Reduced torque after half shaft and clevis mount replacement to fix acceleration judder/rattle?

[mikegee]

After 3 tries I finally got Tesla to fix the infamous acceleration judder/rattle in my 2019 P100D. The fix worked, but I just can't shake the feeling that I've lost some torque. Unfortunately, given my less than ideal experiences with Tesla Service in the past, I am suspicious that they may have nerfed the power a bit as well, or in place of actually doing any sort of fix. I'm not sure how I could ever prove this, but I wanted to see if anyone else here had this fix done and notices reduced torque. I have seen a couple mentions of it around. Was hoping to bring them to light.

Also, see the photo below. Not sure how conclusive this is considering how many external factors could be at play but the set of peaks on the very right side are a series of hard accelerations immediately *after* the half shafts and clevis mount had been replaced. As you can see, I can't get the power anywhere near where I could prior to the fix. I'll continue to test, and may see if I can an official 0-60 to see if it's all in my imagination. Will also ask Tesla to see if they come right out and say they did anything. The invoice (it was covered under warranty) does not mention any other work besides replacing the half shafts and clevis mount.

 

[mxnym]

The energy usage history doesn't tell you anything, because the earlier set of peaks could easily have been experienced in different conditions. That having been said, the bar that shows current energy consumption on that chart should be accurate, and manipulating it would presumably be criminal. IOW, if it goes up to 400 the same way it did before, then you are drawing the same amount of power out of the battery during the acceleration. Beyond that, I'm not sure how/why you think you're getting less torque, as it stands to reason that the power output would have to be limited when the shudder was occurring, and in my experience with a 100D (not P like yours), acceleration definitely felt much better after the fix. If it feels slower, it could be due to it being smoother, or it could actually be slower because it was so sloppy before that more power is actually required to move the now tight components.

 

[VikH]

You can get peak power output when in Ludi++ mode. Put car in Ludicrous++ by holding the Ludicrous+ button for a few seconds, then accept the disclaimer. Wait for the car to pre-heat battery. Put car in Very Low suspension. Find a remote area and enable Launch mode. Accelerate to 60 or higher mph and take a picture of peak power.

I think my non-Raven does over 515 kW peak power.

 

[ReGenesis]

Hello Mike,

1st poster here, and unfortunately the reason for my 1st post is..... you are correct! I recently had my 1/2 shafts replaced and Clevis Mount added per the service bulletin https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10162295-9999.pdf and I immediately noticed a reduction in torque. It is especially noticeable when accelerating from a dead start, or when I am on the freeway trying to pass people. I have a late 2018 P100D with 70K miles so I have an immense amount of time behind the wheel of a 1.5yr old car. I drive 200+ miles each day and I definitely have a lead foot, hence my purchase of the performance version.

I have searched endlessly on this topic over the last few weeks as I knew I my car performed differently from when I dropped it off at the SC for the update but before I addressed with my SC I wanted to have all my ducks in a row. A few things I found when doing research:

• Apparently when the service update occurs there is a firmware update as well, which reduces the torque upon initial acceleration. I found this from a post by @deletescam May 28 2019.
• Supposedly when the car is in Low or Very Low this reduction in torque is not supposed to occur. I only drive on Low so this is not the case. I was able to find this info from several posts on this forum.

Perhaps this is something we need to collectively bring to the attention of TESLA as I am FURIOUS! I have lost performance and it makes it even worse that there was no mention of this firmware update by my SC, nor was it listed in my Service Agreement after I picked up the car. Not sure if Jon McNeill @JonMc is still President of Global Sales and Service but I read a post from 2017 where @Tech_Guy stated he and others experienced reductions of power and they had to select 'Max Battery' to enable full Ludicrous power. Tech_Guy was able to prove the power reductions and added @JonMc to the thread, and 11 months later TESLA reversed the software update. I also read that another owner @azdryheat filed a lawsuit via Arizona Attorney General. Unfortunately this may be the route we need to go. Hopefully we hear from Jon and this software limitation is removed from our cars.

