Refresh Model S/X yoke controls owners survey

[danp]

50 submissions so far, thanks everyone! Some interesting patterns emerging.

Let's see if we can get to a 100 so there is a decent enough sample size. Then I'll share some analysis as well as the raw data.

Tesla Model S/X Yoke Controls - Owners Survey

 

[MsLynda]

Just finished a 32 day roadtrip across US and eastern Canada in my 2022 MX refresh. You will get used to the yoke, in fact I miss it when I drive my 2017 MS.

 

[danp]

Just finished a 32 day roadtrip across US and eastern Canada in my 2022 MX refresh. You will get used to the yoke, in fact I miss it when I drive my 2017 MS.

Great to hear that! Any chance you could take a minute to fill out the survey? We're at 68 submissions, hoping to get to a 100 before sharing results here.

Tesla Model S/X Yoke Controls - Owners Survey

 

[danp]

Well, the responses have slowed down so I put together some quick analysis and results. Some highlights:

• Refresh model S/X owners come primarily from older MS/MX or performance ICE vehicles
• People seem get used to the controls with more miles driven
• Those that like the controls less are more likely to buy something else next time
• The critical minority is louder than those that are mostly satisfied

Details here, including free form comments. Let me know if you see any issues or can't access the doc.

I did this for my own curiosity, and to help me decide whether to keep my P85D+ for a few more years or pull the trigger on a new MS LR. I'm doing the former.

 

[zoomer0056]

Well, the responses have slowed down so I put together some quick analysis and results. Some highlights:

• Refresh model S/X owners come primarily from older MS/MX or performance ICE vehicles
• People seem get used to the controls with more miles driven
• Those that like the controls less are more likely to buy something else next time
• The critical minority is louder than those that are mostly satisfied

Details here, including free form comments. Let me know if you see any issues or can't access the doc.

I did this for my own curiosity, and to help me decide whether to keep my P85D+ for a few more years or pull the trigger on a new MS LR. I'm doing the former.

Link only shows one picture, nothing else.

 

[danp]

Link only shows one picture, nothing else.

It's a slide deck, click on it or use the arrow keys to move between pages.

 

[SDRick]

Thanks for your efforts, pretty decent survey and better than most!

Hopefully Tesla can put it to some good use as well.

 

[danp]

Thanks for your efforts, pretty decent survey and better than most!

Hopefully Tesla can put it to some good use as well.

Thanks! Very low effort, hopefully it helps others make a more informed decision.

 

[danp]

Latest results, inline this time.

 

[danp]

86 responses now, here's one last update.

People seem to like the yoke and the gear selection mechanism, but the capacitive controls not so much in particular the horn. The ratings do get more positive overall with more miles driven.

Around 70% would buy another refresh Model S/X, and 20% would go with a non Tesla EV. Not surprisingly there is a correlation between negative feelings about the yoke and the controls and intending to replace the car with something else.

Those that rarely or never use Autopilot like the yoke/controls less than those that use it more frequently.

Details in this shared Google slides deck, just click or use the arrow keys to move through the pages:

Model S/X Yoke Owners Survey

 

[Mark II]

86 responses now, here's one last update.

People seem to like the yoke and the gear selection mechanism, but the capacitive controls not so much in particular the horn. The ratings do get more positive overall with more miles driven.

Around 70% would buy another refresh Model S/X, and 20% would go with a non Tesla EV. Not surprisingly there is a correlation between negative feelings about the yoke and the controls and intending to replace the car with something else.

Those that rarely or never use Autopilot like the yoke/controls less than those that use it more frequently.

Details in this shared Google slides deck, just click or use the arrow keys to move through the pages:

Model S/X Yoke Owners Survey

I think the more miles driven could also be conflated with the type of driving they mostly do. I.e. I think people that mostly do freeway driving like the yoke more than those that mostly do city street driving. The same with Autopilot vs FSD.

For me the yoke is ok with autopilot and freeway driving, however it is terrible for FSD and city street driving. The problem is I hardly do freeway driving, which is why my score would be one of the low ones with less miles.

My point is, I don't think people like it more when they have driven more miles. I think it is really about the type of driving that makes the biggest difference.

I have had my car for 5 months, and I dislike the yoke, buttons, and gear shift more now than I did when I first got it.

