Refresh rear camber adjustment

[sorka]

Don't know if anyone has noticed this yet, but the way that the upper rear arms are mounted to the upper cradle, it should be possible to remove excess negative camber with a shim between the bracket and the cradle.

The previous design had the bushing mount tabs integrated directly into the casting but the new design bolts laterally into the casting. They've also gone to a turnbuckle tie rod style toe adjustment which will give a far more toe range than possible with the previous design. The control arms are now forged instead of cast. Overall this is a massive leap forward over the old suspension.

The previous design:

 

[bionichomer]

Did you ever end up shimming the rear upper control arms? Curious what size shims/washers and if you switched to a longer bolt.

 

[cmarshack]

Did you ever end up shimming the rear upper control arms? Curious what size shims/washers and if you switched to a longer bolt.

Same, I would like to know if anyone has done this too.

 

[sorka]

Did you ever end up shimming the rear upper control arms? Curious what size shims/washers and if you switched to a longer bolt.

Haven't done anything yet. Just got my MXP back from service after several months. Took delivery on 4/7 and it wasn't usable until last week.....100 days after I took delivery.

They did the alignment and my rear at low is currently an even -1.5 degrees so I think I still want to take that in a little and shoot for -1.2. Figure I'll wait some to see if any third party reputable companies come up with a solution, but given the new design, it shouldn't require new arms, just properly engineered shims.

 

[bionichomer]

What

Haven't done anything yet. Just got my MXP back from service after several months. Took delivery on 4/7 and it wasn't usable until last week.....100 days after I took delivery.

They did the alignment and my rear at low is currently an even -1.5 degrees so I think I still want to take that in a little and shoot for -1.2. Figure I'll wait some to see if any third party reputable companies come up with a solution, but given the new design, it shouldn't require new arms, just properly engineered shims.

April 7th!? What happened that took 100 days in service? Hope they fixed all issues flagged.

 

[sorka]

What

April 7th!? What happened that took 100 days in service? Hope they fixed all issues flagged.

Not all

 

[shingles]

@sorka curious if you've done anything regarding the rear camber?

 

[sorka]

@sorka curious if you've done anything regarding the rear camber?

There aren't any options yet although when they arrive they should be simpler and cheaper with the new design allowing for simple shim.

That said, my rear camber is -1.5 on both rears in low and my tire wear has actually been even in to out so I'm going to run the first set of tire to the their end before deciding if I need any sort of correction.

For my P85D, which I just sold, I did have upper adjustable arms to bring the camber from -2 or so down to -1.2 on each side.

 

[shingles]

There aren't any options yet although when they arrive they should be simpler and cheaper with the new design allowing for simple shim.

That said, my rear camber is -1.5 on both rears in low and my tire wear has actually been even in to out so I'm going to run the first set of tire to the their end before deciding if I need any sort of correction.

For my P85D, which I just sold, I did have upper adjustable arms to bring the camber from -2 or so down to -1.2 on each side.

I am about to take delivery of an MXP... I guess I'll have the alignment at least checked out and see what it looks like on low. The N2itive set is supposed to ship in Oct. Hopefully the alignment checks out, but if not, Oct isn't that far.

 

[sorka]

I am about to take delivery of an MXP... I guess I'll have the alignment at least checked out and see what it looks like on low. The N2itive set is supposed to ship in Oct. Hopefully the alignment checks out, but if not, Oct isn't that far.

The factory alignment on all refresh Xs has been horrid. It will be off. Some have said they don't actually do alignments at the factory.

 

[sorka]

There aren't any options yet although when they arrive they should be simpler and cheaper with the new design allowing for simple shim.

That said, my rear camber is -1.5 on both rears in low and my tire wear has actually been even in to out so I'm going to run the first set of tire to the their end before deciding if I need any sort of correction.

For my P85D, which I just sold, I did have upper adjustable arms to bring the camber from -2 or so down to -1.2 on each side.

So my rear camber is actually -2.5. I turns out that during the first alignment, they left it on the highest setting. Just had the alignment redone and they had to fix the front and rear toe massively because it had been adjusted for max ride height.

Getting tired of waiting for a company to release this obvious simple design. Thinking about tinkercadding it and then sending it out to a metal 3d printer. I need to source longer bolts that are compatible.

 

[cmarshack]

I am still interested/curious about this.
I almost wonder if you could just slip washers behind the bracket to shim it? Any reason you might need actual custom shims?

 

[sorka]

I am still interested/curious about this.
I almost wonder if you could just slip washers behind the bracket to shim it? Any reason you might need actual custom shims?

You could but I wouldn't do it long term. I probably will so I can figure out how thick it needs to be in order to take 1 degree out. In theory I can use some basic trig to do that but I'd rather know for sure. I might also have several different thicknesses printed.

 

[xEvoLveDx]

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[sorka]

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That's cool. I'll submit a "quote" but not holding out much hope since they don't actually have the product on their site with pricing. No mention of the kit including the proper bolts which need to be longer than stock.

Additionally, they don't ship anything. You can only buy if you're local.

 

[cmarshack]

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I just sent a message and hope I can get in there and have these installed/aligned since I just bought all new tires!

 

[xEvoLveDx]

I just sent a message and hope I can get in there and have these installed/aligned since I just bought all new tires!

Let us know the price and results. Hopefully they give you before and after numbers on alignment

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I am still interested/curious about this.
I almost wonder if you could just slip washers behind the bracket to shim it? Any reason you might need actual custom shims?

You would be much safer with shims that provide the same amount of coverage for the mating surfaces. Washers won't give you that.

You could buy some small sheets of various thickness metal at Home Depot, cut them to shape and drill holes for the bolts and then stack them to give you what you need for offset. That would be a lot better than washers.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

The more I think about it, this is a great idea by the OP.

I have owned other cars that use shims to tune the alignment, so it's a legit approach. The bolts that hold in the upper control arm are huge and have a ton of thread, so you can probably get a lot a lot of adjustment before you need to change to longer bolts.

You can see just how many threads are engaged in the N2itive installation video. In this screenshot from their installation video, he had just backed out the bolt all the way, so you can see how many threads are engaged normally, and it's a lot. You don't need much adjustment to make a significant difference in camber given the location of the arm on the hub which is attached very near the center of the wheel.

I do like the idea of using washers initially to determine how thick the shims need to be, and then making proper shims out of sheet metal to match the thickness needed.

Don't tell N2itive. They won't like this idea at all because it's very bad for business.

 

[cmarshack]

Let us know the price and results. Hopefully they give you before and after numbers on alignment

Price is $500, including install and alignment. I asked what the alignment kit looks includes, and specifically said I really don't want to pay a few hundred bucks for some washers. They said the shims "will look like washers".

Curious to hear how thick these "shims" need to be.

Here is a screenshot of parts3xpress's video and you can sort of see the shim behind the upper control arm mount. I hear what others are saying about it needing to match the mating surface, but round really is the mating surface. I think the biggest consideration would be material. If it's aluminum on aluminum, you will not want to use steel washers/spacers.

I may just bite the bullet and have parts3xpress do the alignment with their spacers, but I want to see them first.