In addition to the frustration of having my torque reduced to safeguard my powertrain, my battery has also been capped in regards to my charging speed. My car will not charge past 108kw, even when all Supercharger stalls are empty and I am at a V2 station. Obviously this is due to me driving/charging daily. I understand trying to protect the cars power train and battery, but when I purchased the car I was very specific about the amount of driving I do daily and I was never warned that charging each day will cap my car, no were any of us told not to floor the car. To me this is simply a case of false/deceptive advertising. The stats we all read online or at the dealer when purchasing the car are very misleading, as I bought a car that is supposed to accelerate and charge per their advertised rates. Now I find myself with a very expensive car that does not accelerate nor charge at the rates advertised.

Sincerely,

Duane A.

 

[Cuttin]

I had the shudder fix a few months ago. With the new clevis mount. Shudder is gone. I THINK I still have same power but never thought about it. That would be clever but very deceptive fix.

I have a 2017 75d. Will try to time my 0-60.

 

[ElectricSteve]

1st poster here, and unfortunately the reason for my 1st post is..... you are correct! I recently had my 1/2 shafts replaced and Clevis Mount added per the service bulletin https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10162295-9999.pdf and I immediately noticed a reduction in torque.

Snipped the rest out, no need to repeat.

What is it with you Americans and always suing suing suing. These cars are insanely power-full, can rip axles apart when exposed to the full brunt of these motors and the manufacturer HAD to reduce power to keep things in one piece. Those axles are not made out of some space-alien-unobtanium-alloy. It's just too much for the materials used. Using materials that can actually sustain such loads would make the cars much more expensive. Hypercars use these

Besides the materials/alloys used in those axles, there is the issue with the axle-joint. In ride-height modes other than low/very low, the angle of the axle-joints is too steep. I understand that. I therefore do not reasonably expect full power to be available in modes other than low/very low.
I have no conformation of this at all (it's all level "rumours") but the theorie exists that later on, Tesla found out it's still too much oomph so they reduced the torque the front motor puts out some more, to not damage the car. I'd rather have a car that stays in one piece than one that rips itself apart by overdoing it. But that's just my logic.

To be fair, Tesla made a design mistake by putting too much strain on the materials used and designing the axle-angle in higher ride modes to be too steep from day one. I fully agree on that. But they recognised their mistake and made an adjustment (reducing the max. load on some components).
And they should not have sold the car the way they did, by claiming it can embarrass exotic sports cars at the drag-strip during the lifetime of the vehicle. Do stunts like that too often and the car will get damaged.

What do you think you will gain from suing Tesla? Answer: nothing technical will happen, nothing will improve. The problem WILL NOT BE SOLVED. Those axles are not going to be replaced by some rainbow sh*tting unicorn manure magic alloy.

I know I will get a lot of flak for this but I don't care: Threatening to sue is so American. Sue McDonalds when some idiot pours hot coffee on herself. Sue after putting a pet in the microwave, killing it (no sh*t sherlock). Suing Tesla for "unintended acceleration events" which all of Europe knows do not exist (the car cannot do this due to it's very design), but some folks in the USA believe in it so badly (to cover up their own stupid behaviour, swapping the brakepedal for the accelerator-pedal) and if you tell yourself a bullsh*t story often enough, you will start to believe in it.
The USA has become one large legal kindergarten. In Europe, you will not see these kinds of law-suits. But then again, we don't have the greedy asshole lawyers using "no cure no pay" money-making-models, providing perverse incentives to win cases at any cost. All one needs to do is convince a bunch of half-wits on jury-duty. Something that some lawyers are really good at (I always see this picture of this sleezeball lawyer Ken in Breaking Bad with that licenseplate "Ken wins" on his BMW).

Do what you gotta do. Go get'em.

 

[ElectricSteve]

New information on the Shudder issue: The shudder problem: Current status (end of February 2020)

 

[Cuttin]

New information on the Shudder issue: The shudder problem: Current status (end of February 2020)

VERY informative Steve! Thanks.