 

[mswlogo]

Well, the responses have slowed down so I put together some quick analysis and results. Some highlights:

• Refresh model S/X owners come primarily from older MS/MX or performance ICE vehicles
• People seem get used to the controls with more miles driven
• Those that like the controls less are more likely to buy something else next time
• The critical minority is louder than those that are mostly satisfied

Details here, including free form comments. Let me know if you see any issues or can't access the doc.

I did this for my own curiosity, and to help me decide whether to keep my P85D+ for a few more years or pull the trigger on a new MS LR. I'm doing the former.

Your survey clearly shows Yoke is not a problem for most after they get some miles in.

Also folks might be considering something different than Tesla regardless of the Yoke.

You also lumped all buttons together. Horn is the main issue. Blinkers are fine and I prefer them.

So why bother with the Survey if you are just gonna ignore what it says.

The louder "critical minority" tend to fill out surveys so they can be louder, make their criticism known !!

Good job on the Survey.

 

[Ranger29]

Thanks! My hope is that we can get to a 100 submissions, and then we can slice the results and maybe find some interesting patterns. Or at the very least, show a more accurate perspective on the yoke/etc to balance with the polarized strong opinions in the various threads here.

Dan .... where can I see the survey result?
Nevermind...I found it!

 

[Boza]

Took the survey, I love the yoke steering! I used to fly when I was much younger, now I can relive my past without takeoffs and landings.

If you have ever piloted a plane with the yoke you would know that the yoke on a plane is very, very different from the Tesla yoke.
If you have ever driven a car with a yoke (e.g. F1 or similar) you would know that their yoke is very, very different from the Tesla yoke.
Humans are adaptive creatures. That does not mean that every change is for the better. I am yet to hear exactly what problem Tesla yoke solves for all the issues it creates.

 

[Boza]

Your survey has “winners bias”. You selected only people who already bought refreshed S/X which means that they already had some acceptance of the yoke. Additionally, people who own the yoke have subconscious pressure to like it. Even then you received only 52% strong like…
To gather real data you must include the entire population - everyone who had interaction with the yoke. As defined now, you are missing people who decided not to buy (after testing it) or sold it because of the yoke. That would bring the “like” even lower.
For example, I have 2020 Raven and seriously considered trading it in for refreshed S (it was only a few months old when the refresh came out). Spending a long weekend and close to 1,000 miles with the yoke extinguished all desire to change. I am super happy now that I got one of the latest Ravens.
By definition, my input would be excluded from the survey even though I had experience with the yoke.

 

[mswlogo]

Your survey has “winners bias”. You selected only people who already bought refreshed S/X which means that they already had some acceptance of the yoke. Additionally, people who own the yoke have subconscious pressure to like it. Even then you received only 52% strong like…
To gather real data you must include the entire population - everyone who had interaction with the yoke. As defined now, you are missing people who decided not to buy (after testing it) or sold it because of the yoke. That would bring the “like” even lower.
For example, I have 2020 Raven and seriously considered trading it in for refreshed S (it was only a few months old when the refresh came out). Spending a long weekend and close to 1,000 miles with the yoke extinguished all desire to change. I am super happy now that I got one of the latest Ravens.
By definition, my input would be excluded from the survey even though I had experience with the yoke.

Takes longer than a weekend on the highway to get used to the yoke. In fact if you were doing that much highway I’m surprised you concluded it’s not for you. Because the difference on the highway is so small and where the yoke probably shines the most.

I think folks that need an excuse to not spend money upgrading their current Teslas use the the Yoke as their justification.

 

[danp]

Your survey has “winners bias”. You selected only people who already bought refreshed S/X which means that they already had some acceptance of the yoke. Additionally, people who own the yoke have subconscious pressure to like it. Even then you received only 52% strong like…
To gather real data you must include the entire population - everyone who had interaction with the yoke. As defined now, you are missing people who decided not to buy (after testing it) or sold it because of the yoke. That would bring the “like” even lower.
For example, I have 2020 Raven and seriously considered trading it in for refreshed S (it was only a few months old when the refresh came out). Spending a long weekend and close to 1,000 miles with the yoke extinguished all desire to change. I am super happy now that I got one of the latest Ravens.
By definition, my input would be excluded from the survey even though I had experience with the yoke.

