/Pana NCR18650GA, capacity 3.5Ah, standard charge 1.675A, max. charge current 3.35A?

    The cells in a 100D are customer-made:
    Panasonic Tesla 100D, capacity 3.4Ah, standard charge 2A?, max. charge current 4A?

    I've seen a charge current of 320A on my 100D which is 3.72A per cell. If the max charge current of 90D is the same, then the cell charge current would be 3.72*86/74=4.32A, bigger than any NCA 18650 cells I know. This may explain why Tesla reduce supercharge speed, and also explain why 90D may degrade more than others.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. Jverhelst

    Jverhelst Member

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    Mine tapers of to around 90kw at 50% SOC since the last firmware update.. used to be able to charge to 70% SOC before tapering to 90kw
     
  7. lita

    lita New Member

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    I have a new 100D and have never seen rates above 100kw for more than 2.minutes.... I have been alone on the SC. Is this normal? 20190809_083646.jpg
     
  8. Tony310

    Tony310 2018 MS 100D

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    I have a late 2018 100D and have gotten up to 130KW at about 20% SOC. But, it depends on the supercharger. Before the recent upgrades rolled out, I would get 118KW consistently until about 30-40% SOC before it started to taper. So, your situation is likely the supercharger -- not the car. If it's happening at low SOC at multiple superchargers where others are seeing higher charge rates, then perhaps it is your car and you should call Tesla.
     
  9. Jverhelst

    Jverhelst Member

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    So you also see a slower Charging rate in the 100D pack ?
     
  10. digistyl3

    digistyl3 Member

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    I recently updated from 2019.12.2 to 2019.24.4, and I’m seeing a very steep taper suddenly. I used to charge with more than 100kW at 60% SOC, but now it maxes out at 70kW. I tried on two different Superchargers and an Ionity CCS charger.

    At Ionity, I was able to charge with 137kW up to 30%, after which the taper started.

    I have a late 2017 S 100D.
     
    • Informative x 1
  11. digistyl3

    digistyl3 Member

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    Today the taper was much better: 83kW at 60%. I did drive 100-120mph on the Autobahn yesterday, so maybe the cells were too hot, resulting in a more conservative charging curve.
     
  12. TMeister

    TMeister Gearhead

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    I've seen this behavior recently. It starts out great, reduces quickly, floats around 60 and then tapers. Here's my latest session from 8/14 starting at 17% up to 95%. Was trying to see what the top end was. After completing the charge to 100% the next day, well 99.9% my cells top out at 4.172v. So maybe some voltage reduction is happening just like on 85 batteries. My 100% has really settled in at 320 rated miles.

    I did have navigation in use to get to the SuC but no battery heat happened. Not until the session started (faint yellow line). It's also interesting to look at the battery pumps. For the whole part where charging should remain high, the pump is running and cell temperature is slowly rising. But just prior to that drop the battery temp slope is high so maybe this is a recovery mode to get the battery temp under control.

    Also, note that the whole session takes 80 minutes. This is longer than in past sessions.

    SuC Session.JPG
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. Tony8489

    Tony8489 Member

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    The abrupt drop down to the 60kW range after 5-10 minutes is very likely due to overheating of the supercharger cable. This problem was rampant in summer 2017 and there were lengthy threads about it. The overheating is a function of constant use at busy chargers but summer heat is an aggravating factor. In 2017 I would monitor the kW rate and move the car to another stall if it crashed to 60kW. The cable at the crashing charger was usually hot to the touch when I removed it.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. TMeister

    TMeister Gearhead

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    That's good data! My sessions were on the same pedestal (2A at the Boise SuC). I did clean the contacts before starting but did not test the cable temps during the session. I will bring my IR temp meter next session and use a different pedestal.
     
  15. lita

    lita New Member

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    I tried a different supercharger the other day and it gave me much more pleasant numbers :) It stabilized between 105 an 117KW from around 23 to 45 before dropping slowly under 100. Didn't need more so stopped charging at around 50%. I'm happy.
     
  16. analRaviOli

    analRaviOli Member

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    I have a 2014 P85+ and i went to my local SC yesterday as my G/F lives close to the main one where i live on Long Island. I observed a speed of only 96kW for rouhgly 1 to 2 mins before it tapered down VERY fast to 85, then 72kW for a while before i stopped it. I need to add that as mentioned above, the heat was very high this weekend roughly 96 degrees.
     
  17. Tony310

    Tony310 2018 MS 100D

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    I don't. But, I do notice significant differences in charging speed depending on the day and the Supercharger -- even at different stalls within the same Supercharger station. But, I just charged at Woodland hills this past weekend and got up to 141KW starting with about 25% SOC. Within 11 minutes (just long enough for a bathroom break and to get some drinks) it added 87 miles of range (~51% SOC) and had tapered down to 104KW. So, I was very pleased with this.
     

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