 

[ReGenesis]

A little sensitive are we ElectricSteve......If you are so anti-American please return your American made car. Also, if I pay $150k for a car and it is advertised to accelerate at a certain speed and charge at a certain speed yet it does not, am supposed to just accept it.......ElectricSteve?

What is it with you Americans and always suing suing suing. These cars are insanely power-full, can rip axles apart when exposed to the full brunt of these motors and the manufacturer HAD to reduce power to keep things in one piece. Those axles are not made out of some space-alien-unobtanium-alloy. It's just too much for the materials used. Using materials that can actually sustain such loads would make the cars much more expensive. Hypercars use these

Besides the materials/alloys used in those axles, there is the issue with the axle-joint. In ride-height modes other than low/very low, the angle of the axle-joints is too steep. I understand that. I therefore do not reasonably expect full power to be available in modes other than low/very low.
I have no conformation of this at all (it's all level "rumours") but the theorie exists that later on, Tesla found out it's still too much oomph so they reduced the torque the front motor puts out some more, to not damage the car. I'd rather have a car that stays in one piece than one that rips itself apart by overdoing it. But that's just my logic.

To be fair, Tesla made a design mistake by putting too much strain on the materials used and designing the axle-angle in higher ride modes to be too steep from day one. I fully agree on that. But they recognised their mistake and made an adjustment (reducing the max. load on some components).
And they should not have sold the car the way they did, by claiming it can embarrass exotic sports cars at the drag-strip during the lifetime of the vehicle. Do stunts like that too often and the car will get damaged.

What do you think you will gain from suing Tesla? Answer: nothing technical will happen, nothing will improve. The problem WILL NOT BE SOLVED. Those axles are not going to be replaced by some rainbow sh*tting unicorn manure magic alloy.

I know I will get a lot of flak for this but I don't care: Threatening to sue is so American. Sue McDonalds when some idiot pours hot coffee on herself. Sue after putting a pet in the microwave, killing it (no sh*t sherlock). Suing Tesla for "unintended acceleration events" which all of Europe knows do not exist (the car cannot do this due to it's very design), but some folks in the USA believe in it so badly (to cover up their own stupid behaviour, swapping the brakepedal for the accelerator-pedal) and if you tell yourself a bullsh*t story often enough, you will start to believe in it.
The USA has become one large legal kindergarten. In Europe, you will not see these kinds of law-suits. But then again, we don't have the greedy asshole lawyers using "no cure no pay" money-making-models, providing perverse incentives to win cases at any cost. All one needs to do is convince a bunch of half-wits on jury-duty. Something that some lawyers are really good at (I always see this picture of this sleezeball lawyer Ken in Breaking Bad with that licenseplate "Ken wins" on his BMW).

Do what you gotta do. Go get'em.

 

[ElectricSteve]

I love my American built car mate. Not one hair on my bald head that thinks about returning it.

Why don‘t YOU return your car. After all, it‘s not the rainbow farting unicorn that you thought you had purchased.....ReGenesis?

Batteries wear. If they are charged at very high speed too often, the battery management system will start capping the charging-speed to protect the battery at some point. This is completely normal, certainly not specific to Tesla EV‘s and should be common knowledge for an EV driver. It‘s called the „supercharger nerf“ in Tesla lingo. My old mid-2014 Model S85 got nerfed after 5 years and around 200000km (125000miles) on the clock. I knew that day would come someday because I informed myself about EV specifics when I bought the car.
I don‘t need nor expect a sales-rep. to explain every little thing there is to know to me. I‘ll inform myself about new technology (in 2014 I was an EV greenhorn just like the next person).
Saying „nobody told me“ is just blaming someone else and not taking responsibility for his/her own lack of action (getting informed in this case). It‘s like saying „nobody told me I should not throw diesel into a petrol car“ or „nobody told me one cannot put a pet in a microwave to dry it after walking the dog in the rain“.

I cannot take someone seriously that beats the crap out of his car at every stoplight and then expects it to stay in one piece.