My goal was specifically to learn how existing or previous owners felt about the yoke/etc, whether sentiment improves with time/miles, and whether there might be other potential correlations. There isn't really a large enough sample size of non owner who've tried the yoke given that Tesla doesn't offer test drives.

The survey results do indicate that people generally feel more positive about the yoke with more miles driven, although not as much about some of the capacitive controls, especially the horn.

It's certainly possible that the increased positive sentiment (about the yoke) with more miles driven is self delusion, but to extent perception is reality so it doesn't really matter. I got what I wanted from the survey, and it helped me decide to cancel my MS order and stick with my P85D until Tesla improves some of the yoke-based controls or there are better options on the market.

It wasn't just the survey, though, I did rent a Plaid on Turo for a day, and if I had to describe my impression of the yoke, the capacitive controls, and the semi-auto gear selection in one word, it would be awkward. Never realized how much I like a steering wheel, especially one wrapped in genuine leather, until I got back into my car afterwards.

 

[mswlogo]

I’ve never even used the auto gear selection.

I really like the gear selection and changing gear BEFORE I even finish from the previous direction. Kind of feels like riding a clutch on a hill. So there is actually zero added delay for things like 3 pt turns.

I even went hunting for the blinker buttons on my wife’s volt the other day because it’s become so second nature.

Miles do matter. Lot’s of them. I’m at 6k miles 6 months.

 

[Boza]

Takes longer than a weekend on the highway to get used to the yoke. In fact if you were doing that much highway I’m surprised you concluded it’s not for you. Because the difference on the highway is so small and where the yoke probably shines the most.

I think folks that need an excuse to not spend money upgrading their current Teslas use the the Yoke as their justification.

I would say that probably ~1/4 of the miles were city driving where the yoke was almost unusable. Sharper turns cause you to cross your hands; 3-way turn is a nightmare; forget about turning and backing. The buttons are too sensitive - I touched them too many times. Turn signals are in weird locations and impossible to use while the yoke is not straight without looking. Good luck finding the horn in emergency!
The other 1/4 was twisty mountain roads where it was, honestly, scary. A wheel allows for unlimited number of hands positions to accommodate for various turns. With the yoke it was a constant mental exercise to figure out where to put my hands - while trying to focus on the road.
On the highway it was somewhat awkward but OK - in terms that I did not see any benefit over the wheel.
If I have to point at one thing that would make a huge difference and make me reconsider is the variable steering. If, instead of the standard 2 1/2 linear steering that all cars with wheels have, Tesla switches to 1/2 steering (like F1, for example) then all the issues with buttons, placing hands, etc. would go away. Not being able to place the hands wherever you want would still be an issue but a minor one.
So, from my perspective, the yoke is half-baked and Tesla did not go all the way. The result is a much worse experience than the traditional wheel.

 

[Boza]

My goal was specifically to learn how existing or previous owners felt about the yoke/etc, whether sentiment improves with time/miles, and whether there might be other potential correlations. There isn't really a large enough sample size of non owner who've tried the yoke given that Tesla doesn't offer test drives.

The survey results do indicate that people generally feel more positive about the yoke with more miles driven, although not as much about some of the capacitive controls, especially the horn.

It's certainly possible that the increased positive sentiment (about the yoke) with more miles driven is self delusion, but to extent perception is reality so it doesn't really matter. I got what I wanted from the survey, and it helped me decide to cancel my MS order and stick with my P85D until Tesla improves some of the yoke-based controls or there are better options on the market.

It wasn't just the survey, though, I did rent a Plaid on Turo for a day, and if I had to describe my impression of the yoke, the capacitive controls, and the semi-auto gear selection in one word, it would be awkward. Never realized how much I like a steering wheel, especially one wrapped in genuine leather, until I got back into my car afterwards.

So long as you are aware of the limitations from the sample set you are fine.
The yoke is not an issue per se; it is Tesla’s implementation. If properly implemented (1/2 turn), in the right environment (e.g. track car), it actually has advantages over the wheel. But the way they did it (2 1/2 turns), in a family sedan (even SUV) - it is weird.
As much as I admire them for what they did and continue doing, in many cases they ignore significant body of knowledge on the matter just “to be different”. That is not innovation; it is lack of maturity.