 

[VikH]

Hello Mike,

1st poster here, and unfortunately the reason for my 1st post is..... you are correct! I recently had my 1/2 shafts replaced and Clevis Mount added per the service bulletin https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10162295-9999.pdf and I immediately noticed a reduction in torque. It is especially noticeable when accelerating from a dead start, or when I am on the freeway trying to pass people. I have a late 2018 P100D with 70K miles so I have an immense amount of time behind the wheel of a 1.5yr old car. I drive 200+ miles each day and I definitely have a lead foot, hence my purchase of the performance version.

I have searched endlessly on this topic over the last few weeks as I knew I my car performed differently from when I dropped it off at the SC for the update but before I addressed with my SC I wanted to have all my ducks in a row. A few things I found when doing research:

• Apparently when the service update occurs there is a firmware update as well, which reduces the torque upon initial acceleration. I found this from a post by @deletescam May 28 2019.
• Supposedly when the car is in Low or Very Low this reduction in torque is not supposed to occur. I only drive on Low so this is not the case. I was able to find this info from several posts on this forum.

Perhaps this is something we need to collectively bring to the attention of TESLA as I am FURIOUS! I have lost performance and it makes it even worse that there was no mention of this firmware update by my SC, nor was it listed in my Service Agreement after I picked up the car. Not sure if Jon McNeill @JonMc is still President of Global Sales and Service but I read a post from 2017 where @Tech_Guy stated he and others experienced reductions of power and they had to select 'Max Battery' to enable full Ludicrous power. Tech_Guy was able to prove the power reductions and added @JonMc to the thread, and 11 months later TESLA reversed the software update. I also read that another owner @azdryheat filed a lawsuit via Arizona Attorney General. Unfortunately this may be the route we need to go. Hopefully we hear from Jon and this software limitation is removed from our cars.

In addition to the frustration of having my torque reduced to safeguard my powertrain, my battery has also been capped in regards to my charging speed. My car will not charge past 108kw, even when all Supercharger stalls are empty and I am at a V2 station. Obviously this is due to me driving/charging daily. I understand trying to protect the cars power train and battery, but when I purchased the car I was very specific about the amount of driving I do daily and I was never warned that charging each day will cap my car, no were any of us told not to floor the car. To me this is simply a case of false/deceptive advertising. The stats we all read online or at the dealer when purchasing the car are very misleading, as I bought a car that is supposed to accelerate and charge per their advertised rates. Now I find myself with a very expensive car that does not accelerate nor charge at the rates advertised.

Sincerely,

Duane A.

Where is the proof? Do you have peak power outputs prior to the firmware and post firmware? My car does not seem slower to me.

FYI, Jon McNeil is no longer with Tesla.

Regarding Supercharging, there are a few 100 pack owners that have noticed reduction in charging speed after high Supercharging usage.

 

[Kristoffer Helle]

I have a thread on this.
Tesla says my car won't go over 231kmt because I just had 70% SOC.
Didn't help when I charged it to 85 or 90..
"BMS is protecting your battery".
So I asked for new appointment this week.
I will update my thread soon.
Nice to have some facts from Tesla on this.

 

[Vicla]

@ElectricSteve how are you so sure the shudder is caused under aggressive driving and not normal driving conditions?

It doesn’t sound like these cars are being drag raced every weekend. Do AMG GLS and M7 also have this issue that you seem to expect? These are advertised as performance vehicles. The least it could do is perform.

What is it with you Americans and always suing suing suing. These cars are insanely power-full, can rip axles apart when exposed to the full brunt of these motors and the manufacturer HAD to reduce power to keep things in one piece. Those axles are not made out of some space-alien-unobtanium-alloy. It's just too much for the materials used. Using materials that can actually sustain such loads would make the cars much more expensive. Hypercars use these

Besides the materials/alloys used in those axles, there is the issue with the axle-joint. In ride-height modes other than low/very low, the angle of the axle-joints is too steep. I understand that. I therefore do not reasonably expect full power to be available in modes other than low/very low.
I have no conformation of this at all (it's all level "rumours") but the theorie exists that later on, Tesla found out it's still too much oomph so they reduced the torque the front motor puts out some more, to not damage the car. I'd rather have a car that stays in one piece than one that rips itself apart by overdoing it. But that's just my logic.

To be fair, Tesla made a design mistake by putting too much strain on the materials used and designing the axle-angle in higher ride modes to be too steep from day one. I fully agree on that. But they recognised their mistake and made an adjustment (reducing the max. load on some components).
And they should not have sold the car the way they did, by claiming it can embarrass exotic sports cars at the drag-strip during the lifetime of the vehicle. Do stunts like that too often and the car will get damaged.

What do you think you will gain from suing Tesla? Answer: nothing technical will happen, nothing will improve. The problem WILL NOT BE SOLVED. Those axles are not going to be replaced by some rainbow sh*tting unicorn manure magic alloy.

I know I will get a lot of flak for this but I don't care: Threatening to sue is so American. Sue McDonalds when some idiot pours hot coffee on herself. Sue after putting a pet in the microwave, killing it (no sh*t sherlock). Suing Tesla for "unintended acceleration events" which all of Europe knows do not exist (the car cannot do this due to it's very design), but some folks in the USA believe in it so badly (to cover up their own stupid behaviour, swapping the brakepedal for the accelerator-pedal) and if you tell yourself a bullsh*t story often enough, you will start to believe in it.
The USA has become one large legal kindergarten. In Europe, you will not see these kinds of law-suits. But then again, we don't have the greedy asshole lawyers using "no cure no pay" money-making-models, providing perverse incentives to win cases at any cost. All one needs to do is convince a bunch of half-wits on jury-duty. Something that some lawyers are really good at (I always see this picture of this sleezeball lawyer Ken in Breaking Bad with that licenseplate "Ken wins" on his BMW).

Do what you gotta do. Go get'em.

 

[Vicla]

Sorry X7

@ElectricSteve how are you so sure the shudder is caused under aggressive driving and not normal driving conditions?

It doesn’t sound like these cars are being drag raced every weekend. Do AMG GLS and M7 also have this issue that you seem to expect? These are advertised as performance vehicles. The least it could do is perform.

 

[ElectricSteve]

@ElectricSteve how are you so sure the shudder is caused under aggressive driving and not normal driving conditions?

In the beginning, the Problem starts to become noticeable when applying a lot of torque. In other words, stomping it. Over time, and that has become the case with my car, the shudder also manifests itself under medium acceleration. My car has around 10000km on the clock currently and I now already feel the shudder when driving uphill or during medium acceleration in general. It's a sign of "something" (I suspect U-Joints) on the half-shafts being worn to the point where it requires less torque to become noticeable.

I say U-Joints because that's the most logical to me. The steeper the angle (suspension raised), the stronger the shudder is. Put the car down ("low" or "very low") and the shudder is much less severe because the entire shaft is more "straight", thus the tension on the U-joints is a lot less.

 

[VikH]

In the beginning, the Problem starts to become noticeable when applying a lot of torque. In other words, stomping it. Over time, and that has become the case with my car, the shudder also manifests itself under medium acceleration. My car has around 10000km on the clock currently and I now already feel the shudder when driving uphill or during medium acceleration in general. It's a sign of "something" (I suspect U-Joints) on the half-shafts being worn to the point where it requires less torque to become noticeable.

I say U-Joints because that's the most logical to me. The steeper the angle (suspension raised), the stronger the shudder is. Put the car down ("low" or "very low") and the shudder is much less severe because the entire shaft is more "straight", thus the tension on the U-joints is a lot less.

Why not drive the car in Low all the time? I have done this since day 1.

 

[ElectricSteve]

Why not drive the car in Low all the time? I have done this since day 1.

I have. Since day one. But the shudder has started at low now too.

 

[Vicla]

You will prematurely wear out the tires if you ride on low.

Why not drive the car in Low all the time? I have done this since day 1.

 

[ElectricSteve]

You will prematurely wear out the tires if you ride on low.

On „very low“ yes. On „low“, in my experience, not.

 

[VikH]

You will prematurely wear out the tires if you ride on low.

I had slight camber wear on my set of 20" wheels and I usually drive in Very Low susp locally.